Dealing with putting back together my fun front strut replacement....

[jeffro83]

So the first time I did my front struts/springs, probably 7 or 8 years ago (I don't drive much), I bought all the parts separately and built up a new strut/spring assembly. I was able to borrow a spring compressor from a big Canadian chain auto service department (for free from Canadian Tire!), and the whole job was finicky but not completely terrible. Fast forward to today, I had to do this job somewhat last minute, and couldn't find any shops that would even rent me a spring compressor, and I didn't want to buy one, so I did a bad thing instead...

I bought a set of pre-assembled Monroe Quick Struts online (terrible idea, I know) for this strut replacement. Also thought this would save me some time, compared to my last go at this job (I was incorrect on that as well). Getting the passenger side strut out of the spindle was a nightmare (as it often is), even with half of the suspension removed to be able to lower it all enough to get the strut assembly into place.

Now my issue, on both sides, is that I can't seem to fully seat the struts back into the spindles all the way. Used a jack to try and lift up the spindle, down at the end of the control arm, by the ball joint, but I can't seem to get the strut to want to slide the rest of the way, completely into the spindle. Yanked one of the two new struts out after I ran into this problem to see if I could see anything weird anywhere. Apparently trying to slowly lift up the control arm area with a jack either caused the cheap metal on the bottom of the strut to deform/mushroom a bit, or the paint at the end of the strut was just too thick, so I ground down the bottom of the struts, where either the extra paint or ever so slightly mushroomed metal was (I think it was actually almost entirely a bad/thick paint job). It's seating a bit better now, but I still have another 3/4" or 1" to go, but I can't for the life of me get it to wiggle any further back in.

-ran a dremel with a wire wheel around the inside of the spindle, to clean it up
-tried lubricating the bottom of the strut and spindle
-I've been using the metalnerd strut spreader for this whole process

Also, I neglected to buy replacement spindle pinch bolts when I ordered these crappy pre-assembled struts. Unfortunately I've got to do a long drive the day after I get the car back from getting an alignment in a few days...hoping the old nuts/bolts will hold up.

So much for me trying to save the $900-1000 on this job...things aren't going so well!


Any suggestions from people who actually know what they're doing?

 

[Tdijarhead]

There is a slot on the back of the knuckle, it splits the strut seating cup from to to bottom. Find an old bolt and grind the threaded end flat on two sides, just small enough to insert into that top to bottom slot. Insert it near the bottom as far as possible, because the tab on the back of the new strut needs to slide down that slot. Turn the bolt 90*, drop the strut into the cup, remove the bolt from the slot. Done. No hammering, no grinding, you can put the strut in and pull it back out with your hands.

What you have done is made a strut spreading tool, they make them for sale I have one but I’ve also had to make one from an old bolt. Here is the metalnerd version so that you have a visual of what I’m talking about.

Metalnerd Strut Spreader Tool (VW)

Most of the newer cars have a front strut that is held at the bottom by a hefty clamp that is part of the front wheel bearing carrier. After removing the pinch bolt, this tool will spread the clamp...

www.idparts.com

 

[Tdijarhead]

Here are a couple of pics of the metalnerd tool in the slot of a knuckle that I removed from a car and is sitting on my bench. You can use the strut spreader while the knuckle is still on your car.

IMG]https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?media/c188abec-910d-4345-b7fc-77eb0465f511.133840/full[/IMG]


IMG]https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?media/5555ff45-59f2-4e6d-ad19-9680157e6295.133839/full[/IMG]

Edit.....I’m not sure why the pics aren’t showing up, you’ll have to copy and paste the link, the attachment camera icon is grayed out for some reason this morning,

 

[Zak99b5]

I've found that the spreader tool will chew the spindle a bit, so it won't open the slot as much on later attempts to replace the strut. Try inserting it from the bottom up into the slot into fresh metal.

Reusing the old pinch bolt isn't a real problem, so long as it's not real rusty. You can always replace it later.

 

[benshaw]

fwiw the damn problem is aftermarket struts are too big compared to the original, this time around i used the B4's and they were iirc just over 1mm bigger then the genuine vw's and would not go in without a good hammering (on one side) as the normal spreader tool dont open enough, so i got a 11mm spreader form hazet for the otherside and even then theres a liitte hammering to be done to line up the bolt hole.
oh and i took the housing off the car, no way get it back on on the car with oversize struts.
goodluck. hth.

 

[jeffro83]

Here are a couple of pics of the metalnerd tool in the slot of a knuckle that I removed from a car and is sitting on my bench. You can use the strut spreader while the knuckle is still on your car.

IMG]https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?media/c188abec-910d-4345-b7fc-77eb0465f511.133840/full[/IMG]


IMG]https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?media/5555ff45-59f2-4e6d-ad19-9680157e6295.133839/full[/IMG]

Edit.....I’m not sure why the pics aren’t showing up, you’ll have to copy and paste the link, the attachment camera icon is grayed out for some reason this morning,

Thanks for this, yea I've been using the metalnerd strut spreader in the lower back corner of the knuckle. Without the spreader in place, I'm getting even less full-seating of the strut for sure!

I've found that the spreader tool will chew the spindle a bit, so it won't open the slot as much on later attempts to replace the strut. Try inserting it from the bottom up into the slot into fresh metal.

Reusing the old pinch bolt isn't a real problem, so long as it's not real rusty. You can always replace it later.

Yea I think this is just what I need to do. Make a bigger, badder spreader. Thanks for that (and yea, surprisingly no rust on my old pinch bolts, so I'll keep them in use this time).

fwiw the damn problem is aftermarket struts are too big compared to the original, this time around i used the B4's and they were iirc just over 1mm bigger then the genuine vw's and would not go in without a good hammering (on one side) as the normal spreader tool dont open enough, so i got a 11mm spreader form hazet for the otherside and even then theres a liitte hammering to be done to line up the bolt hole.
oh and i took the housing off the car, no way get it back on on the car with oversize struts.
goodluck. hth.

Ha, I only worry how terrible it's going to be to try and get these current struts out if and when I actually get them in there! And yes, I'll be taking some more crap out that's in the way, so I can swing hammers more easily today.

 

[BobnOH]

Sounds like the new unit measures slightly larger than what it's sposed to be. If you're going to force it in there, be careful, don't spread the spindle receiver any more than needed. I would be afraid it could break.,

 

[Zak99b5]

It definitley can break.

Different design, but same material--my ahole neighbor spent hours drilling out the top pinch bolt on his B5 Passat front spindle. He was almost at the end, so he decided to try tapping out the last little bit of bolt. TINK the ear of the spindle snapped off.

 

[jeffro83]

Sounds like the new unit measures slightly larger than what it's sposed to be. If you're going to force it in there, be careful, don't spread the spindle receiver any more than needed. I would be afraid it could break.,

Yea I'm going to look to make something just a hair bigger than my current metalnerd spreader...

It definitley can break.

Different design, but same material--my ahole neighbor spent hours drilling out the top pinch bolt on his B5 Passat front spindle. He was almost at the end, so he decided to try tapping out the last little bit of bolt. TINK the ear of the spindle snapped off.

I definitely don't need that kind of headache right now. As is usually the case, I'm often burning the candle at both ends when in times of big travel plans. I'll be delicate on this matter for sure!!

 

[oilhammer]

I have had the same AST brand strut spreader tool for probably 25 years, and it still works perfectly. Those aftermarket strut assemblies are junk. Good struts (Sachs, Bilstein, Koni, etc.) will fit in the carrier better, but the spreader still makes it go much easier.

AST3424

3424

Tools

asttool.com

 

[Shenandoah]

I know this isn't the approved tool, but I use a medium sized cold chisel. I tap it into the slot on the back of the spindle vertically from the bottom to spread the spindle open. The cold chisel is short enough it does not reach the bolt hole and allows the strut to fully seat without blocking the metal tab on the bottom of the strut.

Eric

 

[jokila]

I recently did my struts and didn't use the spreader for removing or installing. The old struts were Bilsteins and the new ones were Sachs.

Of course, I am in the south with less rust so maybe that's it, but I do remember the original ones seemed somewhat hard to take out so I had ordered the knuckle spreader. I sprayed penetrating oil on the contact area of the knuckle and strut and disconnected the ball joint from the control arm. I then used a mini sledge (and more penetrant) to bang on the knuckle where the strut end slipped out.

On the installation, I greased well the insert part of the strut and knuckle, and used the mini sledge to tap sideways from all sides on the knuckle to coax it in. I did use the jack on the control arm with the ball joint back in place, only to keep a slight tension, but not too much as it will cause the knuckle to angle wrong on the strut and deform, in worse cases. Most of it was tapping on the knuckle upper area on both sides and it slid on.

 

[U4ick]

Research the method of using spring compressors mounted upside down to R&R the strut assemblies.

In my opinion, the only way to go if you are working on the ground with a floor jack and jack stands.

 

[jeffro83]

Thanks for all the replies, folks. Today eventually went better than yesterday.

I made a new strut spreader tool, similar (just a bit bigger) to the metalnerd one. It took forever with a Dremel, but it worked a bit better. Got the struts out, sanded down both the extra paint on the bottom of the struts, and the inside of the knuckle, a whole lot. No more crusty stuff anywhere. Greased both the receiving end of the knuckle and the strut itself. Got it much further than yesterday...but still couldn't get it completely seated. Needed to go another 1/4" or so to mate up with the alignment tab on the strut, through the pinch bolt slot.

Found a similar sized old bolt (the imperial equivalent, just smaller than my metric pinch bolt) and used it to poke through the slot....slowly, and methodically hammering the knuckle as I tapped the random bolt through, and rocked the whole strut. Once it was through, I could wiggle the strut a bit better. Still wasn't convinced it was fully seated though.

Installed the actual pinch bolt, but just loosely, and I snugged up (not torqued) all of the other suspension bits I was messing around with, mounted the tires, lowered the car back down to the ground, and while sitting still in the garage, just turned the steering wheel all the way in both directions, to make sure everything was functioning...and hoping that would've seated the strut in the knuckle - which had the pinch bolt, but only loosely tightened.

Jacked the car back up, took the wheels off, torqued everything to spec, except the top strut nut under the hood....I'm going to need some sort of tool arrangement to be able to tighten that nut, while not letting the strut try to rotate.

Drove the car out of the garage, and around the block once. It felt better than it did on my old tie rod ends and struts/springs. Hopefully after the alignment, all will be well...and that this lasts me another whole whack of years


Really appreciate all the suggestions here folks, thanks again. I'll definitely be using compressors and better quality struts/springs/everything next time around.

 

[Zak99b5]

For the top nut, a sparkplug socket works well. They already have flats for a wrench To turn them, so you can slip the Allen key for counterholding the shaft down the 3/8” drive hole.

Glad you got it together.

 

[Genesis]

Yep; the trick with the pax side if you don't want to take off the ball joint and such to get clearance with the driveshift is to put the compressors on upside down. It works.

But do be careful; you may meet God if they come off under load.

 

[Zak99b5]

I disconnected the outer tre from the knuckle amd was able to move everything enough to take out and install the right side strut without compressing the spring.

 

[U4ick]

But do be careful; you may meet God if they come off under load.

Or the Devil.

 

[jeffro83]

For the top nut, a sparkplug socket works well. They already have flats for a wrench To turn them, so you can slip the Allen key for counterholding the shaft down the 3/8” drive hole.

Glad you got it together.

That would work well if it was an Allen socket that I was working with (like most others)....but it's a flat-ended 8mm or 9mm shaft end that needs holding.

I disconnected the outer tre from the knuckle amd was able to move everything enough to take out and install the right side strut without compressing the spring.

This was what I ended up having to do.



Also, I'm realizing that maybe I shouldn't have torqued all parts to spec while the car was up in the air. Assuming that should actually be done with the suspension carrying the car's weight? Or does this just mean my bushing-type parts might need replacing sooner than otherwise planned? Realistically, I probably should've changed most of them during this debacle just to be proactive, but they all looked in OK shape.

 

[P2B]

Yep; the trick with the pax side if you don't want to take off the ball joint and such to get clearance with the driveshift is to put the compressors on upside down. It works

Or just leave the bump stop off until after the strut is installed. That gives you the extra clearance needed without compressing or undoing anything.

 

[Zak99b5]

Or just leave the bump stop off until after the strut is installed. That gives you the extra clearance needed without compressing or undoing anything.

Do you mean strut mount? Hadn’t thought of that before, but I could totally see that working.

 

[Zak99b5]

That would work well if it was an Allen socket that I was working with (like most others)....but it's a flat-ended 8mm or 9mm shaft end that needs holding.

Maybe find a steel rod and cut a slot in the end?

Last resort, you could give it a short blip with an impact driver. It doesn’t need to be torqued all that much.

 

[benshaw]

ZKTOOL 3 pc Suspension Strut Housing Socket,Strut Knuckles Remover,Strut Spreader Tool Fit for Audi, VW, BMW, Mini, Ford ect.Suspension Strut Spreader Socket.

some sell the holding tool by itself

 

[P2B]

Do you mean strut mount? Hadn’t thought of that before, but I could totally see that working.

Yes, the big hunk of rubber on top of the strut

I assemble the strut with an outer tie rod jamb nut on top, install it, finagle the strut mount into place, then let the weight of the car hold the spring tension while I remove the small nut and replace it with the proper shouldered nut.

This technique can also be used to replace strut mount bearings - install a small nut, lift the car and remove the rubber mount, lower car onto upper spring perch and replace bearing, lift again to replace rubber mount, lower and reinstall shouldered nut.

 

[Zak99b5]

Yes I've done that to change a strut mount before. I think on my MkIII.

 

[jokila]

One can also use a 3/8 to 1/4 drive adapter and twist it in there to where the corners allow the slot to spread ion the knuckle.

I have Schwaben strut tools and it makes life easier.

You can probably buy the items individually based on what you need from this kit. It has allen and slot counter holding bits.

The spring compressor is very safe and easy to use. I used to use those two piece sets and always worried about them not holding or letting go.

 

[wonneber]

Here are a couple of pics of the metalnerd tool in the slot of a knuckle that I removed from a car and is sitting on my bench. You can use the strut spreader while the knuckle is still on your car.

IMG]https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?media/c188abec-910d-4345-b7fc-77eb0465f511.133840/full[/IMG]


IMG]https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?media/5555ff45-59f2-4e6d-ad19-9680157e6295.133839/full[/IMG]

Edit.....I’m not sure why the pics aren’t showing up, you’ll have to copy and paste the link, the attachment camera icon is grayed out for some reason this morning,

You may have pasted the link as text.
I do that once in a while.

 

[P2B]

Here are a couple of pics of the metalnerd tool in the slot of a knuckle that I removed from a car and is sitting on my bench. You can use the strut spreader while the knuckle is still on your car.

Edit.....I’m not sure why the pics aren’t showing up, you’ll have to copy and paste the link, the attachment camera icon is grayed out for some reason this morning,

Missing square bracket