Debating between an Automatic or Manual 2011 Jetta TDI

[Pyke]

So, I am still waiting to hear from my insurance company, but I think I may just fork out the extra cash/take a small 6k loan to get a new vehicle rather than used since I cannot find any used TDI for a good price.

I am in Houston Texas BTW.

Do the automatic DSG have alot of issues that should make me consider buying manual? I have driven manual all my life, and I am ready for automatic now since I do alot of driving, and Houston can be stop and go ALOT. Plus, I just WANT automatic. But, I don't want the DSG if there are alot of issues with it like I read up. So, is manual the way to go? Does gas mileage change significantly if I get manual vs automatic?

 

[oilhammer]

There is no way I would ever get any Volkswagen product with an automatic transmission if a manual was available, especially since it is usually about $1000 less. Heck, I would have paid $1000 MORE to get a manual in my Passat, had it been available.

And the DSG's shifting habits are probably something I could never get used to anyways.

 

[DWalk]

Opinions on the DSG vs. 6MT from TDIClub members are all over the place. I really like the DSG on my TDI even though you have to get used to 1 second delay when starting from a standstill. Also, the DSG requires additional maintenance every 40K miles you wouldn't have with a manual.

I have driven manuals my whole life, but the Mrs. can't and wanted to be able to drive my car. The DSG is much better than most automatic transmissions imo.

Here is some good information for your reference:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a6/2011-VW-Jetta-TDI-buying-guide-reviews.htm

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/DSG-faq-VW-Audi.htm

 

[Lightflyer1]

The DSG is the only one available. They have some quirks to them but not something you can't get used to. They require servicing every 40k and the dealers charge around $400 for this alone. It can be done DIY for around $130 or so the second time (after buying the equipment needed). If it grenades itself I think it is around $6k to $8k to replace. It is better than any other I have heard of in relation to mpg. It is also very smooth and quick shifting. I too would vote for the manual though as it is simpler, cheaper, easier to maintain and allows the most control. If you have to have an auto though, it is pretty nice.

 

[mo_focus]

i have Golf DSG and Jetta 6spd, i dont notice the turbo lag on the 6spd as much as the DSG. DSG is really fun to drive specially in the sport mode! It will all come down to how bad is the traffic in your area? if you are going to be stuck in it all day then get the DSG(knowing the cost of maintenance!) if you will do highway driving, like myself, then 6spd is the better choice. Better on fuel and cheaper to maintain and to buy!

 

[NickBeek]

I was having the same debate in my search for a vehicle. $400 to service a trans?!?! Holy smokes! I was leaning towards the manual just because I usually drive a manual, but I was considering the DSG. With the knowledge I just gained here the DSG is out now. Thanks.

 

[Pyke]

i have Golf DSG and Jetta 6spd, i dont notice the turbo lag on the 6spd as much as the DSG. DSG is really fun to drive specially in the sport mode! It will all come down to how bad is the traffic in your area? if you are going to be stuck in it all day then get the DSG(knowing the cost of maintenance!) if you will do highway driving, like myself, then 6spd is the better choice. Better on fuel and cheaper to maintain and to buy!

I heard the DSG and manual are the same on fuel economy.

I have driven a manual all my life, but I am starting to believe maybe I shouldn't. One main reason I drive manual is better fuel economy. However, I think I was trained wrong because I also shift to neutral before I stop. I clutch-break too... I dunno, I think DSG might be a better choice for me considering I am new to Diesel. But really, is there a big difference in fuel economy?

And, I plan on getting GEICO insurance for my car, if they cover maintance stuff... so the 400 wont be much for me.

 

[ShawnG]

I have driven manuals my whole life, but the Mrs. can't and wanted to be able to drive my car. The DSG is much better than most automatic transmissions imo.

This is the exact category I fall into. I have a 2011 with DSG and so far--so good.

 

[DWalk]

I heard the DSG and manual are the same on fuel economy.

Yes, there is very little difference given normal driving conditions. The DSG is not a normal auto. Simplistically, think of it as mechanically operating just like a manual transmission but it changes the gear automatically (it has a clutch like a manual instead of a torque converter like most autos). The DSG will actually down shift and engine break while slowing down.

The reason I always drove a manual was because I loved driving a car (not just steering it) and it gives you much more control. The better mpg was just an added benefit. The DSG is as close as you can get to a manual with an auto transmission imo.

And, I plan on getting GEICO insurance for my car, if they cover maintance stuff... so the 400 wont be much for me.

Geico pays for general maintenance on your car? (ie oil changes) I have never heard of this.

 

[Jack Frost]

The DSG is unbeatable in situations where you need to accelerate quickly as one sometimes need to do to merge into fast flowing traffic.

 

[mo_focus]

I heard the DSG and manual are the same on fuel economy.

I have driven a manual all my life, but I am starting to believe maybe I shouldn't. One main reason I drive manual is better fuel economy. However, I think I was trained wrong because I also shift to neutral before I stop. I clutch-break too... I dunno, I think DSG might be a better choice for me considering I am new to Diesel. But really, is there a big difference in fuel economy?

And, I plan on getting GEICO insurance for my car, if they cover maintance stuff... so the 400 wont be much for me.

I think so, i really want to take wife's car out for a long drive but she cant drive standard so she needs her car. I think if i get on the highway the numbers should be the same since the 6th gear ratios are very close to each other.

 

[Lightflyer1]

And, I plan on getting GEICO insurance for my car, if they cover maintance stuff... so the 400 wont be much for me.

They cover breakdowns I believe if you purchase that, not regular maintenance items. Some do it cheaper, some more. Some have reported dropping $1k on the 40k mile service at dealers (regular 40k service plus DSG service).

 

[NickBeek]

Teach her to drive a standard. I taught my wife to drive a standard before we even married. The Jetta is very easy to drive as standard transmissions go to.

 

[jeepinjason]

I am going back and forth on this as well. The financial portion is not really of a concern to me as far as the 40k service as this will be a company car and I will have money set aside for that sort of thing. I have driven both the manual and the auto two different times and I am still up in the air. The fun side wants the manual as I enjoy driving! I had a G35 6M and enjoyed that most of the time, but it was a bit sportier car to begin with and was not my daily driver.

So here is my Pro and Con list, maybe others can add to it.

Pro:
Better experience for a person who really enjoys the mechanics of driving.
Less expensive at time of original purchase.
Less to upkeep.
Cheaper to fix or replace if needed.
Easier to burn out in if that is what you like.
Downshifting can reduce wear on brakes. (although you can downshift with the DSG)

Cons:
Not everyone can drive one. May come into factor if I keep this for one of my kids.
Not everyone that can drive one likes it. (Wife)
More difficult to multi-task while driving a manual. (hard to itch nose while downshifting on a corner)
Sucks with a broken leg or arm. (or both..... from experience)
More to upkeep.
Tough in long traffic commutes.
Missing a gear sucks.
In the case of the TDI DSG the mileage is the same for both.
In high performance cars with the DSG their overall 0-60 time is actually better with the DSG.
Will need to replace a clutch at some point.

 

[~Jb]

I have always owned manual cars, mostly for the fact that I have always owned high performance or tuner cars. The TDI is not a performance or tuner style car in my opinion. I made my choice on the DSG TDI for a couple of reasons, first the dealer in my area had the car exactly as I wanted only in a DSG and was willing to make a deal, but more importantly because as a car enthusiast when I think of DSG I only think of VW.

Lets look at the facts for a second. Borg Warner designed this transmission specifically for Volkswagen, that said this is the only manufacture that I would buy ever DSG from. DSG can achieve faster shift times, and eliminates the torque converter of a conventional epicyclic automatic transmission, and most important, better fuel economy (up to 15% improvement) than conventional planetary geared automatic transmission (due to lower parasitic losses from oil churning) and in some cases better then some manual transmissions.

Not to mention; no loss of torque transmission from the engine to the driving wheels during gear shifts, extremely fast up-shift time of 8 milliseconds when shifting to a gear the alternate gear shaft has preselected, Very smooth gear-shift operations, and consistent shift time of 600 milliseconds regardless of throttle or operational mode.

Sure there are down sides of anything. About the DSG, added operational cost, maintenance fees, ect. but (for me) the opportunity to own and experience the great technology that is the Direct Shift Gearbox, I am willing to take my chances.

 

[BarrieCommuter]

i went from the 01M tranny to the 6MT without knowing a thing about manual transmissions. for me i couldn't be happier. i specifically went with the 6MT because of the kms i would accumulate, and knowing the costs i would have had to absorb with the DSG, and knowing that there is likely a chance of metal wear on the DSG and the eventual cost to replace such DSG down the very distant road. replacing a clutch costs much less than replacing a complete tranny.

 

[Savageman69]

1400 dollars more for dsg here...they can keep it. Not to mention 400+ plus service changes on the dsg plus my last manual vw went 300,000 with no tranny issues

 

[vwtom]

Manual vs Auto (DSG)

In the last few days I saw two newer sales that were on the "for sale" sight because the wives did not want to drive a manual. The extra money for the DSG probably looked cheap to them at that point. If there is any question of whether everyone is committed to a manual, I would be hesitant to go that route.

 

[cush]

Hi guys. I'm a new member here also in the market for a 2011 Jetta TDI. I spent a week or two comparing and considering the 2010 versus the 2011. Now that I've decided on the 2011, I'm in the same situation as some of you; deciding between the DSG and manual.

For what it's worth, my brother has a 2009 JSW with DSG and he absolutely loves it. I've also driven it a few times and was surprised at how fun it is to drive, for an automatic. I'm with a lot of you in that I really prefer driving a manual transmission, for the fun factor. But I also live in Seattle and spend at least half of my time sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic. So lack of a manual clutch might not be such a bad thing.

I'm guessing my decision may come down to that of TCO. I've seen people mention $1k worth of extra maintenance for the DSG, every 40,000 miles. But it would be nice to see some statistics that talk about how reliable the DSG is in the longer term (i.e. over say 100,000 miles). That's really my biggest concern.

 

[Savageman69]

Well ive seen tons of dsg problem videos on youtube if thats worth anything. I like most guys here wont own a vw auto unless i have no other choice...like a touareg but if i can get a manual i will every time. Manual is just cheaper to fix, last longer, cheaper to maintain. Really comes down to personal preference.

 

[Pyke]

Do all DSG have problems or are they just few and far between? Manual sounds cheaper, but I sit in bumper to bumper alot and drive all the time, so auto is just easier.

 

[~Jb]

This entire thread thus far is people talking about what they have read, seen, heard about, blah blah blah. Here is the truth, like any automotive component if you maintain it and treat it with respect yet still have fun, it will last.

This is not the first generation of the DSG, and I am sure like every auto manufacture that VW has put hundreds of thousands of miles and research and development on this technology to perform for many miles, again if used correctly.

Its even more simple, if maintenance, tuning, and most importantly cost is holding you back then DSG is not for you. If you have plans to personally flush your transmission, swap a clutch, or drop your transmission if need be, and you have no interest in the maintenance or cost associated with DSG then manual is for you.

Goodluck, I cant imagine that you would be uphappy either way.

~jb

 

[oilhammer]

This is not the first generation of the DSG, and I am sure like every auto manufacture that VW has put hundreds of thousands of miles and research and development on this technology to perform for many miles, again if used correctly.

~jb

I had to chuckle at this statement. First, the 02E is in fact the 'first generation' of the DSG, same since 2004. Second, as for the hundreds of thousands of miles of testing, you realize we are talking about a Volkswagen here, right? As big of a fan as I am, I find it hard to believe that if they REALLY tested these things correctly that we'd see tooefed HPFPs before the car's first oil change, or frozen ice chunks in the intercooler causing instant engine catastrophy, not to mention the fact that the DSG itself has been subject of several recalls already.

I love my Volkswagens, and the cars in general, but there is always something amiss it seems with their durability testing. When I was at the dealer, we had brand new cars rolling off the truck with broken power window regulators.... how does that happen if they really 'tested' them for hundreds of thousands of miles?

 

[~Jb]

I had to chuckle at this statement. First, the 02E is in fact the 'first generation' of the DSG, same since 2004. Second, as for the hundreds of thousands of miles of testing, you realize we are talking about a Volkswagen here, right? As big of a fan as I am, I find it hard to believe that if they REALLY tested these things correctly that we'd see tooefed HPFPs before the car's first oil change, or frozen ice chunks in the intercooler causing instant engine catastrophy, not to mention the fact that the DSG itself has been subject of several recalls already.


I love my Volkswagens, and the cars in general, but there is always something amiss it seems with their durability testing. When I was at the dealer, we had brand new cars rolling off the truck with broken power window regulators.... how does that happen if they really 'tested' them for hundreds of thousands of miles?

I had to actually chuckle, because of the few paragraphs I wrote you managed to pluck the furthest thing from the topic at hand, but since you brought it up, lets chat. This is my first VW and I will admit to anyone that asks me why I have not owned a VW or any German car for that matter in the past, and the answer is, reliability. I know very well that VW does test all of their models, actually here in AZ at their desert proving grounds less then ten miles from where I am employed.

I did not post in this thread claiming to a VW master mechanic, nor do I even feel that I am well enough educated about VW to give expert advice, but what I am a seasoned veteran of is all things automotive related. That said I feel comfortable saying that unless someone with a MKVI post in this thread that their DSG transmission has failed due to normal use, then every post in this thread is hearsay.

This is not my first forum membership, nor will be my last and the one thing that erks me the most is average joe discrediting designers, engineers, mechanics, ect. thanks to the power of Google. A little common sense goes along way, ie. you cannot have your cake and eat it too, there are trade offs in everything. Back to me never owning a VW or any other German car in the past? Even more simple, cost.

I am a realest. This car that I have come to love, and am sure at some point in the future all VW models, while having a German design and heart, are and will be assembled in the USA and MEXICO. There is alot that Americans and Mexicans do very well, as time has proven building cars is not on that list. Should that deter anyone from buying VW? Absolutely not, again price, the price is right, VW is making the profit they want, everyone wins.

I am not a die hard VW fan (yet), hope one day I will be. For that sake, I wish every VW fan, tuner, enthusiast would jump off their high horse and welcome the changes VW is implementing rather then complain about every small detail, but here is the best part, if you dont like it, if your tired of reading negative review about it, if your fingers are tired of posting a negative comment about the new VW, you can acquire the same technology, same motors, and get your soft touch interior, MMI, Leds, and four intersecting rings all for the premium that VW cut out.

~jb

 

[oilhammer]

Response to the green-eared newb: You are preaching to the choir, man. Welcome to the club! Let's hope you feel the same way 5 years from now (I really hope you do!).

I'd buy another new Volkswagen tomorrow in a heartbeat, no doubt about it. But, up on my "high horse", I have had pretty good views of what they do right as well as what they do wrong. And I am not about to sugar coat some of the stupid things they have done (and continue to do) just because I love the cars so much.

I can probably guarantee I have had more butt-time and put more miles on Volkswagens than you ever have, or ever will. And I have probably seen more than you ever have, or ever will, when it comes to what breaks and what doesn't on these cars. So please, don't take offense if I share what I have learned over the past 22 years, as it only serves to help.. not hinder... the experience of owning one of these cars, because I care.

 

[cush]

Can't we all just get along? Lol. Seriously though, these are good points all around. I've also never owned a VW, as I've always been a Honda/Acura guy. But I think now that I've gotten a little older, I've started to appreciate some of the more mature, if you don't mind me calling it that, designs in German-engineered cars.

Though I'm sure the DSG is reliable and there are many, many happy DSG owners out there, let me just use my brother as a quick example. I believe I mentioned earlier that he has a 2009 JSW with DSG. He has almost 50,000 miles on it and he absolutely loves it. He's been the one trying to convince me to go with the DSG, but get this... He's had his car in the VW shop twice for transmission problems. I don't have any hard facts to back this up this statement, but he told me that at one point the DSG just started shifting at odd RPM's. The second time he had the car in the shop, they kept it for a week and ended up replacing some parts that were either recalled or had been updated.

He also told me that sometime after he purchased the car, VW extended the transmission/drivetrain warranty to 100,000 miles. Again, I'm certainly not trying to hate on the car in any way. In fact, my brother still absolutely loves the car and he'd buy another one tomorrow. But I do think there's a discussion to have there.

 

[oilhammer]

My only point to be made, and this IS on the original supject, is that the DSG is NOT infallible, nor perfect. There are better automatic transmissions out there, there are also worse. If you can get used to its operation, that is half the battle (I couldn't, ever, but it is the nature of the beast).

But until I see an 02E with 250k+ miles on it like we commonly see the good ol' 02As and 02Js quite regularly, I think we should all reserve judgement on just how "great" they are. Volkswagen does NOT have a stellar record of in-house autoboxes. I see too many 02Es with DMFs coming apart (or BLOWN apart), mechatronics units spazzing out, or slipping clutches to endorse them all as a durable, trouble-free, long lasting unit.

I think the DSG is a nifty idea, but like all the rest of the 'automated manumatic flappy-paddle whateveryouwannacallits' transmissions there are out there, and there are quite a few, I have never experienced one that behaved the way I'd like it to behave... not from Volkswagen, not from BMW, not from Toyota, and I hear the Ferrari ones are the worst of the worst.

But again, there are probably 20+ other things to worry about aside from the DSG on cars so-equipped, so it would not be the only thing to be concerned about really.

 

[~Jb]

Response to the green-eared newb: You are preaching to the choir, man. Welcome to the club! Let's hope you feel the same way 5 years from now (I really hope you do!).

I'd buy another new Volkswagen tomorrow in a heartbeat, no doubt about it. But, up on my "high horse", I have had pretty good views of what they do right as well as what they do wrong. And I am not about to sugar coat some of the stupid things they have done (and continue to do) just because I love the cars so much.

I can probably guarantee I have had more butt-time and put more miles on Volkswagens than you ever have, or ever will. And I have probably seen more than you ever have, or ever will, when it comes to what breaks and what doesn't on these cars. So please, don't take offense if I share what I have learned over the past 22 years, as it only serves to help.. not hinder... the experience of owning one of these cars, because I care.

Oilhammer, I can sincerely say that I meant no disrespect to you or any other member of the TDI community. I am simply making constructive conversation.

Like I had said previously the reason I don't have that "butt time" is a direct result of two factors reliability and cost, but when the upfront cost is cut dramatically to coincide with the market segment that said auto is meant to appeal to, then I am all for it. I along with other new Mk6 JTDI owners will and should agree that we bought our cars because of the value of the technology offered. We all had the A3 as an option.

Like you (oilhammer) and a majority of the "seasoned VW vets" have pointed out, VW in your eyes has stepped backwards, cheaping out on features and materials, but the rest of us non past VW owners look at this as a huge leap forward. All of the German soul and TDI tech, for the price of a corolla. I bought my car to drive into the ground mileage wise, and if I get 100k out of it, imo it was a good purchase, anything after that is just bonus. If buying a Jetta/Golf/Eos/Polo or any other lower end VW as a status symbol, or as some pedestal car is someones plan I would say, dont waste your time.

 

[thebigarniedog]

So, I am still waiting to hear from my insurance company, but I think I may just fork out the extra cash/take a small 6k loan to get a new vehicle rather than used since I cannot find any used TDI for a good price.

I am in Houston Texas BTW.

Do the automatic DSG have alot of issues that should make me consider buying manual? I have driven manual all my life, and I am ready for automatic now since I do alot of driving, and Houston can be stop and go ALOT. Plus, I just WANT automatic. But, I don't want the DSG if there are alot of issues with it like I read up. So, is manual the way to go? Does gas mileage change significantly if I get manual vs automatic?

A prominent Guru on this Board called the automatic tranny a $3(k) mistake. I think he is low on his estimate. It is your car so get what you are comfortable with driving, especially if you plan on driving it till it falls to pieces. If you plan on selling it within five years, understand that you will take another hit for the automatic on resale as most tdi owners prefer the manual tranny.

Now, inevitably someone who made the $3(k) mistake will post some nonsense up about resale values. Well, understand those resale values are not exclusively for the tdi engine (which commands a premium over the gas version). Again, my opinions and I have been known to be wrong.....

 

[~Jb]

Well rather then drag this out any longer and stray even further from the original topic, I would say to the OP if your intention was to have this forum decide for you based on this thread, your choice should be clear. Six speed manual.

For me however, I bought the car in my sig for far less then the price of a Six speed manual, and I could not be happier with my choice.

Goodluck

~jb