Details on the new VW TDI engine at the TDIFest

m9431

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Location
Reading PA USA
TDI
2002 golf tdi white
VW drops the ball?

Here's to hoping that they don't. Like so many here, I prefer the Golf/Rabbit to a Jetta. It makes for a better commuter car, and to me, I prefer the way it handles--no tail to wag, I guess. (Not that the Jetta is a bad ride, really...)

Gees, I hope that the new incarnation of VWoA spends time reading our posts here! Why not a Rabbit TDI including a sport version, and a Polo TDI? Am I alone in thinking that too many vehicles are getting too big when many of us Americans want and need higher MPG? My wife loves her '03 Toyota RAV4 but was disappointed with the new, larger RAV. I'm also waiting for the Tiguan TDI as a replacement--if VW prices it right.

After my terrible experience with my last 2 Honda Accords, I really, really don't want to buy another Honda product. But I'll have to have a look at what they'll be offering when their diesels arrive. (BTW, did anyone here test drive the new Civic? After I did, I was glad to get back into my Golf...)
 

TornadoRed

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2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
tomo366 said:
The question was asked......I think he said 2010
That would be so stupid as to be absurd.

A car is introduced with a great deal of excitement and buyer interest. There's a huge demand, and it takes a while to meet that demand.

But if the TDI version isn't available until two years later, then half a dozen OTHER similar cars will be introduced with a great deal of excitement and buyer interest.

If VWoA is actually going to wait until 2010, then it sounds like someone really, really wants the Tiguan to fail. It doesn't matter how good the 2.0T is -- it is not the ideal engine for the Tiguan, the TDI is.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
TornadoRed said:
That would be so stupid as to be absurd.

A car is introduced with a great deal of excitement and buyer interest. There's a huge demand, and it takes a while to meet that demand.

But if the TDI version isn't available until two years later, then half a dozen OTHER similar cars will be introduced with a great deal of excitement and buyer interest.

If VWoA is actually going to wait until 2010, then it sounds like someone really, really wants the Tiguan to fail. It doesn't matter how good the 2.0T is -- it is not the ideal engine for the Tiguan, the TDI is.
Yeah, I agree. I can say without a doubt a Tiggy would never be in my driveway if it was cursed with spark plugs. :cool:
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
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West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
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2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
VWoA might as well just promise lots of really cool products in 2020. They don't seem to realize that there is a very narrow window of opportunity, before ten or more automakers introduce their own diesel powered models. It doesn't matter if the VW/Audi TDI is better than all the others... if they wait too long it will be VHS vs Betamax.

2008 and 2009 are the last years that VW really has a chance to make a connection with the US consumer. They'd better have a Rabbit TDI and a Polo TDI and the Tiguan TDI, and whatever is going to follow the NB, in the showrooms and on the lots, in decent numbers, in the next 24 months, or else just hang it up and call it quits. 2010 is too late, 2010 might as well be 2020.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
TornadoRed said:
VWoA might as well just promise lots of really cool products in 2020. They don't seem to realize that there is a very narrow window of opportunity, before ten or more automakers introduce their own diesel powered models. It doesn't matter if the VW/Audi TDI is better than all the others... if they wait too long it will be VHS vs Betamax.

2008 and 2009 are the last years that VW really has a chance to make a connection with the US consumer. They'd better have a Rabbit TDI and a Polo TDI and the Tiguan TDI, and whatever is going to follow the NB, in the showrooms and on the lots, in decent numbers, in the next 24 months, or else just hang it up and call it quits. 2010 is too late, 2010 might as well be 2020.
It pains me to do so, but I sadly have to agree. VOA's logic is clearly flawed. :(
 

vwrobert51

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
Maui Hawaii
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2004 Jetta Wagon
as you have read. (vwvortex) VOA is moving and their is a major corp shake down going on. and the new head of VOA wants to hear what the U.S. buyers wants. so now is the the time to call and tell them what you want!!!. (i.e POLO AND MORE TDIS.) SO START E-MAILING AND CALLING NOW!!!!!.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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Location
Cambridge, MA
TDI
5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
Robert,

What is the best email address to use?

~BeetleGo
 

jhintontdi

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Location
PDX
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2014 JSW TDI DSG
Smokerr said:
A nice job in holding the economy with better performance, though those of us with the Passat have had that for 2-3 years now in the automatic which was the only avail trany (with somewhat less MPG, but not a whole lot).

It will be interesting if it can exceed the mpg as before, a wash or a bit less with the new setup.
I disagree. They have done exactly what I expected, sacrifice fuel economy for more performance. I don't need more performance, my 100 HP TDI has all the performance I need. What I need is better fuel economy. I expect progress, not stagnation. I certainly don't expect the the fuel economy for the next generation of hybrids to stand still still. I guess VW made my choice easier. No Polo TDI, No Rabbit TDI, No VW for me.

I test drove a Smart ForTwo on Friday. 2 Seats, ESP, ABS, Side Airbags, 0-60 in 10 seconds, > 40 mpg combined (50 US mpg in the EU combined) all for $12,200 for the Pure + A/C.
 

rcnaylor

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Joined
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Location
Amarillo, TX
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportswagen Silver
Yeah, I agree. I can say without a doubt a Tiggy would never be in my driveway if it was cursed with spark plugs.

2008 and 2009 are the last years that VW really has a chance to make a connection with the US consumer. They'd better have a Rabbit TDI and a Polo TDI and the Tiguan TDI, and whatever is going to follow the NB, in the showrooms and on the lots, in decent numbers, in the next 24 months, or else just hang it up and call it quits. 2010 is too late, 2010 might as well be 2020.
Ditto those comments. I think they are right on the money and VW would be wise to heed them.
 

jollyGreenGiant

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MA
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03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
We do need a VOA email or contact to send our comments to. Why don't they poll us like they do sometimes with VWVortex? We know what we want and I think we have a strong collective buying power, why doesn't VOA recognize? We can help them help us, let's co-habitate better?

Polo TDI, Rabbit TDI, Touran TDI and Passat Wagon TDI all available in both manual and DSG would be I think what we richly deserve for waiting so patiently for the party to begin.

I strongly believe that an ultra efficient and safe small car is needed ( Polo ), I firmly believe that a Golf is far more utilitarian than a Jetta and does everything else at least as well; driving, looks, etc. I would pay more for a Golf, yes absolutely. A Touran TDI is sorely needed, this is America, we travel all over the place, need a 6 or 7 passenger vehicle capable of taking at least three child seats and we need to accomplish ~40 mpg while doing so while basked in safety and refinement. The Touran is perfect for this, closest thing is a Mazda5 and I wouldn't feel happy with that purchase for many reasons. Passat Wagon, yes of course it just makes perfect sense, almost perfect car for so many unsuspecting Americans. I drive one because I know better, it takes time and some sharing of knowledge before folks drop the SUV and arrive in Passat Wagon style, the market is there.

They do need to get that Tiguan TDI out here, that will spark some TDI awareness for sure which will drive the other models sales as well.

Manual transmission options are a necessity for the following aspects improved upon with a TDI/manual transmission combination: Economy - Longevity - Performance

 
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QSHIPWAGON

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Location
Seacoast of NH
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2009 TDI SPORTWAGEN
VW/TDI And The Experts

This is a repost from the "Arrival of the Sportwagen" thread, but I thought I'd stick it here too since something has been made so clear to me from the experts at TDI Club: VW should consider firing almost everyone in Michigan and build a new HQ in Virginia with all new hires coming from the automobile manufacturing and marketing experts on these boards :) Problems solved and all new servers for Fred! Explaining why we like TDIPARTS.com might be an issue as employees of VOA, but we'll figure it out.

I believe that manufacturers will be facing an interesting market for diesels in the next few years. While it has been true that your average diesel buyer was looking primarily at an inexpensive car to buy and an "economical" car to run in terms of both MPG and the promise of longevity, I think that is changing. People like myself want a reasonably priced car to buy that has great safety features and is at least somewhat fun to drive. My wife will be the primary driver of our new Sportwagen and she wants the buttons on the steering wheel, Sirius radio, comfort, and the heated seats that if unavailable would be a dealbreaker.

Both my wife and I are high performance driving instructors at the club level and although we don't tear up the streets we do appreciate a certain level of response under our right foot.

VW and other manufacturers who bring diesels to the market will be looking at where the sales are, but more importantly where the MONEY is. If the money is in higher line cars that is what they will bring to market. Would VW rather sell 1 SEL Passat, 1 SE equipped Jetta, and 1 Audi A5 in order to make, say, $15,000 profit or a dozen "Polos/Rabbits" or whatever to make the same? Your guess is as good as mine.

Now, if Honda is selling cars that are more "Polo/Rabbit-like" and there's more intense competition at that level it might make the job of selling those 15 "Polos" even tougher. In the end, its up to VW and the other manufaturers to decide where they want to be. More importantly, as we all know, companies exist for ONE reason and that is to make money.

Even though VW has been doing a DISMAL job of doing that in the US it will be interesting to watch how they chase the almighty dollar during the next few years. Moving HQ to Virginia is one manifestation of the drama that will play out. Watching how VW handles the marketing of the new diesels (non-existent in years past) and in what cars they put them in will be interesting too.

Are families like ours that are willing to pay $28,000 for a new TDI Sportwagen with lots of goodies the typical buyer, or will it be families who would like an MB CDI but will settle on a TDI Passat 4 Motion for $20K less. Could it be there is there more money in selling loads of $18,000 diesels to gents in white shirts and black ties with a mileage calculator in their pocket protector? Will VW support models that satisfy all these parties? Time and the market will tell.

How come VW never made an economical diesel mini-van for parents who were more concerned about saving for college than getting a little home heating fuel on their hands at the "gas" station? No money in it folks, that's why.

Let's hope VW does begin to reach down to find where the money is because that's what sustains companies and keeps product coming to market. We can only hope those products appeal to us here at the TDICLUB.

Paul Royal

Deposit Down on 2009 TDI Sportwagen SEL
'97 Audi A6 Quattro Wagon
'91 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro Wagon
'86 Audi 4000 CS Quattro
'67 SS/RS 350 Camaro
'89 Boston Whaler Mischief (Yamaha 50)

Former: 2006 Jetta TDI Pkg 1
1984 Rabbit Diesel
 

dwkdnvr

Member
Joined
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Location
Denver
TDI
none
TornadoRed said:
That would be so stupid as to be absurd.

A car is introduced with a great deal of excitement and buyer interest. There's a huge demand, and it takes a while to meet that demand.

But if the TDI version isn't available until two years later, then half a dozen OTHER similar cars will be introduced with a great deal of excitement and buyer interest.

If VWoA is actually going to wait until 2010, then it sounds like someone really, really wants the Tiguan to fail. It doesn't matter how good the 2.0T is -- it is not the ideal engine for the Tiguan, the TDI is.
Attempting to maintain at least some optimism, my understanding on the Tiguan TDI is that it was never expected 'at launch'. Spring 09 was the date I came away expecting, which is just barely early enough to remain a possibility for me. A 2010 model year might not be all that different, but it still is at least a 6 month slip. I agree though, that waiting 2 years from today is a tough sell.
I also agree that without the TDI the Tiguan is probably off my list, since it just doesn't seem to offer much that isn't already available at (probably) lower prices.
 

jhintontdi

Veteran Member
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PDX
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2014 JSW TDI DSG
dwkdnvr said:
Attempting to maintain at least some optimism, my understanding on the Tiguan TDI is that it was never expected 'at launch'. Spring 09 was the date I came away expecting, which is just barely early enough to remain a possibility for me. A 2010 model year might not be all that different, but it still is at least a 6 month slip. I agree though, that waiting 2 years from today is a tough sell.
I also agree that without the TDI the Tiguan is probably off my list, since it just doesn't seem to offer much that isn't already available at (probably) lower prices.
That is not my understanding. When they launched the Tiguan at the autoshow it was with a promised 50 state compliant TDI. Print magazine have been saying that the TDI will be available in 2008. For example the October issue of Automobile says the following "Coming in late 2008 is a 140-hp diesel version that is expected to get some 40 mpg." So VW is not only pushing out the TDI to 2010 but I would say 40 mpg is no realistic for the Tiguan if the Jetta is only going to get 36/46mpg. VW needs to get a consistant message and stick with it.
 

Occams_Razor

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donfromnaples said:
The Rabbit will be set up the same way as the Jetta. The EOS may not due to engine bay dimensions (may not be able to easily fit the 2.0 tdi) which is also the case for the NB.
The EOS comes with the 2.0 TDI, (Eos 2,0 l TDI mit Dieselpartikelfilter 103 kW (140 PS) 6-Gang), in Europe and the V6 fits fine so it is not a matter of dimensions.

The EOS was actually engineered with the TDI engine in mind since the vast majority of those sold in the EU were expected to be TDI's, (according to the marketing person I spoke with when I was at Wolfsburg last spring right before the EOS intro on May 19th).

VWOA is the one who has not wanted to bring ANY convertible TDI's, (same with the NB convertibles), since they claim that NA buyers will not tolerate the diesel smell and smoke, (of course they say this with as straight face as they tell you how smoke free and clean smelling the TDI is designed to be).

I, for one, would trade in one of our TDI's, (probably the wifes NB ;)), for a TDI EOS, (my wife would also have no objections. She fell in love with the EOS when we saw it in Germany and was crestfallen when she heard that no TDI option for NA :( ).
 

texsurfer

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TDI
GLS TDI, 2004, Reflex Silver
donfromnaples said:
The Rabbit will be set up the same way as the Jetta. The EOS may not due to engine bay dimensions (may not be able to easily fit the 2.0 tdi) which is also the case for the NB.
I've seen EOS in UK with TDI options. go to vw.co.uk and buildone. very cool...
 

dee_zell

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Jetta Wagon 03 auto
TDIMeister said:
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=89011&pg=1

...the new 2.0L TDI should have similar ratings than the current 1.9L engine: 6.8 L/100 km in the city and 5.1 L/100 km on the highway with the automatic transmission.

...the new TDI generates 140 horsepower and 235 lb-ft or torque
Well, lets be honest. By introducing this engine to America VW is not going into a new territory. Japanese companies IMHO are well prepared for the coming Diesel wars with engines well tested and perfected on the European markets. In Europe Japanese diesels have better reputation and are valued higher than German made ones. Here in America we simply have no choice at least till now.

This summer I spent two weeks in Europe and had a chance to drive a Civic CTDi. 2.2L, 4-cyl engine with over 140HP and a whopping 250lb-ft torque delivered to front wheels by a 6 speed manual tranny. Just over 4 l/100km hwy and 2 more liters in the city driving. It's fast, it's quiet and smooth and I can bet if they start offering it in America VWoA will have at least a problem. Why? Just ask some ordinary drivers who makes more reliable cars VW or Honda.

Sorry, it may sound like a politically incorrect propaganda on this forum but it is based on mathematically correct data.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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Canada
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TDI
dee_zell said:
In Europe Japanese diesels have better reputation and are valued higher than German made ones. ...

This summer I spent two weeks in Europe and had a chance to drive a
You're kidding me, right? Do you live in Europe to state that Japanese Diesels are preferred over German ones? While you may be justly entitled to be convinced that your Civic rental car was the cat's meow compared to the limited number of Diesel offerings in North America, the sentiment is not shared by most Europeans, at least Germans. Japanese cars consistently get mediocre reviews in German car mags, and are not as well beloved as you might think. It might be a national pride attitude. And if they were so well liked, they would sell in greater numbers, and the top-10 sellers in almost every segment would be occupied by more Japanese models than they do.
 
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chewy

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Location
CA
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The 2.2 170 hp diesel in the Lexus IS in Europe and in the Auris (European Corolla/Golf competitor) can't compare to European diesels. It is much slower than the competition, basically just figures and not real performance.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
And wasn't Honda running some Peugot diesels for a while? And what about the new Mitsubishis with VAG diesels under the hood?
 

istewart

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
jollyGreenGiant said:
We do need a VOA email or contact to send our comments to. Why don't they poll us like they do sometimes with VWVortex? We know what we want and I think we have a strong collective buying power, why doesn't VOA recognize? We can help them help us, let's co-habitate better?
Seconding this. We need some contact info in this thread. I'm prepared to send a strongly worded letter about how my family has been practically VW-exclusive for the past 25+ years, but they probably won't be seeing any of us as return customers if they don't offer a wide range of diesel options. My mom has long been interested in a Passat to someday replace her New Beetle, but if her only options are gas engines with unimpressive economy, then she figures she might as well get a car that's more powerful and fun to drive. She's been looking at the Chrysler 300C lately, for instance...

And honestly, despite what some people here have said in the past, I think TDIClub offers a better sample of VW's potential market than VWVortex. Polling VWVortex is all well and good for the time being, since they can sell plenty of high-profit premium performance models to Vortex nuts, but if they rely solely on that market, then they're doomed to a tiny niche. VW's future depends on economy cars. Once upon a time, they did economy cars better than anybody else in the world, and they can do it again. But I'd like to have some assurance from their management that they will. Otherwise, my car-related savings will go solely towards maintenance of my current vehicles rather than a down-payment on a new VW... and if I ever feel the need for a new car and can't get the diesel VW I want, well... 25 years of loyalty won't mean a damned thing if they refuse to serve me today.
 

dee_zell

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Jetta Wagon 03 auto
TDIMeister said:
You're kidding me, right?
Nope, not my intention.

TDIMeister said:
Do you live in Europe to state that Japanese Diesels are preferred over German ones?
Nope, but travel there often enough, stay long enough and make enough contacts to have at least some ideas what's going on across the big pond.

TDIMeister said:
While you may be justly entitled to be convinced that your Civic rental car was the cat's meow compared to the limited number of Diesel offerings in North America, the sentiment is not shared by most Europeans, at least Germans.
This car was a lease to be precise and I was simply impressed with it. I learned that Honda introduced this engine about two years ago and pretty much this is what we are going to get from Honda here soon.

Now, talking about the sentiments Germans rank Japanese cars higher than their own brands with Toyota leading in most segments.

Surprised? Not me.

Talking about reliability? Again, Germans place Toyota in the first place before BMW. VW? Don't even ask. Mercedes, Porshe and even Ford has higher ranking.

TDIMeister said:
Japanese cars consistently get mediocre reviews in German car mags, and are not as well beloved as you might think. It might be a national pride attitude.
Can you point to any sources? A national pride? Becoming extinct in the global market economy with the older generation complaining about the Americanization of their fatherland.

TDIMeister said:
And if they were so well liked, they would sell in greater numbers, and the top-10 sellers in almost every segment would be occupied by more Japanese models than they do.
That's logical but you're missing some important factors. You have to understand that most European countries with their own automotive industry drastically limit Japanese imports. As far as I know France keeps 3% limit, Italy 1% for example plus they punish potential buyers with an extra 10% import tax.

But this situation is changing now with the new EU members in Eastern Europe welcoming Japanese production plants. In 2005 Toyota opened a new engine plant in Poland and by 2012 they want to reach 1.5 mln units per year. By producing their cars within the EU borders they avoid import taxes and base their production on cheaper non unionized labour force.

Their cars therefore have lower price tags and with rapidly spreading news about their reliability and economy customers create an even more friendly environment for Japs.

Okay, let's talk about the machines.

Why do I think Honda can compete with VWoA? Their CTDi engine is better than the best VW engine in this class after modifications. VW is simply bringing their older, well established in Europe 2-liter engine to America after some modifications to meet new emission standards and give it better economy. And as you know there are other Japanese manufacturers to compete with VW in America. If Honda starts selling diesels in America definitely Toyota and Nissan will follow with Nissan now claiming to have the cleanest and most efficient engine in the making of all of them.

What will then happen to our old good Volkswagens? Our sentiment and pride will simply disappear killed by the brutal forces of the economy.

Disappear unless Germans can compete with Japanese. They already start to feel that pressure in their European market.
 

nicklockard

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QSHIPWAGON said:
Let's hope VW does begin to reach down to find where the money is because that's what sustains companies and keeps product coming to market. We can only hope those products appeal to us here at the TDICLUB.

Paul Royal
Paul,

Agreed. They should market a diesel Audi or three for the performance oriented, then just offer a diesel Tiguan for the CUV crowd, and stick with the Jetta for passenger cars. They can't make money marketing a 'cheap' Rabbit diesel, but they have to have something small/sporty looking, Ergo, diesel Audi's.
 

dee_zell

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oilhammer said:
And wasn't Honda running some Peugot diesels for a while? And what about the new Mitsubishis with VAG diesels under the hood?
That was Isuzu I think and Mitsubishi offers 1.5 liter 3-cyl diesels in Europe that have a very good reputation and the more powerful 2-liter sold with their SUVs.

In Europe about 50% of passenger cars run on diesel. It is a different planet but worth visiting by American diesel fans grown on VWs only. Go there, try their Peugeots, Seats, Fords and other strange creatures not known here and when you're back get behind the wheel of a new 300C to stretch your legs and admire the smooth, quiet ride and sinful comfort of an American style cabin.
 

tiguando

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istewart said:
And honestly, despite what some people here have said in the past, I think TDIClub offers a better sample of VW's potential market than VWVortex. Polling VWVortex is all well and good for the time being, since they can sell plenty of high-profit premium performance models to Vortex nuts, but if they rely solely on that market, then they're doomed to a tiny niche. VW's future depends on economy cars. Once upon a time, they did economy cars better than anybody else in the world, and they can do it again.
Totally agree. Honestly I think there's too much testosterone and too few brain cells over there sometimes. I actually think it's a bad idea to poll them at all if they are indeed doing that. It used to be that all VW discussion was welcome but nowadays unless you're talking about 20" rims and lowering your car until it scrapes the ground you're going to get either silence or insults in response to your posts. There are still good people over there but it has really changed. Very few people over there want a small economical car. It's become a race/modder oriented site. I couldn't find any relevant threads so I don't know if VW is really polling them officially or not. I do know they read and listen to what they have to say though but that just tends to result in limited editions like the R32.

There is no reason why VW can't sell a TDI Rabbit alongside the TDI Jetta from the start (they are the same car where it matters) and it's inexcusable to wait until 2010 to add it to the Tiguan.
 

dee_zell

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tiguando said:
There is no reason why VW can't sell a TDI Rabbit alongside the TDI Jetta from the start (they are the same car where it matters) and it's inexcusable to wait until 2010 to add it to the Tiguan.
I think there may be a reason. An economical reason. They may try to simplify the production operations of their cheaper models concentrating resources in the more profitable segments and Tiguan is really promising better profits in my opinion with a higher demand in this segment. A small SUV market is growing and with much better fuel economy achieved from diesel engines they have all reasons to hurry to grab a sizable chunk of the market before Japanese show up in America with their own small diesel powered SUVs.
 

TornadoRed

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tiguando said:
There is no reason why VW can't sell a TDI Rabbit alongside the TDI Jetta from the start (they are the same car where it matters) and it's inexcusable to wait until 2010 to add it to the Tiguan.
VAG's problem is the exchange rate, which means they don't have a Golf/Rabbit production line in any country where they can build the cars and sell them in the US at a profit. Not in the Euro zone, not in Brazil, is there anywhere else?

Thinking about or hinting at a production facility in the US doesn't help in the next two years... if they started pouring concrete right now it would take three or four years.

The Mk6 Golf should be ready to roll out in 2009, I think. We (US & CA) will probably have to wait for that model, but even then it will probably have to be built either in the US or Mexico. So... switch the NB line over to build Mk6 Rabbits, including TDIs? It makes sense to me.
 

tiguando

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TornadoRed said:
The Mk6 Golf should be ready to roll out in 2009, I think. We (US & CA) will probably have to wait for that model, but even then it will probably have to be built either in the US or Mexico.
They have been testing the MkVI Golf/Rabbit here in Arizona. Of course they have also been testing the Scirocco and Polo here as well so who knows what they are up to?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
dee_zell said:
That was Isuzu I think and Mitsubishi offers 1.5 liter 3-cyl diesels in Europe that have a very good reputation and the more powerful 2-liter sold with their SUVs.

In Europe about 50% of passenger cars run on diesel. It is a different planet but worth visiting by American diesel fans grown on VWs only. Go there, try their Peugeots, Seats, Fords and other strange creatures not known here and when you're back get behind the wheel of a new 300C to stretch your legs and admire the smooth, quiet ride and sinful comfort of an American style cabin.
There is a video on youtube right now of a Euro-spec Outlander (I think) that clearly has a factory-installed Volkswagen TDI under the hood. They just stuck the Mitsu-logo on the cover. Chrysler also uses VAG diesels in their smaller FWD offerings there as well.

See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4eJ0ExV3Eg

it is in French I believe. It is the 2.0L DI-D. Look closely at the dipstick and oil fill cap. The title reads something about a "diesel heart" ;)

So if the Japanese diesels are so great, why is Mitsubishi (a very LARGE company) using German engines under the hood? Toyota has teamed up with GM for diesel technology (via GM's Isuzu affiliation) and Nissan is owned by Renault, so all their upcoming diesel tech is through their French stewards. Only Honda (and just recently at that) has taken on the diesel challenge mostly in-house. And I for one would have to see some more proof of their long term durability, which has not been shown to anyone since they have only been around for a couple years....I have Volkswagen diesels in my driveway that were on the road when Honda still had carburetors! ;)

Oh, and Suzuki uses Euro diesels as well. The diesel Vitara uses a Peugot engine as there is a club member here in New Zealand that has one.

I have owned 2 Toyota diesels, a Mazda diesel powered Ford, and a Nissan diesel powered IH. The Japanese diesels are not bad, but it is all just copycat stuff and the Germans still seemed to do some things better. But I have no doubt the newer Japanese stuff is better than the older stuff.
 
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jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
MA
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
And honestly, despite what some people here have said in the past, I think TDIClub offers a better sample of VW's potential market than VWVortex. Polling VWVortex is all well and good for the time being, since they can sell plenty of high-profit premium performance models to Vortex nuts, but if they rely solely on that market, then they're doomed to a tiny niche. VW's future depends on economy cars. Once upon a time, they did economy cars better than anybody else in the world, and they can do it again. But I'd like to have some assurance from their management that they will. Otherwise, my car-related savings will go solely towards maintenance of my current vehicles rather than a down-payment on a new VW... and if I ever feel the need for a new car and can't get the diesel VW I want, well... 25 years of loyalty won't mean a damned thing if they refuse to serve me today.
TDIClub.com members ARE the market segment that is predicted to incur a dramatic rise in sales; government estimates I've seen from 1% to double digit market penetration in less than a decade ( or something like that - don't quote me ;)

The good of VWVortex is certianly diluted with dribble ( seems to be increasing ), but it is still an outpost for some good information; a VW is still a VW, they have decent Audi content too. Sometimes you just have to take the good with the bad.
 
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