Delayed Brakes ?

[noshametogame]

2014 Jetta TDI. Seems to have a delayed response when braking.

When I took one for a test drive I questioned the 'forward pulling effect' when gearing down, my salesperson advised that the diesel engine would feel much different then a regular gas engine....
I'm just a chick so I took his word for it....

I felt that I needed to 'get used to' the way the jetta drove and braked and thought it was just me.... When pressing the brake, it's as if the car needs to gear down before it starts to slow down.

Picked a friend up in my new ride for a cruise and she was freaked out as she thought I was going to rear-end someone... she thought I was taking too long to press the brake peddle but I told her that I was actually on the brake and the peddle needed to be at least half way pressed before the car actually started slowing down.

Another passenger felt the same way and asked to test drive it himself. He too noticed the issue right away and said there was a delay from when the peddle is pressed until when the actual car starts to slow. He's never driven a diesel before and I advised that it's just cause it's a diesel (as per my salesperson)

I complained to my dealership and My last service consisted of the TMPS/ESC Software update (which I was told should have solved the issue) but I still experience it.

My driving habbits have changed. I find myself riding the brake more often as I'm worried that I'm not going to stop on time.

Anyone else have a delayed braking issue? Is it just the "diesel engine" ? Should I have a delay and should the peddle have to be half way pressed before it starts to slow.... ?

Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated !

New VW owner...
Michelle
Innisfil Ontario

 

[Victor Ward]

I don't know what's wrong with it, if there is something wrong with it or why its doing this but you need to get it back to the dealer and have this fixed before something really bad happens. You should never be uncomfortable with the braking of your car.

 

[jrt750]

Hi Im new VW Jetta owner and Im having the same problem I asked the dealer to check it they said it is normal. And then asked if I have every owned a German car . I said no and if they don't fix it it will be the last . It may be normal but it is wrong . I will not rest till I have this sorted out , My wife will not drive it . Any one have any ideas as to why it does this Id like to know . Being told its normal is not a good answer . Will watch here and add as I gain more info on this .

regards John

 

[Serra]

Yes, it is widely known that in Germany, people push the brake a few seconds before it is needed. There is no emergency breaking in Germany...

Sounds like a real problem. Cars should stop when the break is pressed, not have a delay. One thing you can do is ask someone else to drive it and make sure that what you are feeling is what is happening. Once that is confirmed, then take it to a different dealer.

 

[SkeeterMark]

I'm assuming you have a DSG, which I do not have experience with, but this is not normal brake operation, here or in Germany, no matter if it is a diesel, gasoline, or electric vehicle. Brakes should respond when requested with a foot pressing on the pedal. Immediately. Period.

I have no idea what could be wrong....something software related to the transmission and ABS or something, or how they work together maybe. <---wild guess, but there shouldn't be anything mechanical causing it.

 

[noshametogame]

Thanks everyone for your input !

jrt750, I have a service appointment this Saturday morning in Barrie. I will be sure to post my outcome.

Serra, I did have someone else drive the car. He also believes there is too much of a delay between the foot and the car slowing down. He noticed it mostly during the lower speeds but I notice it both at higher speeds and lower.

SkeeterMark, yes, it's a DSG. During my last service a few weeks ago (at 30,000) they did a software update for the TMPS/ESC. They told me, at this point, that it solved my braking inquiry. -it didn't.

I've had the car 6 months and put over 30,000.... As I mentioned I changed my driving habits for the past 6 months....especially now that the snow had hit "cottage country" in Central Ontario. My daily commute is 180km on the 400 series hwy. I find myself riding the brake making sure I'm keeping a distance as I'm worried as heck that I'm going to rear-end someone and cause injury.

I just hope I don't get the run-around on Saturday...

 

[tadawson]

I note on our DSG Passat, that braking often induces a transmission downshift, which makes it feel like the brakes grabbed tighter suddenly, but in reality, my brakes react fine, but I do have to be prepared to let up if a downshift happens, or things can get kind of harsh.

If you apply the brakes in neutral, does it react the same?

And the big thing that comes out at me, is that you state that the brake *PEDAL* (your car is npt trying to sell you anything, which is the meaning of 'peddle', but I digress . . ) requires half travel before you feel braking. In my experience, that is not normal in any vehicle I have ever owned or driven.

- Tim

 

[jrt750]

Friends I'm not just some whinny nut , I'm a licensed Millwright "Industrial Mechanic" I understand how these things work . It's under warranty so I cant start taking it apart . I'm sure there is someway of dealing with this , I just need to find out mechanically why its doing this . Then I can figure out what will be the next step.

I do like my car I just want it to work properly.


John

 

[Serra]

Serra, I did have someone else drive the car. He also believes there is too much of a delay between the foot and the car slowing down. He noticed it mostly during the lower speeds but I notice it both at higher speeds and lower.

True, but I got from what you said that you told them about the problem, then had them drive it and they verified it. It is very easy for people to see a problem that isn't there when they are looking for a specific issue. How about having someone drive and and say, "Do my breaks feel mushy?" and see if they notice the delay.

I did test my Passat today to see if I could detect a delay in the breaking, knowing you had the issue. Even looking specifically for it, I was unable to attribute anything like a breaking delay to my car (which has the DSG). My breaks work when I push the peddle, just like every car and truck I've ever driven, American or German. The only one that wasn't like that was one time in my Suziki, when I pushed the breaks and nothing at all happened. So I pulled the emergency break, it too didn't work. Lucky it happened in the parking lot next to a car repair place. I flew out into the road, then flew back in to the parking lot at the next exit and coasted to a stop. That was not fun.

 

[jrt750]

Let me describe my issue in my words and someone understanding how the brakes work will understand exactly what I’m experiencing. There is a square cross section seal for the caliper /piston; this is typical of all the vehicles that I have ever worked on including motorcycles. This seal is designed to seal the brake fluid in and still allow the piston to move against the rotor without the seal slipping. This action stretches the seal slightly. When you release the brake the stretched seal pulls the piston back off the rotor. This is supposed to be very slight…… to me it seems like it is pulling it to far back and when you apply the brakes again you have to take up this slack before the pads touch the rotor. Hence the gap in the brake pedal action or delayed as mentioned by [FONT=&quot]Michelle[/FONT]. Now has VW reinvented the typical seal system and used something else I don’t know or perhaps it’s something to do with the brake booster?

Friends have driven my car they also feel something is wrong.
I’d like to add my Jetta is not a diesel but this forum is the only place to date that I’ve been able to find others with a Jetta with similar problems. So Michelle from Innisfil Ontario the only difference from your car and mine is the engine. Brakes are the same. Vacuum is generated differently for gas and diesel engines but brakes are still the same.


John

2014 Jetta 2L gas Turtle ... 16K to date don't get me wrong I like my Turtle

 

[LarBear]

My '13 Jetta TDI w/DSG downshifted abruptly when slowing early on, but now it just downshifts what I'd consider normally. I can feel it downshifting, but it's not near neck snapping anymore. As far as the brakes go when I put my foot on the brakes the car starts to slow down, when I put my foot down harder it slows down faster. Just exactly what I'd expect.

The moron at the dealer who said it's because it's a German car needs to be beaten about the head and shoulders with something heavy. A transaxle with CV joint attached maybe. German cars start and stop just like anyone else's do, only usually better.

This is a problem and needs to be fixed. If the local dealer is incapable of doing the job contact VW NA or whoever the importer is where you are and raise a major stink. Politely, but make sure that they understand that the dealer is of no help and the car isn't stopping as it should.

Any of you who are old enough may remember the Uniroyal "Rain Tire" that was supposed to have near miraculous stopping ability in the rain caused the car I had a pair mounted on to feel like it was accelerating when I hit the brakes. Any change in breaking or acceleration caused massive squirreliness in the wet. Fortunately those tires wore out VERY quickly. Could it be a tire problem on the Jetta's reporting this strange behavior?

 

[jrt750]

Just put snows on it Saturday, no change in brakes .

 

[maybe368]

For what it's worth, my standard transmission '14 Beetle stops beautifully. That said, it must be something to do with the auto and accompanying software. Any dealer that poo-poos a braking issue is an idiot on his smartest day. I had a '66 Porsche 912 with a single circuit braking system which would flat put you into the windshield, so I know that the Germans knew about stopping a car way back then...Mark

 

[tadawson]

I say again, see if the behaviour changes when in neutral . .

- Tim

 

[jrt750]

Tim I went out and tried it . Its a 6 speed auto.


In neutral , in drive mode , in sport mode and in manual mode .


Brakes responded exactly the same in all modes . ABS works well, roads a bit messy here right now .

Ive been looking for shop manual so I can see all the components involved .

John

 

[tadawson]

Definitely not the DSG programmed in downshift braking then . . . it's quite surprising until you get used to it . . . so definitely a problem.

- Tim

 

[rwolff]

Hi Im new VW Jetta owner and Im having the same problem I asked the dealer to check it they said it is normal.

Sounds like "brake lag" to me, and it's normal - IF your Jetta has been retrofitted with air brakes. If it's still got the OEM hydraulics, it's not normal.

 

[DPM]

are we just talking about pedal travel here perhaps?

 

[Mike in Anchorage]

I have an 09 DSG and the brakes have always worked just as I would expect. Something is amiss with your car and with every other car acting this way. Make a report to NHSTA and document the responses you're getting. If this is occurring with many owners, the feds will take note and will ask for a recall, or demand one if nothing happens as more complaints are filed. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Southpaw80]

I think at least one of the calipers is stuck and not sliding properly. When this happens, only the inside pad (piston side) is applying pressure when the brake pedal is pressed.

 

[noshametogame]

This is great feedback ! Thank you everyone !

Serra, my boyfriend (who happened to be my passenger that test drove the jetta for me) noticed the braking issue as a passenger before he even drove the car. He was teasing me about my driving skills and the fact that I take too long to brake. I explained that it was the car hence the reason he test drove it afterwards.

tadawson- sorry *pedal* ... I will try applying in neutral and advise.

LarBear, I also notice the abrupt downshift. I questioned this during my initial test drive with my salesperson... He mentioned that this is normal for the diesel engine. I notice it even more in "sport mode".
Exiting the highway, my food will be on the pedal, it will downshift 9sometimes abruptly), then it will start to slow....

jrt750, describing your issue in your words was clear as mud to me...haha- but I'm hoping this makes sense to others that can chime in.
My diagnostic service appointment is at 9am tomorrow morning. I will be sure to keep the thread up-to-date with the findings.

I was told that there was a $110.00 diagnostic fee that could potentially be waived if they find that there is indeed an issue that is covered under warranty.... I will put up a stink if I have to pay for something I've complained about at my last two service appointments.

 

[noshametogame]

**UPDATE**

I had a service appointment booked for this past Saturday. After sitting in the lovely lobby for aprox an hour, I was approached by the Service Representative to advise that he wasn't quite sure why they booked me into an appointment on a Saturday as they require the assistance of VW Canada to move forward with the existing issue.

He confirmed that when the technician took the car for a test drive, there was indeed an issue with the braking and referred to it as "spongy at the top".

His option at the time was to locate the dealership's "loaner cars" and they would keep the car for the weekend and deal with VW Canada today (Monday).

After a while of searching, he came to discover that a loaner car was not available to me. He asked me to call back Monday to get booked in for later tonight and they will provide me with a rental car while they keep my car for more diagnostic / and or repairs after they speak with VW Canada.

.....so why let me leave the dealership with a car that has brake issues????

Anyways, here it is Monday morning and I will be sure to call the dealership to make these arrangements to bring my car back to them.

Once again, I will keep the thread up to speed and let you know what's going on.

 

[maybe368]

.....so why let me leave the dealership with a car that has brake issues????

That is what I was saying in an earlier post, that dealership must be crazy. They should have rented you a vehicle from a rental company. If you were to wreck, they would own the liability if the brakes are a factor at all. I can't imagine a scenario where the brakes would not be involved. I would start a log of everything that has happened re the brakes and turn it over to your lawyer. If it were to happen, he or she would be very happy at a slam dunk case...Mark

 

[LVPAJetta]

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

If you're concerned with the performance of the brakes, then you could always file a complaint with the NHTSA. If I saw correctly, "noshame" and "jrt750" seem like they are having similar issues. Filing iwth the NHTSA starts the investigation process if this is a broader issue.

 

[LVPAJetta]

Doh!!! Just noticed at least one of you is from Canada... NHTSA won't help unless there is a Canadian equivilant.

 

[jrt750]

Yes we are both in Canada ....Eh.

 

[noshametogame]

Update !!

So Here we are Wednesday Morning. I did as I was asked and called the dealership this past Monday only to be told that the Manager called in sick and they didn't have any authority to make decisions without him there !!!! UGH!!!!

I was asked to call back again on Tuesday (yesterday) and we will have something on the go.

I called back only to get the run around with voice mail tagging.... Finally my last voice message wasn't very pleasant and I basically advised this service representative that HE was the one that allowed me to leave the dealership on Saturday morning KNOWING there was an issue with the brakes as it was confirmed by his technician .... I went on about litigation and and got a call back pretty darn quickly.

I was asked to come into the dealership that night to pick up a loaner car.

I did as I was asked. The loaner car is a 2011 Jetta (gas) and the braking is MUCH different then in my car. The pedal travels a little more then mine but at least it stops!! I pulled into my driveway and when the headlights light up the garage doors I noticed that one of the lights were out !!! SHEESH!!! I certainly hope I don't get pulled over with this 'loaner"... Ontario Provincial police aren't very nice in my neck of the woods !

I was told by Barrie VW that I would get updates as they have them.

Once again...updates will follow....

 

[Franko6]

brake boost is not receiving vacuum?

You are not the only one with this complaint...

http://www.arfc.org/complaints/2014/volkswagen/jetta/service_brakes/problem.aspx

I would be suspicious of the ABS

 

[jrt750]

Yes I think its the ABS . I went to the dealer and asked why does the brake pedal go down so far before I feel the vehicle starting to slow down .

Service guy and mechanic stated that's normal. Salesmen I dealt with when I purchased it states that the car is figuring out how its going to brake depending on speed traction before the pedal bottom's ........Really ???? He also told me he was a tech for 18 years prior to becoming a salesman .

 

[jrt750]

I am trying to find a workshop manual anyone out there with info or direction ?


2014 Gas 2L Jetta