Dealer tells me if I refuse Smog update, no more warranty work

[czeetah]

After scheduling appt with dealer for 23N5 (trying to get before winter, and before a EPA NOx update is released)

Dealer explained "yes, this is a service action. No one knows for sure but if a new update comes out to address the NOx issue and it is a recall (rather than a service action) VW policy is no further work can be performed on car until recall action is completed" and then said if I refuse any future recall ECU update, VW dealers will not perform any (warranty) work.

I'm not saying I don't want this emissions update if and when it comes out - I just don't want to be driver #1 guinea pig who gets it before anyone else.

 

[pparks1]

Hey, somebody has to be first!. Then you can tell all of us what happened

 

[tdiatlast]

At this point in time, it is frivolous to ask a dealer rep anything. Until something official comes from VAG, any discussion here might be interesting, and entertaining (like Hollywood-esque presidential "debates"!!!) but in fact, is pointless.

Patience, little grasshoppers, patience!

 

[BPofMD]

LOTS of patience! As big as this is now, it may be a very long time before any kind of settlement is reached...... 11MILLION vehicles! I'm sure the lawyers will be calling YOU.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

We have a long time to go before this gets worked out. EPA estimates that it will take a full year before recall letters are sent to owners.

 

[DubFamily]

My car has 127,000 miles on it. I'll be watching all the other guinea pigs go in for the recall and see how it goes.

 

[scottysize]

Here's hoping they buy my Passat back. I doubt the SMOG update will improve my MPG.

 

[tdiatlast]

Patience, guys. Patience.

 

[atc98002]

We have a long time to go before this gets worked out. EPA estimates that it will take a full year before recall letters are sent to owners.

Well, in a year either the new Tiguan and/or CrossBlue should be available in the US. Either diesel or hybrid, I'll take one either way. VW should be offering some significant customer retention offers by then, I hope!

 

[Atlas1X]

Dealer explained "yes, this is a service action. No one knows for sure but if a new update comes out to address the NOx issue and it is a recall (rather than a service action) VW policy is no further work can be performed on car until recall action is completed" and then said if I refuse any future recall ECU update, VW dealers will not perform any (warranty) work.

Your dealer does not know what he is talking about. Sounds like he is trying to prove he is a VW know it all. I would say no car manufacturer has dealt with a recall of this kind ever. For him to be able to fortell the future of the recall gods is quite impressive.

 

[Mr. Furious]

Well, in a year either the new Tiguan and/or CrossBlue should be available in the US. Either diesel or hybrid, I'll take one either way. VW should be offering some significant customer retention offers by then, I hope!

I've idly wondered if some sort of credit toward the purchase of a new VW will be one of the options that comes out of the inevitable class action suit(s) over this. Like, "we'll give you x in cash to make up for the lost resale value or 2x in credit toward a new VW."

One of the things that I liked about the TDI was the resale value, and I figure at best that's no longer going to be much of a point in favor of these particular cars, and could even potentially be a negative. It will depend, I suppose, on how badly mileage and performance are impacted by the fix.

 

[MyAvocation]

I would say no car manufacturer has dealt with a recall of this kind ever.

More common than you think, but perhaps VW wins the volume prize:
https://cleantechnica.com/2015/09/2...epa-test-defeat-devices-in-the-auto-industry/

 

[Atlas1X]

More common than you think, but perhaps VW wins the volume prize:
https://cleantechnica.com/2015/09/2...epa-test-defeat-devices-in-the-auto-industry/

I understand how common recalls can be, I meant more on the lines of "this kind" being where a company owns up to cheating a federal test and...

that cheating being done on a diesel passenger car...

and... it leads quite quickly to a corporation leader stepping down, almost immediately...

and.... one of the biggest fines I have ever seen potentially. 18 Billion dollars? I don't think the Takata thing was ever that crazy. I may be wrong. And even Takata wasn't a car manufacturer but instead a Vendor to Car manufacturers so they can do plausible deniability.

 

[kydsid]

The possible dollar amount for the fine should in reality be a wakeup call to all Americans as to how bad our safety laws are and a call to improve them.

 

[psd1]

After scheduling appt with dealer for 23N5 (trying to get before winter, and before a EPA NOx update is released)

Dealer explained "yes, this is a service action. No one knows for sure but if a new update comes out to address the NOx issue and it is a recall (rather than a service action) VW policy is no further work can be performed on car until recall action is completed" and then said if I refuse any future recall ECU update, VW dealers will not perform any (warranty) work.

I'm not saying I don't want this emissions update if and when it comes out - I just don't want to be driver #1 guinea pig who gets it before anyone else.

If he says it's a policy, then there should be paperwork. Ask for the proof (paperwork).

 

[MyAvocation]

I understand how common recalls can be, I meant more on the lines of "this kind" being where a company owns up to cheating a federal test

The article refers to EPA cheating, not recalls.

 

[tc1uscg]

LOTS of patience! As big as this is now, it may be a very long time before any kind of settlement is reached...... 11MILLION vehicles! I'm sure the lawyers will be calling YOU.

Yeah, I can see it now. Class action where we, the owner gets 30 bucks and the lawyers get millions. But a good point to shelter in place. For me, my 2013 is outside it's bumper/bumper standard warranty but is on it's "extended warranty" purchased w/the car (10yr/120k miles). I could not find anything in the paperwork that stated you HAD to take the car to a VW dealer for maintenance. Till this storm blows over, I'll start taking mine to the local Euro specialist who works on BMW, Porsche, VW, Audi, Bentley etc.. (been told they are one of the best auto diesel garages in my area). Guess dealer is under mandate by the mother ship to fix this when a fix is out, but a local garage isn't. Any keyboard lawyers want to chime in?

On another note, a Freepress writer (sundays paper) made a comment how VW's cheater was FAR WORSE then GM's ignition scandal, Toyota's runaway cars or Ford's exploding tires. WTH? SO, guess "cheating the testers" is FAR WORSE then loss of life? This writer, Mark Phelan needs to go tell that to the parents/husband of the young lady who had her Jeep Liberty rear ended and burned alive from the "no, our jeeps are safe" attitude Chrysler took about fixing the rear end collision problem. Maybe it's time to pull out the list of defects (known and not) from all the cars and see just how bad lying to the govt vs killing people compares.

 

[BPofMD]

A friend and I were talking this weekend about this EPA/VW thing. It just may turn out that "after the fix" we may find out that our fuel mileage will turn out to be just about what the EPA sticker on the car said it was! It sure never said that we'd get 50+ MPG.

 

[tdiatlast]

A friend and I were talking this weekend about this EPS/VW thing. It just may turn out that "after the fix" we may find out that our fuel mileage will turn out to be just about what the EPA sticker on the car said it was! It sure never said that we'd get 50+ MPG.

This was my initial stance on the subject. The problem, though, is we have NO IDEA what the ECU was telling the EPA when the CR TDI was certified. Did the cheating occur prior to the certification stage, or only AFTER the CR TDIs were approved for sale?
Did ANYONE ever establish HP, torque, MPG, and EPA approved emissions, all at the same time?
IF the cheating occurred prior to the certification stage, then, well...uhh...we've go a helluva problem, because that could prove that the CRTDI engine was NEVER capable of achieving the balance of hp, mpg, and clean emissions, and therefore, there's no way for a fix.

This may already be obvious to others here, but it's a new thought to me.

 

[BPofMD]

We shall see what we shall see.....SOMEDAY.

 

[aja8888]

I just had the 23N5 update done to my 2014 Passat. I can't tell any difference in performance or MPG. It's a no brainer.

 

[TDI2000Zim]

After scheduling appt with dealer for 23N5 (trying to get before winter, and before a EPA NOx update is released)

Dealer explained "yes, this is a service action. No one knows for sure but if a new update comes out to address the NOx issue and it is a recall (rather than a service action) VW policy is no further work can be performed on car until recall action is completed" and then said if I refuse any future recall ECU update, VW dealers will not perform any (warranty) work.

I'm not saying I don't want this emissions update if and when it comes out - I just don't want to be driver #1 guinea pig who gets it before anyone else.

The car runs the same to me, though I noticed a little less mpg (I drive most of my miles in town, so I barely notice any change), and more regens than before.

The big issue is that THIS FIX does not make the EPA happy.

I think nothing will make the EPA happy except to turn in the cars next year.

Having said that, besides a aggressive use of regen cycling, the cars will need new piping to recirculate the exhaust to really bring down NOx, not an easy mechanical trick for cars smaller than a Passat, for the room required.

Or a hot catalytic converter type canister with a fuel spray to heat it up to the point of burning away the NOx. That is going to be a technical challenge (fire hazard) if it is placed under the cabin.

Yep, perhaps the Passat may be the only car saved from the wreckers.

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

A friend and I were talking this weekend about this EPA/VW thing. It just may turn out that "after the fix" we may find out that our fuel mileage will turn out to be just about what the EPA sticker on the car said it was! It sure never said that we'd get 50+ MPG.

When I bought mine, both the salesman and sales manager kept referring to TDIs getting much better fuel economy than was listed on the sticker. Milked it for all it was worth. I expect most other VW salesmen do the same. "These things get well over 50 mpg on the highway blah blah blah."

Well they were right, but only because the car doesn't pass emissions.

 

[Rico567]

As this thread starts to wander in the direction of the monster on the emissions forum, I think one word sums up the OP: PREMATURE.

 

[TDINJ]

After scheduling appt with dealer for 23N5 (trying to get before winter, and before a EPA NOx update is released)

Dealer explained "yes, this is a service action. No one knows for sure but if a new update comes out to address the NOx issue and it is a recall (rather than a service action) VW policy is no further work can be performed on car until recall action is completed" and then said if I refuse any future recall ECU update, VW dealers will not perform any (warranty) work.

I'm not saying I don't want this emissions update if and when it comes out - I just don't want to be driver #1 guinea pig who gets it before anyone else.

Get the 23N5 done. It may save your turbo from early detonation. That recall came out to change some of the warm-up parameters for the emissions system as it related to stressing the turbo with too much heat before the engine reached operating temperature on cold days (or something to that effect). I had it done to mine in January. MPG and power delivery are unchanged and still great from before the 23N5 reflash.

It's the next reflash due to the scandal that remains unclear.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

As this thread starts to wander in the direction of the monster on the emissions forum, I think one word sums up the OP: PREMATURE.

Bingo! Starting premature threads just results in them spiraling downhill with speculation.

Also, with regard to the 23N5 update on Passats, it is specifically targeted towards turbocharger failures during the emissions warmup mode. If you don't get the update done, your turbocharger will continue to suffer unnecessary stress, which increases the likelihood of failure. If you don't get it done and your turbo fails, VW could deny your extended turbo warranty for failure to comply with a corrective action campaign, the same way they can deny HPFP warranty if you didn't have the misfuel preventer installed.

This has nothing to do with the current emissions discussion, and asserting or speculating that not getting the upcoming emissions update done will somehow void your warranty is not based on sound evidence, as the vehicle's non-compliance does not threaten component lifespan (and it is quite possibly the opposite).

 

[Aviator69]

The "big fix" will probably be the addition of a DEF [bluetec] system like MB uses going forward. Personally I'd like to know who spilled the beans on what to me was a sweet work around on the gov't emmisions test cash grab that really does'nt make that big a difference in the real world.

 

[haunruh]

... Personally I'd like to know who spilled the beans on what to me was a sweet work around on the gov't emmisions test cash grab that really does'nt make that big a difference in the real world.

Detroit Auto I suspect.

 

[shak911]

Is my car affected...I have read several threads and write ups on the dieselgate, but still not certain my 2012 Passat (with Adblue system fitted) is affected.

Initially the Epa list did not include the 2012 and 2013, but here in Canada the news did say 2012-2015 model years are affected, and days later the Epa updated their list to include the 2012-2013 models, this suggests my car is affected !! but wait...

In one of writeups/article posted on here, it was suggested that fitting the car with the adblue system could be one way VW will adopt to fix this issue....well I already have the Adblue...does this mean I am NOT affected...????

 

[kydsid]

You are affected along with the rest of us.