Diesel fuel additive.

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
The #2 diesel, which I buy at the local Cenex fuel stop, is premium diesel, which is 5 cents more for the additive over regular fuel. And, yes, there is a rather clear difference between the two. The premium runs noticeably "crisper" esp. in the older 1.6 indirects with 23 to 1 compression. My alh's love it also. Even if I "grand dadded" around (like so many of these guys seem to do here!) I could tell the difference. As it is, I keep the deposits off the top of the pistons.
The local Cenex stations here are a lot more than 5 cents higher for their (only choice) "premium" diesel (Roadmaster?) anytime of the year in comparison to the other stations available. I've never experienced any difference when I've had to buy it and I hardly ever fill up unless the tank is very close to empty.
 

GlowBugTDI

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Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). 01 original Glow Bug TDI (sold)
Don't have any winter additive on hand until tomorrow, and when I woke up this morning it was -20. While the glow plugs were cycling a few times I threw some atf in the tank to add some lubricity. After tomorrow I'll be running additive while it's so cold for the lubricative properties.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Don't have any winter additive on hand until tomorrow, and when I woke up this morning it was -20. While the glow plugs were cycling a few times I threw some atf in the tank to add some lubricity. After tomorrow I'll be running additive while it's so cold for the lubricative properties.
Why do you feel the need for more lubricity when it's cold??
Over the many years my biggest concern with cold temperatures was water contamination in the fuel. Some additives do a better job and\or have a different way of dealing with water than other types\brands. While gelling was not much of a concern with appropriate fuel buying until severely cold, even minute water contamination could get you into trouble at relatively barely below freezing.
Right or wrong, I had subscribed to the Power Service theory\method of water control. Seems either the fuel was better than expected or the additive worked. Maybe both....
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). 01 original Glow Bug TDI (sold)
Why do you feel the need for more lubricity when it's cold??
Over the many years my biggest concern with cold temperatures was water contamination in the fuel. Some additives do a better job and\or have a different way of dealing with water than other types\brands. While gelling was not much of a concern with appropriate fuel buying until severely cold, even minute water contamination could get you into trouble at relatively barely below freezing.
Right or wrong, I had subscribed to the Power Service theory\method of water control. Seems either the fuel was better than expected or the additive worked. Maybe both....
Mostly because people tell me winter fuel has less lubrication properties, and that when its really cold its hard on everything. I'm not actually sure as I don't know anything about winter fuel, but thats what i do. I used to think that the colder it is the "thicker" the fuel would be and it may add even more protection, but thats not what I hear and since I don't know any better I play it safe. I know that these cars were designed before ULSD, so I try to protect the pump in the cold winter weeks. Who knows if it actually does anything. Many people are a lot more protective of their tdi's than me and I'm generally on the side "eh its fine, don't worry about it", but this is something I do when it gets below 5-10 degrees or so.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Could be some merit to that line of thought depending on how the winter fuel you are getting is treated, whether they are blending with #1, using additives to achieve it or a combination of (see the poster image posted earlier). #1 fuel obviously has somewhat less lubricity than regular diesel but if they are also\instead using additives such as Power Service then it's probably brought up to standards. And there are specifications that fuel must meet for lubricity (think common rail HPFP) so I figure if it's safe to run thru those finicky expensive systems it's going to be fine for my old school VE injection pump.
Stay warm and safe and the fuel flowing. Weather service shows an even -30°F up here this morning 😞
 

dieseldonato

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Location
Us
TDI
2001 jetta
Most the lubricity issues/ premature wear issues were seen on older vehicles/ equipment. Was kinda a rash of failures/ issues we saw for several years back in the early to mid 2000's. Anymore I can't say it's been any sort of real issue. I've worked on equipment with tens of thousands of hours on it, with original fuel system thats never seen a drop of additives outside of what the fuel supplier may add to the bulk tank. It's really a non issue anymore.
Won't hurt to add something, but I see no real reason to. At most I'll add something for freeze point adjustment to my personal fleet, if I know it still has some summer fuel in it. Besides that, it's whatever come out of the pump and worry about other things.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). 01 original Glow Bug TDI (sold)
Could be some merit to that line of thought depending on how the winter fuel you are getting is treated, whether they are blending with #1, using additives to achieve it or a combination of (see the poster image posted earlier). #1 fuel obviously has somewhat less lubricity than regular diesel but if they are also\instead using additives such as Power Service then it's probably brought up to standards. And there are specifications that fuel must meet for lubricity (think common rail HPFP) so I figure if it's safe to run thru those finicky expensive systems it's going to be fine for my old school VE injection pump.
Stay warm and safe and the fuel flowing. Weather service shows an even -30°F up here this morning 😞
Ok, thanks.
You as well! -20 or so here and i drove the bug 30min ran into the store for 10min and when I got back in the cold coolant light was on. Best part is I'm on my way to go work outside today😄.
 

J_dude

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
Since nobody has posted it yet, here is Project Farm’s video on additives:
Everybody I know has been telling me about it so I finally watched it last night. I don’t usually watch his videos because his voice is extremely annoying and his tests not very scientific but it was interesting info nonetheless.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
What I got out of his "tests" is most of the additives don't really do what they claim, don't do everything well and if it's cold enough to use\need them double or triple the dosage.
For the most part I don't waste money on additives and just buy fuel at places I've had good results with whenever I can, especially when it's seriously cold. And if I was driving my diesel when it's -30° (like it is here today) I would stop by the local distributor's retail pump and top off with some straight #1 fuel for good measure and safety sake. Temperature such as it is now in the remote rural areas can be deadly for the unprepared. Cold weather emergency clothes are always on board when I traveled as help and cell service can often be unavailable. Be careful out there, as they say....
 

Lightflyer1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
It's more of a problem for us in the deep South that don't have additives in the fuel at the pump and people aren't ready for it. We don't get temperatures that cold that often.

 
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jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
It's more of a problem for us in the deep South that don't have additives in the fuel at the pump and people aren't ready for it. We don't get temperatures that cold that often.

Are the cold weather additives available locally? Perhaps truck stop fueling stations will have additives available for the over the road haulers normally heading into areas where colder temperatures are normal.
With the recirculation of warm fuel back to the tank I think most of the VW system is pretty safe down to around 20°F even w\o additives.
I've run my tractor(s) with straight #2 untreated fuel down to well below freezing (20°ish) without gelling issues.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Additives are readily available at the usual places. Local parts, stores, Walmart, gas stations and such. But I got caught one time not putting it in and it got cold and it gelled up. So now I add it whenever it looks like it's going to get below 35. Just for insurance. The weather is nothing here compared to up North but occasionally we have to deal with it. Maybe every 5 or 10 years.
 

dieseldonato

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Location
Us
TDI
2001 jetta
Double and tipple treating with additives doesn't equal linear progress of effectiveness. Some if you over treat will actually act negatively and plug the fikter faster. Just use the reccomended amount, or better yet just add 30% kerosene and call it a day.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Not a very practical suggestion around here - kerosene is not available at the pumps, and is stupid expensive in 5 gallon pails.
Agree, although it seems a lot of times "kerosene" is used by many to signify #1 fuel. Very close, but not identical.
The local fuel distributor that also has retail pumps has kerosene at a pump but even at that it's quite expensive.
 

dieseldonato

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Mar 10, 2023
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Us
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2001 jetta
Agree, although it seems a lot of times "kerosene" is used by many to signify #1 fuel. Very close, but not identical.
The local fuel distributor that also has retail pumps has kerosene at a pump but even at that it's quite expensive.
No, I meant kerosene, not number 1 diesel. Couldn't tell you the last time I saw #1 called out at a pump that wasn't at a fuel depot or bulk tank.(probably because we switch to a water blend at the pumps like most places that get cold weather.) I can run 15 minutes from my house and get kerosene from the pump for ~$5.00 gallon. Can't do that for #1 diesel.
 

dieseldonato

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Mar 10, 2023
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Us
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2001 jetta
I have the option of either kerosene or #1. Not much advantage to kerosene other than extra cost of $1/gallon. Rarely have a need for either option.
Seeing where you're from makes sense that you would have #1 available. I was thinking more so where it doesn't normally get cold, they could still source kerosene fairly easily vs #1.
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
Seeing where you're from makes sense that you would have #1 available. I was thinking more so where it doesn't normally get cold, they could still source kerosene fairly easily vs #1.
Unfortunately kerosene is typically untaxed for road use... making things much more complicated.
 

prsa01

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Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
Just remember, kerosene and (I think) #1, act as a negative on lubricity. So adding something for lubrication, if you worry about that, may be needed even more.
 

dieseldonato

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Location
Us
TDI
2001 jetta
A summary as to why most fuel is treated with additives rather than "blending". I think their cost estimation of using kerosene or #1 is rather low but regardless:
Need to take articles like that with a grain of salt coming from a company that makes fuel additives.
States with mandated winter blend fuels, are a mix of #2 and #1, sometimes additives are used, most times not. Only time I've seen additives used, is when asked for by the customer (includes gas stations) when getting bulk tanks filled.
Price at the pump will have little to no difference, when they are mixing bulk batches. Small scale, you will see a difference. in such small quantities, for a short duration of time it's a minimal expense vs grabbing a product and hoping it works. As evident in the aforementioned video "test" additives very greatly in effectiveness.
Again not saying don't run an additive, just we've been blending fuels for a lot of years, very effectively before we had boutique additives and didn't have issues.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Yes, I also noted that the linked company made\sold additives but also that their estimated cost of "blended" fuel was low based on my costs.
At least some of the local retail stations use a combination like this one in the picture below that I took a while back. The former Holiday Station (now Circle K) used to post signage as to what the treated fuel flow temp was for during the various months of the cold season based on regional average lows. They also used a blend plus additives.
I think the bulk use of additives has become much more common as it's easier to adjust for regionally and as the season changes.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3JLGqqzz8tJQVkCA
I'm continuing to have frustrations with posting pictures here...
 
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dieseldonato

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Location
Us
TDI
2001 jetta
Yes, I also noted that the linked company made\sold additives but also that their estimated cost of "blended" fuel was low based on my costs.
At least some of the local retail stations use a combination like this one in the picture below that I took a while back. The former Holiday Station (now Circle K) used to post signage as to what the treated fuel flow temp was for during the various months of the cold season based on regional average lows. They also used a blend plus additives.
I think the bulk use of additives has become much more common as it's easier to adjust for regionally and as the season changes.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3JLGqqzz8tJQVkCA
I'm continuing to have frustrations with posting pictures here...
I wish they would tell us the blend rate and if it was treated at the pump. All I know is come November we get winter fuel (gas and diesel) till sometime in March. Much easier if you have a bulk tank to find out what it is.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
I wish they would tell us the blend rate and if it was treated at the pump. All I know is come November we get winter fuel (gas and diesel) till sometime in March. Much easier if you have a bulk tank to find out what it is.
Yeah, I liked how the Holiday Station used to post it. It showed which months the fuel was treated to be safe down to what temperature. The first few months (October\November) would be -10 or -20°F then each month or two it would increase to -40°F before starting back up around March\April. I haven't bought winter fuel since they switched branding to Circle K so I'm not sure what\if any posters now.
The only diesel fuel I've bought since September is for the John Deere and that's off road self blended.
These days the TDI stays parked until the roads are salt free again.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Living up north I've never had problems with winter fuel.
If I lived down south and got unusually cold weather i would consider some anti-gell.
 

John Wesley Hardin

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Aug 28, 2022
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Rockport Texas
TDI
2003 VW Jetta 1.9 Diesel GLS , Five Speed Standard Shift
This is a privately run site and it costs money for the kind of storage that may take. It isn't so hard to upload them to this or any other photo hosting site and link them here. I only host the important ones here and all the rest somewhere else. If everyone else can do it so can you.
Then why are other people asking the same question? Plus I dont see a whole slew of pictures posted all over the place either
 
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