Dealer uses 5w-30 instead of 5w-40--should I care?

kgall

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Went to the Audi dealer for the first service, at 5K miles today.
The dealer put in 5w-30 oil, and sold me an extra quart of 5w-30 oil--I didn't notice until I had driven away. The oil meets VW 507.00

The Owner's Manual gives 5w-40 as the preferred oil and 5w-30 or 0w-40 as acceptable alternatives.

One thing you might want to know: I live in Arkansas, where it threatens to be over 100 degrees much of the next month or so--as it has been for the past month.

So my questions are: does anyone think this will make a difference? Any idea why the dealer would not use the preferred oil in the owners manual?
 

GoFaster

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My understanding is that VW 507.00 oils are all Xw30 regardless of what the owner's manual says.

The common-rail engines (yours) use roller cam followers, unlike the flat-tappet followers of the older engines. It's fine.
 

kgall

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Thanks. That's very odd, that the Owner's Manual does not match the real world, in something as basic to cars as oil.

BTW, GF, I've seen references to "common rail engines", but I don't know what that means. I also don't know what "roller cam" followers, "flat tappet" followers, or followers in general are, and why they have anything to do with engine oil. I'd be interested in learning.
 

tditom

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common rail= the high pressure fuel is instantly available in a manifold at all the injectors. Injectors are fired by the ecu.

The follower sits on top of the valve stem and spring and transmits the downward force of the cam lobe down against the valve stem and spring. Roller cams are used on your camshaft instead of a cam lobe dragging across the follower in order to actuate the intake or exhaust valves. This greatly reduces the stress that the oil is under at that point compared to the previous tdi's which used flat tappet followers. That was the main reason why 5W40 wt oil was preferred for earlier tdi designs- especially in the PD engine where the unit injector lobes for each cylinder took up real estate on the cam and the cam lobes actuating the valves were reduced in size and thereby increased the stress the cam lobes and followers were under.
 

maroonfrog1

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My dealer's choice

Both times I've had my 2011 A3 TDI in for scheduled service (15k and 25k miles). I checked into the oil they use, and both times it has been Castrol SLX 5W30 Gold. It meets the VW 507.00 oil specification and is fine for 10k oil change intervals. That 507 spec is the most important requirement for anyone changing your oil. Compared to the universe of passenger car motor oils around, the VW 507 spec is tight enough that there aren't a lot of manufacturers meeting that spec.

I was just in Arkansas driving through 109-degree heat ... but the fact is, the ambient temp outside makes almost no difference once it's above 80 degrees F as to the operating temp of your engine oil while you're driving at roadway speeds.

I read somehwere that the reason that VW / Audi still list 5W40 as the preferred viscosity is the high speeds that European drivers can run for long periods on their highways compared to the U.S. (over 100mph for hours, as opposed to over 70mph for hours).


Went to the Audi dealer for the first service, at 5K miles today.
The dealer put in 5w-30 oil, and sold me an extra quart of 5w-30 oil--I didn't notice until I had driven away. The oil meets VW 507.00

The Owner's Manual gives 5w-40 as the preferred oil and 5w-30 or 0w-40 as acceptable alternatives.

One thing you might want to know: I live in Arkansas, where it threatens to be over 100 degrees much of the next month or so--as it has been for the past month.

So my questions are: does anyone think this will make a difference? Any idea why the dealer would not use the preferred oil in the owners manual?
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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....I was just in Arkansas driving through 109-degree heat ... but the fact is, the ambient temp outside makes almost no difference once it's above 80 degrees F as to the operating temp of your engine oil while you're driving at roadway speeds.
...
Do you have data that supports this like oil temperature vs ambient? especially for the TDI.
 
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CRdeesl

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common rail= the high pressure fuel is instantly available in a manifold at all the injectors. Injectors are fired by the ecu.

The follower sits on top of the valve stem and spring and transmits the downward force of the cam lobe down against the valve stem and spring. Roller cams are used on your camshaft instead of a cam lobe dragging across the follower in order to actuate the intake or exhaust valves. This greatly reduces the stress that the oil is under at that point compared to the previous tdi's which used flat tappet followers. That was the main reason why 5W40 wt oil was preferred for earlier tdi designs- especially in the PD engine where the unit injector lobes for each cylinder took up real estate on the cam and the cam lobes actuating the valves were reduced in size and thereby increased the stress the cam lobes and followers were under.
i like gettin learned on tdiclub :)

...Now i need a shirt with that quote along with "and all i got was this lousy t-shirt" lol
 

kgall

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common rail= the high pressure fuel is instantly available in a manifold at all the injectors. Injectors are fired by the ecu.

The follower sits on top of the valve stem and spring and transmits the downward force of the cam lobe down against the valve stem and spring. Roller cams are used on your camshaft instead of a cam lobe dragging across the follower in order to actuate the intake or exhaust valves. This greatly reduces the stress that the oil is under at that point compared to the previous tdi's which used flat tappet followers. That was the main reason why 5W40 wt oil was preferred for earlier tdi designs- especially in the PD engine where the unit injector lobes for each cylinder took up real estate on the cam and the cam lobes actuating the valves were reduced in size and thereby increased the stress the cam lobes and followers were under.
Thanks! Now I gotta find some pictures, so I can visualize this better.
I agree with CRdeesl.
 

kgall

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Both times I've had my 2011 A3 TDI in for scheduled service (15k and 25k miles). I checked into the oil they use, and both times it has been Castrol SLX 5W30 Gold. It meets the VW 507.00 oil specification and is fine for 10k oil change intervals. That 507 spec is the most important requirement for anyone changing your oil. Compared to the universe of passenger car motor oils around, the VW 507 spec is tight enough that there aren't a lot of manufacturers meeting that spec.

I was just in Arkansas driving through 109-degree heat ... but the fact is, the ambient temp outside makes almost no difference once it's above 80 degrees F as to the operating temp of your engine oil while you're driving at roadway speeds.

I read somehwere that the reason that VW / Audi still list 5W40 as the preferred viscosity is the high speeds that European drivers can run for long periods on their highways compared to the U.S. (over 100mph for hours, as opposed to over 70mph for hours).
Yep. 109 is a bit higher than the average its been here, but I've seen temperatures up to 112 on my car thermometer and 118 on a home thermometer (but that was on the west side of the house in the afternoon sun, so it was bound to read high).
Your explanation for 5W-40 makes sense. Are there any European drivers here to confirm it?
 

TL A3

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Actually, I believe the manual has 5W-40 as approved for all temp ranges. It then goes on to say that your temp range will determine whether or not you should typically use the 30 or 40. Usually the 30 is for mild (warm temp) and 40 if you are going in and out (variable temp range) of hot/cold temps.

Both are supported by the owners manual.
 

TL A3

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VAG List from tech service Bulletin

17 11 16 2010043/11 June 6, 2011. Supersedes Technical Service Bulletin Group 17 number 10 – 08 dated June
18, 2010 for reasons listed below.
Model(s) Year VIN Range Vehicle-Specific Equipment
All 1997 – 2012 All Not Applicable



I edited for easier post reading. See page 7 and 8 and 10 page attachment for 504, 507 VAG approved oils. ( I added the "10 attachment" to this post due to leaving it off the first time, 08/16/12)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93860450/Audi-Technical-Service-Bulletin-1997-2012-Oil-Data
[FONT=&quot]
http://microsites.audiusa.com/ngw/0...s/Audi_TechnicalServiceBulletin_1997-2012.pdf[/FONT]
 
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WutGas?

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I don't know what that post is for, but again, there are NO 5w-40 oils that are 507 approved.
 

TL A3

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I don't know what that post is for, but again, there are NO 5w-40 oils that are 507 approved.
I posted it because Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) are issued by the manufacturers covering corrective procedures to potential issues, and vehicle maintenance updates.
That particular one covers the specific oils that "meet VW 504/507 standards" called for in the owners manual for newer cars (or what ever you car has listed based on model year).
I believe the confusion is when one cannot find a oil container that says 5w40 504/507 written on it. All oils in that TSB meet the VAG requirement of "conforming to VW standards". That is different than an oil producer having an auto manufacturers permission to stamp their product with a claim of "approved by XYZ" on it.
That is VW position, not mine, based on emails that I have sent to them on this specific issue; I would imagine that it is feedback from consumers, and dealership service dept's that more than likely caused them to issue the TSB.
 

WutGas?

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I posted it because Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) are issued by the manufacturers covering corrective procedures to potential issues, and vehicle maintenance updates.
That particular one covers the specific oils that "meet VW 504/507 standards" called for in the owners manual for newer cars (or what ever you car has listed based on model year).
I believe the confusion is when one cannot find a oil container that says 5w40 504/507 written on it. All oils in that TSB meet the VAG requirement of "conforming to VW standards". That is different than an oil producer having an auto manufacturers permission to stamp their product with a claim of "approved by XYZ" on it.
That is VW position, not mine, based on emails that I have sent to them on this specific issue; I would imagine that it is feedback from consumers, and dealership service dept's that more than likely caused them to issue the TSB.
I know what a service bulletin is. However, you are arguing that there are 5w-40 oils that meet VW 507, when the papers you post prove otherwise.

Even according to your lists, there are no 5w-40s that meet VW 507. You reference page 7-8 to seem to prove otherwise, yet that is just a list of all the oils that meet either 502, 505 01, or 504/507. These oils don't meet all 3 of those specs. It is a generic list to show what is available across the board. The list above it clearly shows you that there are no 507 oils that are 5w-40.
 
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kgall

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Here's what's bizarre.
2012 Audi A-3 Owner's Manual says, p. 198, right after saying that Diesels have to use VW 507.00 standard oils, says:

"You can use oil with a viscosity grade of SAE 5W-40 across all temperature ranges for normal driving conditions.
"However, if engine oil viscosity grade SAE 5W-40 is not available, you can also use viscosity grade SAE 5W-30 or SAE 0W-40 as long as it meets Audi oile quality standard VW 502.00 (vehicles with gasoline engines) or VW 507.00 (vehicles with diesel engines) specifications."

Now any ordinary human being (you can debate my "ordinariness" for other purposes if you want) reads that as saying 5W40 is preferred, but 5W-30 is OK.
But the only 507.00 oil actually available in 5W30. And it's what all the dealers use.

Is this really peculiar? Or is it just me?
 

tditom

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Here's what's bizarre.
2012 Audi A-3 Owner's Manual says, p. 198, right after saying that Diesels have to use VW 507.00 standard oils, says:

"You can use oil with a viscosity grade of SAE 5W-40 across all temperature ranges for normal driving conditions.
"However, if engine oil viscosity grade SAE 5W-40 is not available, you can also use viscosity grade SAE 5W-30 or SAE 0W-40 as long as it meets Audi oile quality standard VW 502.00 (vehicles with gasoline engines) or VW 507.00 (vehicles with diesel engines) specifications."

Now any ordinary human being (you can debate my "ordinariness" for other purposes if you want) reads that as saying 5W40 is preferred, but 5W-30 is OK.
But the only 507.00 oil actually available in 5W30. And it's what all the dealers use.

Is this really peculiar? Or is it just me?
You can be forgiven for coming to that conclusion :)
VAG has been pretty poor in their attention to detail to what is printed in their owner manuals over the years- especially in regards to diesels in N America.

Use a VW507 oil in a 5W30 with no worries ;)
 

kgall

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You can be forgiven for coming to that conclusion :)
VAG has been pretty poor in their attention to detail to what is printed in their owner manuals over the years- especially in regards to diesels in N America.

Use a VW507 oil in a 5W30 with no worries ;)
Thanks.
I will tell my technical editor friend that he could make a lot of money fixing bad owners' manuals--and I don't just mean VW/Audi.
 

TL A3

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You reference page 7-8 to seem to prove otherwise, yet that is just a list of all the oils that meet either 502, 505 01, or 504/507. These oils don't meet all 3 of those specs. It is a generic list to show what is available across the board. The list above it clearly shows you that there are no 507 oils that are 5w-40.
I made an edit correction on the page reference for the 5w40 oils being on pg's 7, 8. Those pages show the 5w30 507 oils.

The 10 page attachment in the TSB has the list of 5w40 507 oils approved by VAG. Again, I am not arguing. VW is the one that made the TSB not me.

My reason for posting the TSB was to correct the statement that "there are no 5w40 507 approved oils" by showing that, according to VAG, that is wrong.
 

WutGas?

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And what I am saying is that, based on what you have posted, you have not posted anything showing there are any 5w-40 oils that are 507 approved. This seems to be where your reading comprehension fails. You apparently can not comprehend what everyone on this board knows or what those documents are saying.

I am assuming your "proof" is where they list all the oils in the bottom of document. Please look at the paragraph directly above that list and notice the word "or". This means it meets any of the specs. It doesn't list specifically which one. It can not meet all of them. That's not possible, and that is fact.

Here is a picture to try and help you understand since you can't grasp reading....

 
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tditom

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I made an edit correction on the page reference for the 5w40 oils being on pg's 7, 8. Those pages show the 5w30 507 oils.

The 10 page attachment in the TSB has the list of 5w40 507 oils approved by VAG. Again, I am not arguing. VW is the one that made the TSB not me.

My reason for posting the TSB was to correct the statement that "there are no 5w40 507 approved oils" by showing that, according to VAG, that is wrong.
What you are overlooking is the 'or' in the statement printed on each page of the attachment:

This attachment lists products which meet Audi Oil Quality Standard VW 502 00, VW
505 01, or VW 504 00/507 00 and are generally available worldwide at the time of​
publication.
This is because not all the oils can meet both sets of specs.

The first part of the list (page 3 through the first half of pg 7) that showed the 502/505.01 oils being 0W30, 5W30 or 5W40, and the 504/507 oils all being 5W30 the second half of pg 7 and pg 8 are a clear indication that only 5W30 meet the 504/507 spec, but go ahead and look up any of the individual 5W40 oils listed in the attachment and let us know which ones claim that they meet 504/507.
 

VWBeamer

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I agree, the main concern on the CR engines is that the oil is low sulfur/zinc because they can damage the DPF.


My understanding is that VW 507.00 oils are all Xw30 regardless of what the owner's manual says.

The common-rail engines (yours) use roller cam followers, unlike the flat-tappet followers of the older engines. It's fine.
 

TL A3

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What you are overlooking is the 'or' in the statement printed on each page of the attachment:
This is because not all the oils can meet both sets of specs.
The first part of the list (page 3 through the first half of pg 7) that showed the 502/505.01 oils being 0W30, 5W30 or 5W40, and the 504/507 oils all being 5W30 the second half of pg 7 and pg 8 are a clear indication that only 5W30 meet the 504/507 spec, but go ahead and look up any of the individual 5W40 oils listed in the attachment and let us know which ones claim that they meet 504/507.
I believe I know what it is you are confused about. The only thing I am responding to is your statements that there are no 5w 40 507 approved oils.
Your statements:
“However, there are no 5w40 oils that meet 507 approval....go figure.
AND
“I don't know what that post is for, but again, there are NO 5w-40 oils that are 507 approved.”
And some how you believe that I am saying that the oils that VW say are good to go for use in our TDi's (meet specs and will not void warranty) or otherwise known as "Approved for Use" have the individual oil companies claim they are 507 approved (?).
Anyway, I am not saying that; just posting info on 5w 40 507 oils approved by VAG.
 

TL A3

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What you are overlooking is the 'or' in the statement printed on each page of the attachment:

This is because not all the oils can meet both sets of specs.

The first part of the list (page 3 through the first half of pg 7) that showed the 502/505.01 oils being 0W30, 5W30 or 5W40, and the 504/507 oils all being 5W30 the second half of pg 7 and pg 8 are a clear indication that only 5W30 meet the 504/507 spec, but go ahead and look up any of the individual 5W40 oils listed in the attachment and let us know which ones claim that they meet 504/507.
I believe I know what it is you are confused about. The only thing I am responding to is your statements that there are no 5w 40 507 approved oils.

Your statements:

“However, there are no 5w40 oils that meet 507 approval....go figure.

“I don't know what that post is for, but again, there are NO 5w-40 oils that are 507 approved.”

And some how you believe that I am saying that the oils that VW say are good to go for use in our TDi's (meet specs and will not void warranty) or otherwise known as "Approved for Use" have the individual oil companies claim they are 507 approved (?).

Anyway, I am not saying that; just posting info on 5w 40 507 oils approved by VAG.
 

WutGas?

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I don't believe you know exactly what you are trying to say. Not sure how we are supposed to know if you don't know.

Either way, for any newcomers seeing this thread....

There are no VW507 oils that are approved for use by VW that are 5w40. This is a FACT. It isn't debatable.
 
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