Diesel Engine Break-In Myth?

[Thunderstruck]

thanks, I didn't read the whole thread-someone had bookmarked DBW's post as a single page like you did, so I didn't see the whole thing.

 

[APF]

Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran Registered Vendor



Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Boise, Idaho
Re: Break-in Period
Rules that apply for the life of the car
-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.
The reason for this is to keep the turbo on boost, clear the VNT guide vanes and apply firm pressure to the rings for optimal sealing against blow-by gasses. The rings need the boost to seal since its a turbo charged engine, babying the engine is detrimental and will lead to issues with compression if done so for very long.

First 1,000 miles
Keep rpms below 3,800. Avoid steady rpms. Frequent firm application of power is strongly recomended up to 3,800 rpm. Avoid the use of cruise control so that you naturally fluctuate the power with your foot.

1,000-5,000 miles
Use the full 5,100 rpm power range. Avoid steady rpms. Avoid the use of cruise control. Frequent application of full throttle is recomended to help seat the rings. City driving is ideal for breaking in a TDI due to frequent stops and acceleration. Once you get to 5,000 miles change the oil and perform your first service per the manual

5,000-10,000 miles
Use of the cruise control is ok at this point since most of the initial break in has occured. Continue to use occasional full throttle accelerations to continue to seat the rings. You will notice the engine become slightly louder during this phase due to less friction from the engine breaking in (normal for a diesel to become louder under lighter loads). If your going on a long drive and you are using the cruise, every so often step on the peddle to accelerate up about 20 mph then coast back down to your preset speed.

10,000-60,000
This is when the rest of the break in occurs. The engine from the factory will check out with about 475psi of compression pressure out of the crate. It will take at least 60,000 miles to reach the peak pressure of 550psi. For the most part once you get to 10,000 miles your compression will be around 510psi meaning that most of the break in has occured.

60,000-the life of the motor
The engines I have seen so far using a 5w40 oil are maintaining 550 psi of compression pressure with over 200,000 miles on the odometer. The owners have followed the advice above and do not have any oil consumption issues. This also means that with the higher pressure the engine is more efficient returning optimal fuel economy and reduced smoke output.

DB

I have been looking for this info as I have seen many people talking about DB's break-in procedure. It looks like great information and I plan to follow it to a T as my TDI is supposed to arrive this week.

My only question applies to the first part. DB says to rev the engine to 2500 while cold, and to no less than 3000 when warmed up.

1. Is this to be done in neutral/park or when driving?

2. Is this to be done just during the first 1000 miles, or throughout the life of the car?

Thanks for the great info DB

 

[Lightflyer1]

While driving. Parked there is no load on the engine and it does very little.

Life of the car. The turbo uses a special seal to hold the oil back that needs the turbo to be under some boost to work. You don't have to cruise around at 4k rpms though.

 

[APF]

While driving. Parked there is no load on the engine and it does very little.

Life of the car. The turbo uses a special seal to hold the oil back that needs the turbo to be under some boost to work. You don't have to cruise around at 4k rpms though.

Awesome. Thanks for the response.

 

[nameanyone]

-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.

Should I do the above once at the beginning of a trip or how often do I need to reapply the revving?

Keep rpms below 3,800. Avoid steady rpms. Frequent firm application of power is strongly recomended up to 3,800 rpm.

Would you say it's better to leave it in Sport mode then, for the break-in? Because in Drive it shifts at just above 2000. (Tiptronic is not an option for me, keep forgetting to shift)

 

[BlueMotion]

Why don't people stick to the break in instructions from Volkswagen?

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

Why don't people stick to the break in instructions from Volkswagen?

I don't see why not millions of vehicles have been broken in that way and there is no proof that DBW's break in procedures makes anything last any longer than a engine that has had any other break in procedures.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

IMHO VW's break in procedures are fine. It's a matter of what you define as 'normal' driving. What's normal in Europe would be considered abuse by many people here. I think the point of DBW's recommendations is that you should use the engine's full capabilities. Don't short shift all the time. Don't light foot it all the time. Use the power, the boost, and the ability to cruise at highway speeds. If you baby it the car won't be happy. Diesels like to work.

 

[Got Bearings?]

I've used this with success in the built motor in the Impala. 50k+ miles and still has about 210 PSI compression across all cylinders and less than 5% difference among them.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[JonFord]

To me that is the only way to do it Got Bearings. Drive it like your wife is chasing you with your girl friend in the seat with you. The only real issue in this engine the way I see it is the camshaft.

JonFord

 

[barshnik]

Thanks anyway, but I am using the very short procedure published in the owners manual for my '09 JSW TDI. Difficult for me to believe that the rings will NEVER seat properly unless you drive like a madman, or that the turbo will leak if you don't either.

No offense to DBW or anyone else, but I kind of put this info in the category of an 'urban myth'.

John F

 

[Drivbiwire]

Thanks anyway, but I am using the very short procedure published in the owners manual for my '09 JSW TDI. Difficult for me to believe that the rings will NEVER seat properly unless you drive like a madman, or that the turbo will leak if you don't either.

No offense to DBW or anyone else, but I kind of put this info in the category of an 'urban myth'.

John F

The break-in is just as much about seating rings as it is developing driving habits that lend to greater engine life and less chance of clogging and turbo damage than anything else.

My recomendations are far from urban legend and are based on solid factual information based on VW's break-in guidelines as well as known practices that prevent emissions system clogging and turbo jamming. Also these habits reduce the amount of oil lost thru the turbo seals thus in the case of the CR TDI this improves the life of the catalysts.

DB

 

[40X40]

Thanks anyway, but I am using the very short procedure published in the owners manual for my '09 JSW TDI. Difficult for me to believe that the rings will NEVER seat properly unless you drive like a madman, or that the turbo will leak if you don't either.

No offense to DBW or anyone else, but I kind of put this info in the category of an 'urban myth'.

John F

Of course you do. You are a newbie. No offense taken or intended. Stick around and learn something, as we all have. Even DBW has learned a lot in his 13 years of TDIclub participation. BTW the rings will eventually seat, but why not have them seat in a reasonable amount of time?

Bill

 

[Dark-Warden]

Of course you do. You are a newbie. No offense taken or intended. Stick around and learn something, as we all have. Even DBW has learned a lot in his 13 years of TDIclub participation. BTW the rings will eventually seat, but why not have them seat in a reasonable amount of time?

Bill

I myself have been reading a lot of the information posted here and have learned a lot. My one question thou is when i get my 09' TDI should i just take it on the highway and run it between 2500-3500 RPM for the first 350 or so KM or should i be doing city driving?

 

[Drivbiwire]

I myself have been reading a lot of the information posted here and have learned a lot. My one question thou is when i get my 09' TDI should i just take it on the highway and run it between 2500-3500 RPM for the first 350 or so KM or should i be doing city driving?

Those are SHIFT POINTS not rpms to keep the engine at.

"Rev up to" as in Shift at those rpms.

DB

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I think the DBW procedure says not to exceed 3500 RPM for the first few hundred miles, and work you way up to running the car to redline by 1000 miles. And between 1000 and 5000 miles use WOT and run the car to redline (he actually suggests 5100) frequently.

40X40 has a point. I just replaced the exhaust, including the CAT, on my '96 Passat because the exhaust always stunk when the car was cold, indicating a failing CAT. From 11/95 to 9/05 this car was driven 43K. Most of it was a two mile commute, in New Orleans. The PO evacuated to Houston after Katrina and commuted between Houston and NoLa for six months, putting another 10K on the car. He had the intake cleaned during that time, as it was badly clogged.

Since I've bought the car I've driven it normally, for me. Cruise at 75-85, shift at 3000 usually, 4000 frequently, redline occasionally. The car has continued to perform better, make more power, and fuel economy has steadily improved. Now that the new exhaust is in place and it has a fresh timing belt (old one was off a tooth, courtesy of the dealer) I've been driving it more aggressively. It's responding well. It has 64K on it now, I expect by 70K it will be broken in.

Do you want to take 13 years to break in your car? If not, follow DBW's procedure.

One last story. When I bought my '06 I followed the DBW procedure to the letter, including not checking fuel economy or using the cruise for the first 5K. Sootman bought the car with 20K on it. He recently posted getting 45.3 MPG on a ten hour drive with 4 people and luggage in the car averaging 65 MPH. He doesn't drive for economy, and was probably going 80+ most of the time. That's what a proper break-in will get you.

Now I'll put the soap box away and go on with my day.

 

[barshnik]

Of course you do. You are a newbie. No offense taken or intended. Stick around and learn something, as we all have. Even DBW has learned a lot in his 13 years of TDIclub participation. BTW the rings will eventually seat, but why not have them seat in a reasonable amount of time?
Bill

Oh, I've already learned a lot, and do intend on sticking around to hopefully learn much more. Yes, this is my first diesel car, but I've spent a good bit of time in my 60 years around engines of all types, including diesels.
So, although I drive pretty normally now with 3k miles on the TDI, I think 'normally' for me is actually pretty close to what DBW recommends for break-in. Within a few days after taking delivery, the wife & I took a trip to Ely NV, which involves a nice couple hundred mile stretch on highway 318, the highway which is used every year for the Silver State Challenge - an unlimited speed race which anyone can enter. There is little traffic, limited access, very few highway patrol. I didn't use the cruise, and varied my speed from 60 to 115 and back. This was probably a pretty good break-in run of 500 miles round trip as it includes cresting many mountain passes which involves open throttle as well as coasting.
Daily driving for work is 60% city, 40% highway, and I frequently use the DSG 'sport mode' for the 'city' part. This raises the shift points to 3-4k rpm.
So, I guess I could have avoided the flaming by saying it was because of DBW's article instead of my normal driving habits, within the few limits in the user manual regarding break-in.

John F

 

[mrGutWrench]

(snip) So, I guess I could have avoided the flaming by saying it was because of DBW's article instead of my normal driving habits, within the few limits in the user manual regarding break-in.

John F

__. Yeah, John, lots of good info from good people on this site. I didn't break my engine in according to DBW's rules (I was too easy on the engine) and it took a longer time for my fuel econ to come up (see my earlier post). I wish that I'd done compression tests but I'm pretty sure that the compression was slower to come up, too.

__. So, it's only one data point, but I'm pretty sure that the DBW breakin is a good plan - I wish that I'd followed it on my one-and-only new car.

 

[TornadoRed]

The break-in is just as much about seating rings as it is developing driving habits that lend to greater engine life and less chance of clogging and turbo damage than anything else.

Yesterday, at the ON GTG in Missouri, someone was talking about a TDI which quite possibly had never been revved above 1500 rpm (perhaps the storyteller was Frank aka Franko6). At any rate, this horror story included terrible performance, terrible fuel mileage, a clogged intake, and ended with a blown turbo, runaway engine, bent rods, and a gigantic repair bill. Babying a TDI engine is never a good idea.

 

[BlueMotion]

Yesterday, someone was talking about a TDI which quite possibly had never been revved above 1500 rpm. At any rate, this horror story included terrible performance, terrible fuel mileage, a clogged intake, and ended with a blown turbo, runaway engine, bent rods, and a gigantic repair bill. Babying a TDI engine is never a good idea.

Sound's like an urban myth to me.

 

[TornadoRed]

Sound's like an urban myth to me.

Maybe -- it does sound unbelievable that someone would short-shift at such a low rpm, consistently over many years. But if someone did, then an unfortunate outcome certainly seems plausible.

 

[burpod]

It re-opens 5 seconds after crank rotation completely stops.

Vacuum to hold the valve closed after the engine comes to a stop is provided by the vacuum reservoir mounted on the engine (black ball) near the oil filter housing.

DB

DB

the PD anti-shudder valve is electronically actuated. from hearing the clicking under the hood, it sounds like it re-opens much sooner than 5 seconds. maybe 2-3. ???

 

[BlueMotion]

Maybe -- it does sound unbelievable that someone would short-shift at such a low rpm, consistently over many years. But if someone did, then an unfortunate outcome certainly seems plausible.

I don't consider 1500 RPM short shifting. I do most of my mileage between 800 and 1300 RPM. I've worked on these motors for more than 20 years and have never heard of over boost due to RPM. Overboost happens due to too much load pedal at low RPM, but driving soft at low RPM is not going to damage the turbo. Set your scangauge to map the boost and you will see. To be honest I've never read as much BS in my whole life as I've read in this thread regarding break in proceedures.

 

[Drivbiwire]

I don't consider 1500 RPM short shifting. I do most of my mileage between 800 and 1300 RPM.

You live in Spain and burn what kind of diesel fuel in regards to sulfur, US up until a year ago had 500ppm sulfur levels which greatly increased soot formation and intake clogging.
Does your car have US Tier II Bin 10 emissions requiring nearly 100% EGR duty rates and retarded injection timing which increases soot formation?
Quite frankly your car(s) have nothing in common due to the significant differences in ECU programming and emissions strategies that are employed aside from using the same block and turbo.

I've worked on these motors for more than 20 years and have never heard of over boost due to RPM. Overboost happens due to too much load pedal at low RPM, but driving soft at low RPM is not going to damage the turbo.

Overboost is due to excessive soot formation in the VNT control ring. The ring binds up and stops moving. This reduces or prohibits the VNT from cycling to the low boost position. When the ring binds up and the car is accelerating, the VNT is initially set to high boost/flow. As the engines exhaust gas flow/energy rises and "specified" boost pressure requirements are met the VNT is commanded to cycle toward the low boost position.

If the VNT is jammed up due to a lack of ever reaching peak flow/gas energy the ring remains in the high flow/high pressure position to maintain specified boost pressures per the mapping.

If the Control ring is suffering from limited travel and the ring is commanded to a reduced flow setting by the ECU this causes an "Boost deviation - High" code in other words the turbo will overboost everytime the engine is under high load (accelerating, climbing steep slopes/grades, high speed driving).

This [jammed VNT control ring] again is caused by never permitting/allowing the turbo to transition thru the exhaust flow/energy range that causes the turbo to cycle to lower sustained boost levels. The suggested 2500 cold, 3000 warm allows sufficient exhaust flow to cause the VNT to cycle to low boost positions clearing and preventing carbon formation in the ring and on the VGV surfaces which inhibit the range of motion.

When you combine the high sulfur + High EGR duty cycle + Retarded injection timing + low cetane (40 Cn) + Tier II Bin 10 emissions + low sustained load for all driving conditions = Jammed turbo VNT rings and Jammed compression rings in each cylinder as a result of carbon formation behind the rings from a lack of cycling and outward force from the combustion gasses. Yes rings are dynamic and always flex to exert outward force against the cylinders, this is controlled exclusively by the combustion gasses being generated. Due to design and the fact the engine is turbo charged, low boost operation does not provide optimal sealing conditions and results in poor ring to cylinder sealing and eventual damage.

Set your scangauge to map the boost and you will see. To be honest I've never read as much BS in my whole life as I've read in this thread regarding break in proceedures.

Frankly I am far from impressed in fact astounded you have such a lack of experience or understanding of these cars. You claim to have 20 years of experience yet demonstrate a complete lack of understanding in how these engines work by virtue of this single post.

DB

 

[BlueMotion]

Does your car have US Tier II Bin 10 emissions requiring nearly 100% EGR duty rates and retarded injection timing which increases soot formation?
Quite frankly your car(s) have nothing in common due to the significant differences in ECU programming and emissions strategies that are employed aside from using the same block and turbo.

You yanks make me laugh. Do you really think Volkswagen would really make a completely unique car for such an insignificant market.

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

To be honest I've never read as much BS in my whole life as I've read in this thread regarding break in proceedures.

I'd tend to agree although wouldn't call it BS. Your just as unlikely to do any harm following those procedures as you are to not follow them. I've seen tdi's go 300,000 miles with little more than recommended maintenance which were not broken in per DBW recomendations, and I had my 04 blow a turbo at 12,000 miles with usage similar to DBW.

 

[Drivbiwire]

You yanks make me laugh. Do you really think Volkswagen would really make a completely unique car for such an insignificant market.

Fact is they do and continue to do so.

DB

 

[oilhammer]

You yanks make me laugh. Do you really think Volkswagen would really make a completely unique car for such an insignificant market.

Actually they make several engines for the US market. Ah, that wonderful 5 cylinder 170hp gas engine as STANDARD in the current US-spec Jetta/Rabbit for one.

And I take it you have never been around a Westmoreland Rabbit either? They even BUILT those here.

 

[BlueMotion]

that wonderful 5 cylinder 170hp gas engine as STANDARD in the current US-spec Jetta/Rabbit for one.

That's a gasser. I'm talking about diesels. Do US diesel car sales even form 1% of world diesel car sales?

 

[oilhammer]

That's a gasser. I'm talking about diesels. Do US diesel car sales even form 1% of world diesel car sales?

The 1V ECOdiesel was a US-only diesel engine. The setup on the early 1Z with its OBD-D was also US-only.