Dealer Stripped Oil Pan Threads

[CarolinaOwner]

Hi Guys,
I am new and have the above problem with which to introduce myself. . I read a lot of postings before I decided on this topic but wasn't sure where to post it.
My girl friend and I bought a 2006 Jetta TDI from a friend about six months ago. The car was purchased new from a local dealer and always maintained at the dealer. I told her when we bought it that I did not expect to have time to work on it and we should always maintain it at the dealer... we agreed. I have enjoyed the car... just did a 2400 mile road trip to Minnesota..,turned over 170,000 miles in the process.
As soon as I got back, my girl friend took the car to the dealer for an oil change.
Shortly I got a phone call that the drain plug threads in the oil pan were stripped and they wanted to put in a helicoil. Then they said it wouldn't work and I needed to pay for a new oil pan to be installed.

I drove right over and spoke to the service advisor and looked at the car on their lift.

For 60 years I have worked on my own cars (except four times total and I regret two of those) and I have never stripped an oil pan drain. The car has had about 30 documented dealer oil changes and I told the service advisor that if they told new customers that the drain plug threads would only last for thirty cycles, no one would buy the car. I believe that if the oil change technicians had followed the factory manual torque specifications this would not have happened. What is your opinion?

Ol'Rattler posted just yesterday under Lubricants...
"As an aside, do not go to the quicky oil change places, it will not save you money in the long run. At some point they will probably over tighten your aluminum oil pan oil plug and expect you to pony up to replace the oil pan they FUBARed."

And that's why I sent my girl friend to the dealer, expecting higher standards of workmanship.

The service advisor told me that he (at my request) emailed VW corporation and they replied that the car was out of warranty.
I spent an hour on the phone today and was told by VW national that they would not do anything for us. That makes sense really since the dealer stripped it.

Any advice on how to get the dealer to help?

If I have to fix it myself, my best solution would be to drill out the hole, tap new threads (all under vacuum) and install a slightly larger plug with a new crush washer and never go back to the dealer!

Opinions and advice welcomed !

Thanks,
Richard in South Carolina
(my other car is a BMW motorcycle)

 

[AnotherPerson]

VW doesnt care what the dealers do. My local one wont work on a ALH. Dont care how much you want to pay. VW told me thats upto them if they dont want to work on anything out of warranty.

 

[KLXD]

Dorman makes an oversized plug you just screw in.

 

[Rembrant]

If I have to fix it myself, my best solution would be to drill out the hole, tap new threads (all under vacuum) and install a slightly larger plug with a new crush washer and never go back to the dealer!

For the price, I think the best solution would be to replace the pan. That's a cheap part as TDI's go.

http://www.idparts.com/oil-pan-a5-brmmkvi-cbea-p-2210.html

That would save you the trouble/worry of getting aluminum chips and filings inside the pan when drilling and tapping it.

I understand the whole idea of "dealer service", but now that the car is 10 years old, I'd be more inclined to take it to an independent VW shop for it's service, even if it is less convenient. (This is of course assuming that you have a local VW shop or German auto specialist, etc).

I understand that an oil pan shouldn't be a wear item that needs to be replaced, but at the same time, it's just one of those things...stuff happens when working on cars.

 

[1854sailor]

...The car has had about 30 documented dealer oil changes...

Why so many oil changes? OCI on your car is 10K miles.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

FWIW, I had the original pan on my Wagon for 295K. Probably changed the oil 35+ times. It was fine when we swapped the engine out. With proper use these pans will last a long time.

I did the first ever oil change on my '12 Golf, so I got to experience how tight the drain plug is from the factory. Not very. I think many people way over tighten the drain plugs.

 

[POWERSTROKE]

Replace the pan.

 

[thesearcherman]

No surprise here. As long as mechanics are told how many labor hours they are going to be paid to do a job, you are going to get half assed work. What really makes it worse is that the manufactures have their own ridiculous labor time books.
.
When I worked at 2 dealerships years ago, we got paid zero for diagnosing the problem. We also got paid one-half hour for an oil change. That included going to service writer to get work order, going to lot to get car, put car on lift, drain oil and grease, supposed 25 point checklist, going to parts department and waiting in line for oil filter, installing filter, adding oil, and taking car back to lot, taking completed work order back to service writer. All to be done in .5 hours.
.
You talk about what a HPFP or DPF costs to repair. I guarantee the mechanic didn't get rich off either, or any warranty repair.
.
It's all about the cabbage.

 

[Herm TDI]

My Advice is to replace the oil pan.
2006 Jetta BRM eng.
03G-103-603-AD oil pan
Once you have the new oil pan installed I would recommend that you do your oil change yourself. I remove the engine oil via the dip-stick funnel using a suction drain.

 

[POWERSTROKE]

My Advice is to replace the oil pan.
2006 Jetta BRM eng.
03G-103-603-AD oil pan
Once you have the new oil pan installed I would recommend that you do your oil change yourself. I remove the engine oil via the dip-stick funnel using a suction drain.

Me too.

 

[maxmoo]

I would offer to pay for the pan if the dealer will eat the labour.

 

[POWERSTROKE]

You can do not yourself. Its really not that difficult.

 

[JB05]

Top side oil change for me also using a 12V pump through the dip stick tube. I do this only once a year; OCI's average 11 to 12K miles. Luckily there was no engine damage.

 

[jokila]

Here is an alternative to replacing the pan. Timesert to the rescue.

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Sert-M1...9MC?ie=UTF8&m=A2N5EWWITZXTMB&ref_=aag_m_pw_dp

or this one

https://www.amazon.com/TIME-SERT-1-...FG2?ie=UTF8&m=A2J41G0RQ2IUXB&ref_=aag_m_pw_dp

 

[BuyMeBackSoon]

Fumoto or similar drain plug. Beyond that, a Yelp review and other social media ding of the dealer can be effective.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

Something you have to remember that the oil change jockey is the lowest paid person at the dealers. Did he use a torque wrench at every oil change? Apparently not or your oil pan would not be stripped out.

If they did every oil change on the car, then they owe you for a new pan because they destroyed it.

You could try contacting VOA and stating that the particular dealer destroyed your oil pan through not properly torquing the pan bolt, but at this point, you will probably just be blown off.

Things like this are why I do my own maintenance. Having to pay for something ANY shop destroys through incompetence does not sit well with me.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

Fumoto or similar drain plug. Beyond that, a Yelp review and other social media ding of the dealer can be effective.

I doubt that any sort of social media will do any good. Just imbeciles reading post by other imbeciles. The OP's issues is with a particular dealer, not the whole rest of the world.

 

[KLXD]

You guys make me feel like such a hack for using this:

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-65400...=8-6&keywords=dorman+oversized+oil+drain+plug

The very fine debris it produces is caught in the center cavity.

And no, I didn't strip the original. The plug has never been able to be removed with fingers since I've had it so some clown overtightened it in the past.

 

[POWERSTROKE]

You guys make me feel like such a hack for using this:

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-65400...=8-6&keywords=dorman+oversized+oil+drain+plug

The very fine debris it produces is caught in the center cavity.

And no, I didn't strip the original. The plug has never been able to be removed with fingers since I've had it so some clown overtightened it in the past.

You could probably chase the threads in yours. I had that on my 98 beetle. Dealer overtightened it, and I replaced the pan.

 

[1.9ZOOK]

Threaten them with the Better Business Bureau
Better Business Bureau
Non-Profit Organization
2442 Devine St
(803) 254-2525

 

[Ol'Rattler]

Threaten them with the Better Business Bureau
Better Business Bureau
Non-Profit Organization
2442 Devine St
(803) 254-2525

The BBB is less than worthless in these situations. Remember that their job is not to protect the consumer but to protect the interest of business.

"I'm sorry sir, but the BBB can do nothing for you and you will just have to go eff yourself."

 

[Ol'Rattler]

You guys make me feel like such a hack for using this:

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-65400...=8-6&keywords=dorman+oversized+oil+drain+plug

The very fine debris it produces is caught in the center cavity.

And no, I didn't strip the original. The plug has never been able to be removed with fingers since I've had it so some clown overtightened it in the past.

If it works, not a bad option. You have to remember that any aluminum debris that might get into the oil will be caught by the oil filter. And aluminum being softer than steel, what might get through would not harm the oil pump.

 

[Rembrant]

I doubt that any sort of social media will do any good. Just imbeciles reading post by other imbeciles.

Ain't that the truth. I'm not on any type of social media for that very reason.

I'd just fix that pan or replace it, and move on.

 

[fruitcakesa]

The BBB is less than worthless in these situations. Remember that their job is not to protect the consumer but to protect the interest of business.

"I'm sorry sir, but the BBB can do nothing for you and you will just have to go eff yourself."

I had a problem with a repair shop when they "did some work on my 12v Cummins".
After getting no response from the shop after numerous calls, I contacted the Vermont Secretary of state office and their business practice division got in touch offending shop and stayed on the case till a satisfactory result was reached.
They really shook up the shop owner who did not want them breathing down his neck.

 

[CarolinaOwner]

Thanks for so many suggestions

Ya'll really came through with a lot of suggestions and experience... thanks.

In the future I'll definitely be doing top side oil changes as suggested, I looked at the PELA unit recommended on one of the other threads. Any other brand that's better for any reason?

Next point... I was surprised to see new oil pans for $130 since the dealer quoted me over $500 to replace it. I have always had to be real careful replacing oil pans not to have leaks on other vehicles due to the oil pan fitting around front or rear main bearing seals. Does this TDI replacement fit entirely on machined surfaces that are easily sealed?

Next.... Does anyone prefer Time-Sert or Helicoil parts?
Has anyone tapped threads with a strong shop vac or by pressurizing one side like I have to keep particles on the outside of whatever we're repairing?So far it has worked for me. Also aren't any small particles in this case on the "good" side of the oil filter?

Next... Why not ream the old threads out and tap the pan directly. ...looks like there is a substantial amount of metal there. I'll always be using a torque wrench in the future. A torque wrench is my best friend... it's amazing how light some factory torque specs feel when using an accurate torque wrench. I can see how easy it is to over-tighten.

I'll probably try as maxmoo suggested, offering to pay for the pan if the dealer pays the labor. That's the best outcome for a busy person. However the service writer was so insistent that this is a routine problem that I don't expect him to budge.

Next... I learned while reading other threads about hybrid and also all steel oil pans. Are these only for lowered vehicles or does anyone recommend them?

Yeah... VOA blew me off but after all, no way it was a warranty problem after 120 months.

I can't account for the large number of oil changes (approx. 30 in 170,000 miles) unless the previous owner was over cautious. Also I have been told that the dealer sets the mileage interval for the instrument cluster light that comes on to signal service and perhaps they set it at 5 or 6 thousand miles for whatever reason they might have.

Also I did not see the service records. The service advisor looked and reported that number and maybe he was trying to justify the damage from a large number of oil changes.

Thanks for all the response to a newcomer.
Have a good fourth of July.
If these are our worst problems then we are pretty lucky !

 

[Ol'Rattler]

I really like the Fumoto valve idea except it being longer than the stock plug would make it more prone to being busted off by road debris.

I'm at 168K miles and always do bottom side oil changes and have had zero issues with the plug stripping because I use a torque wrench every time on the oil plug.

Top side oil change? Meh. Why not just do the process correctly and not strip the oil pan? The correct torque for the plug is 22 foot pounds or 264 inch pounds.

 

[CarolinaOwner]

Ol' Rattler Question

I agree on the use of torque wrenches and I have several in different ranges.
However somewhere on the TDI CLub it was suggested that the topside oil change actually can remove more oil as well as the residual oil in the oil filter canister that doesn't gravity drain.
I'd appreciate your opinion on this.
Also the moderator has a post indicating this thread should be under a different heading. How do experienced members refer to the 2006 Jetta TDI? Should my future posts be under VW MK III-A3/B4 TDI's... it's a little confusing to a new owner.
Thanks for your help.
Richard

 

[Rembrant]

However somewhere on the TDI CLub it was suggested that the topside oil change actually can remove more oil as well as the residual oil in the oil filter canister that doesn't gravity drain.
I'd appreciate your opinion on this.
Also the moderator has a post indicating this thread should be under a different heading. How do experienced members refer to the 2006 Jetta TDI? Should my future posts be under VW MK III-A3/B4 TDI's... it's a little confusing to a new owner.
Thanks for your help.
Richard

I believe your car is a Mk5...

I use one of the Pela 6000 Oil Extractors on both of my TDI's and I'm quite pleased with it. I also use it to drain the oil filter housing as discussed.

 

[JBell]

I've heard of great results with these too. Not sure if the pan is steel or not. It would be dependent on which route you go with them.

http://www.ecoplugsystem.com/

 

[n1das]

I say replace the oil pan and be done with it. Then avoid VW dealer service like the plague. DIY all oil changes going forward and go to a TDIclub guru in your area for major service work. VW dealers have trouble doing oil changes correctly and using the correct oil. That makes it hard to trust them for major service work like a timing belt change. VW dealers are famous for FUBARing TB changes by doing "mark and pray" hack jobs and re-using instead of replacing several one-time use "MUST REPLACE WITH NEW" stretch bolts during the job. Many of us here on TDIclub avoid dealer service for a reason. VW's care-free maintenance program on their newer models is free while under warranty but isn't CARE free.

With my 3 TDIs owned from 2002 until 2014, I DIY'd all oil changes in them. I did all oil changes topside using an extractor pump and extracted oil thru the dipstick tube. All oil changes were done by the book and with the correct oil. The drain plug was never touched in any of my TDIs from day one. 02 Golf TDI - 361k miles of ownership, 05 PD Jetta Wagen - 170k miles, 10 JSW TDI - 102k miles.

The topside extractor method actually does a better job of getting all of the old oil out of the engine. About a half a quart of old oil remains hidden in the oil cooler below the oil filter housing and this oil will never drain out thru the oil pan drain, no matter how long you wait. There is no drain path for this oil. I use the extractor pump to remove all oil from the oil cooler thru the hole in the bottom of the oil filter housing. When I'm ready to pour new oil in, I first pour it into the oil filter housing and fill it up all the way to the top and then quickly drop the oil filter cap+filter into the housing and secure it before the oil flows out of the filter housing. This replaces the oil I extracted from the oil cooler and also wets the new filter and ensures the oil pump is primed with oil. I then pour the rest of the new oil in thru the valve cover like normal. I take these small extra steps to help guarantee no oil starvation occurs at startup. I also park the car pointed slightly downhill to ensure the dipstick tube location is at the lowest point.

VW dealers are notorious for overfilling TDI engines during an oil change. I suspect it's because they pour in a specified amount but it doesn't account for the 1/2 quart of old oil still left in the oil cooler. VW tends to be very accurate with their fluid capacity specs however the specs assume a DRY fill, i.e., it narrowly and strictly answers the question of "How much fluid does this 'thing' hold?" Dealers using the wrong oil doesn't help either.

Stay away from the dealer!

Good luck and Welcome to TDIclub.