Dealer out of g13

[Ooga]

I called my local dealer today to price some coolant. They claimed Audi/VW is out of G13 and have reverted back to G12. Found that a little funny and thought I would share.

 

[Nuje]

G13 has been superseded by G12 evo.
Which mixes with G13 just fine...but turns it kinda brown "which is normal and expected and does not impair function" (or words to that effect).

(Thanks, VW, but I'm gonna stick with G13 from Pentosin or the like.)

 

[Ooga]

a couple local autocrat stores had the pentosin in stock so I went with that.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

a couple local autocrat stores had the pentosin in stock so I went with that.

Good choice.

 

[Nuje]

Is "autocrat" a parts store in the US? Never heard of it.
Or was that a typo or auto-correct gone awry?

 

[Ooga]

Is "autocrat" a parts store in the US? Never heard of it.
Or was that a typo or auto-correct gone awry?

lol definitely a typo/autocorrect thing.

 

[GolfSW98]

I read some material indicating specifically stating NOT to use G12 evo in the CRUA or 2015 TDI engines. I have two big bottles collecting dust...

 

[Nuje]

I've looked and haven't come across anything to that effect.
This TSB states that a car with factory-filled G13 is fine to mix with G12evo.
(Can't believe the best they could do for a table to illustrate compatibility was this C- effort out of Excel (a low-res screen grab at that) which looks like they gave the assignment to a 8th grade kid in the remedial program.)
Factory fill is the top row; "can it be mixed with..." on the left-most column.
Green = okey-dokey
Yellow = compatible, but you lose some corrosion protection
Red = no go

Additional interesting tidbit:
-->Deionized water must not be used<--
"Only mix distilled water with coolant additives per ElsaPro"

 

[GolfSW98]

https://www.vwvortex.com/attachments/vw-tb-coolants-rev-9-2022-02-24-pdf.227763/

GEN III EA288 TDI (MY2015 2.0L TDI CVCA and CRUA) MUST continue to use G13 coolant.

 

[Nuje]

Great to know - thanks for the info and link!

 

[Cuzoe]

For those that care, this is the latest revision of the PDF previously linked...

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10236610-0001.pdf

It no longer has an exception for the CVCA and CRUA engines the the 2015 TDIs. Specifically this paragraph...

Since G12Evo - Valvoline is now backwards compatible with all engine concepts, any vehicle needing
coolant can use this formulation of G12Evo. This includes vehicles that are refilling the complete system
and vehicles getting coolant top offs. This formulation of G12Evo can now be mixed with any previous
coolant variation.

Which replaces this statement in the previous revision of the bulletin...

G12Evo coolant is backwards compatible with all engine concepts, EXCEPT for the GEN III EA288 TDI
(MY2015 2.0 TDI CVCA and CRUA).

Also in the new revision is this...

The latest formulation of G12Evo coolant, by Valvoline, is backwards compatible with all engine concepts.
All previous variations of coolant have been replaced by this formulation of G12Evo.

I asked my dealer if the "latest" formulation is different from the formulation referenced in the previous version of the bulletin. They did not have an answer (not like they stumbled with the question... they told me directly that they did not have an answer). The bottles have no date on them, thus one could assume not shelf-life limited. I also expect a dealer goes through stock regularly. BUT it would be nice if there was a definition of some type for "latest" formulation, even if it is actually not different from the "early" formulation of G12Evo.

Blah blah blah, I ordered some G13. The dealer says they can no longer order it at all (where in the past they could still order, with a VIN for a CVCA/CRUA equipped car). I suppose at some point G13 will not be available. But know that if the dealer does anything that requires adding/flushing coolant you will get G12Evo. If they are only adding coolant you'll have a nice brown color. But they are not, per the bulletin, doing anything wrong.

 

[Nuje]

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10236610-0001.pdf

Boooo - they got rid of the not-the-brightest-eighth-grader-looking Excel compatibility table.

So, let me get this straight: You CANNOT use G12evo in the CRUA, unless it's the G12evo that is Valvoline's "new formulation", which has the same name as the "old formulation", but in no way can a person determine whether the bottle they have, or that they buy, or that the dealer uses, is (a) from Valvoline (or are they the only manufacturer?); and/or (b) is the "new" G12evo, which is OK, and not the "old" G12evo, which is not OK, but regardless, they'll both turn your coolant brown.

Perfect.
(Translation: My hoarding of G13 concentrate shall continue unabated.)

 

[Cuzoe]

Yeah pretty much that, haha. They had a bottle that they said they "use in everything now" which I'm sure is true. I asked if that included TDI's and they said yes even in older TDI's. I then said well I actually have the newest TDI . They brought a bottle out and in my admittedly cursory look I did not see Valvoline on it anywhere. That does not mean it's NOT Valvoline, obviously.

I guess the real question, without an answer, is whether there really is a "new" formulation. If there is there should be some way to determine which is old and which is new (unless the new was only ever made by Valvoline).

Otherwise the new bulletin should have said something to the affect of G12evo has now been certified compatible with all engine concepts including the GEN III EA288 TDI (MY2015 2.0 TDI CVCA and CRUA). I would read that to mean that when the previous version of the bulletin was published there was not enough data/testing to use it the EA288 but now the data/testing shows no problem.

 

[Nuje]

Good question! And as you say, doubtful we'll get a clear answer. 🫤

 

[Kramer]

I can't find G12 or G13 anywhere, I was told to use G40 next time I flush it. Has anyone else done this?

 

[MrCypherr]

I'm pretty sure if you bought a bottle of G12evo, You could use it in your older TDI. I dont see why you wouldnt be able to use it.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I can't find G12 or G13 anywhere, I was told to use G40 next time I flush it. Has anyone else done this?

Most Autozone stores stock Pentosin G13.

 

[Cuzoe]

I'm in SoCal, Pentosin G13 is available at O'Reilly... But Advance and Autozone (around here) doesn't carry it. Autozone doesn't list it all. Advance shows I can order it for delivery to my house but not to store .

 

[Kramer]

Is there anything wrong with using G40? It seems to be more protective.

 

[Nuje]

I can't find G12 or G13 anywhere, I was told to use G40 next time I flush it. Has anyone else done this?

Why use G40 when the spec calls for G12 or G13?
G13 is easy to get online. I ordered some from Rockauto a while ago - arrived within a few days.

Or idparts.com; or FCPeuro.com (who offers a "lifetime warranty" even on fluids ).

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

FCPeuro.com (who offers a "lifetime warranty" even on fluids ).

As long as you are willing to drain the coolant back into its original package and pay for return shipping.

 

[Kramer]

Why use G40 when the spec calls for G12 or G13?
G13 is easy to get online. I ordered some from Rockauto a while ago - arrived within a few days.

Or idparts.com; or FCPeuro.com (who offers a "lifetime warranty" even on fluids ).

While researching G40, I found a couple of write-ups stating that it has much better protection against rust and corrosion. Since I am due for a flush, I figured I'd just go with the stuff that i could easily get from my local O'Reilly's (They didn't have G12 or G13), and provides better protection.

 

[turbobrick240]

Zerex G40 is G12++. As in exactly the same fluid, different bottle. And cheaper. Most people who know about these coolants will tell you that G12++ is superior to G13. No glycerin in G12++.

 

[turbobrick240]

As long as you are willing to drain the coolant back into its original package and pay for return shipping.

They'll even renumerate for shipping if you sign up for it. Very few take advantage- that's how they make it work.

 

[Mountain TDI]

As turbobrick says, G12++ is same as G40 and is better.

How To Pick The Right Coolant For Your Car

All engine coolant is not created equal. In a similar fashion to engine oil, coolant is a complex mixture of chemicals and minerals designed to keep your engine running as cool as possible. Aluminum and cast iron, the most common engine block materials, require different properties from the...

www.fcpeuro.com

.

 

[Nuje]

As long as you are willing to drain the coolant back into its original package and pay for return shipping.

Yeah - I fully recognize that the policy there is mostly a gimmick, just like their "free shipping", which take 7-10days, and upon which they try to upsell you to "express" or whatever for $10-20.

To be clear, I much prefer your "free shipping option", even without the "lifetime replacement guarantee".

 

[MrCypherr]

Sadly living in Canada, the return process and even just shipping takes forever. So I've just started shipping to my PO box across the border and just ship it back out there since its a UPS store. Quicker shipping and no issues sending anything back.

 

[Nuje]

This is true! Even though I'm only about 100km north of the 49th parallel border in BC, that border doesn't extend to Vancouver Island. But oddly enough, it does on the mainland, where there's a tiny little peninsula called Point Roberts

that is ~10km from the ferry terminal. So, provided it isn't too big, I just take the ferry on my bike ($20 each way), ride into Point Roberts, pick up the goods, ride back in time to catch the next ferry back to the Island.

 

[Kramer]

I have wanted to retire to Point Roberts. It's the ultimate gated community.

 

[ohmstdi]

Any of you guys change a heater core I’ve done 4 on 13 passat need heat and defrost in Ontario G13 seems to break down and leave these fish scale type flakes in coolant messing everything up I changed to a BMW blue coolant sorry don’t know numbers but had first winter without issues flushed well didn’t turn brown all good so far maybe 50km