Dealer hints at retention rate for tdi customers, also increasing sales, supply issue

[McFuzz]

[snip]

V60 doesnt do it.
Rav4H doesnt do it (LOL @ the asking price, just LOL)
Subaru doesnt do it
no SUV does it
And half the cars classified as 'wagons' aren't wagons at all. They're crossovers or SUV's.

[/snip]

I beg to differ.

I sold my unicorn B8.5 A4 (manual, black on black, fully loaded, flat bottom steering wheel, etc), took over the wife's A6 TDI and bought a RAV4 Hybrid Limited. The price is heavily negotiable. What they asked for @ 37.2K sticker price I got for $37K OTD (in California - where we have 9.5% sales tax).

Economy wise - I'll be first to admit that it does average at highway speeds; you can get about 32 MPG if you really try hard; otherwise it's between 30 and 31 loaded with 3 people. But in heavy traffic, which is what California Bay Area is infamous for, you can EASILY break 38 MPG and even venture into the 40+ MPG realm. Hell, I got 43.6 on a one way 30 mile commute to the office. It's not an exaggeration.

Amongst the small crossover/SUV options, the RAV4H is king until the CX-5 diesel takes the crown.

 

[GearHd6]

How are you getting screwed on a sales tax credit? Seems to me we bought a car awhile back, and now we sell it --at very attractive price--after driving it for several years. Where is the "screw you"?

Because now they're paying sales tax on the full purchase price of the new car rather than the offset amount you'd pay with a trade in. Dealers aren't allowed to use the buyback money like a trade credit.

 

[Borsig]

I was about set to buy a VW GTI Golf Autobahn...
As this claim has dragged on and on with no movement, and the available Autobahns have disappeared or never materialized fully in the first place (and the prices of the ones I've seen are crazy high), my interest has dropped almost to nil. Every day erodes further my desire to deal with VW ever again...and I LOVE my Jetta. It's been so good to me. VW? Notsomuch.

-T.

If you dont need the room of the jetta, and had interest in a GTI, there are so many nice options for you.

I'd strongly suggest you go look at a mazda 3. It's a strong competitor to the GTI. Its actually probably a better car, and will have more resale value, a better tech pack, and mazda reliability is now ranked 4th.

There are many, many just as good choices out there.

 

[speedrye]

I've owned 5 VW's and my TDI was purchased to be a high milage vehicle to keep the miles lower on my thirsty Touareg V8. I won't be replacing my TDI with another VW and my Touareg will be my daily driver since I fly more than drive for work. The TDI did it's job as my 8 year old Touareg has 42,000 miles on it.

I have no plans to buy another VW, but will keep up with them and Audi on future models.

I don't need to replace the TDI, but later this year will take delivery of a 2017 Chevy SS (Holden Commodore) as an V8 (LS3) powered, rear wheel drive, manual transmission sedan has become a unicorn in the US. It's the last year of Holden production in Australia, so if I want one, it's now or never.

Good to see another TDI to SS owner! Picked up my 2016 6MT a few months back and am enjoying the heck out of it. MPG sucks compared to the JSW, but interior space is much improved and the trunk is larger (not by cubic footage, just by actual footprint). Of course, the driving experience is light years ahead of a TDI in all ways. Since I don't drive as much anymore, it makes sense in my head! Just pick up a 5%+ cashback credit card for fuel purchases and you're good to go.

I'm honestly a little surprised that the 15% number isn't a bit lower after all the shenanigans that VW has pulled, but I'm guessing a number of owners have only had German cars and don't know that their issues aren't normal to the rest of the automotive world. Having had a few German cars (BMW & VW) amongst many American and Japanese vehicles, I've decided that it's not normal for me to have to budget for major repairs. Sure, I'll spend some more money on gas, but in the long run, I'll save money without those major repairs and poor depreciation.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

A lot of us tolerated our TDIs high maintenance costs because we saved that money back on fuel. With the TDI option gone, VWs are just unreliable and expensive to maintain overpriced cars... And there are many better options available.

 

[atomicfront]

A lot of us tolerated our TDIs high maintenance costs because we saved that money back on fuel. With the TDI option gone, VWs are just unreliable and expensive to maintain overpriced cars... And there are many better options available.

What are these better options in wagons that you talk about? I don't see any wagons in VW's price range at all. Not even within 10k of the VW price range.

 

[speedrye]

What are these better options in wagons that you talk about? I don't see any wagons in VW's price range at all. Not even within 10k of the VW price range.

This was my biggest hurdle. I'd hoped a CTS-V wagon would work, but after finally finding one, it was too small to be practical for the family. I'd watched for awhile in hopes that Mazda would bring a 6 wagon here, but that won't happen. Finally, I just went with a larger sedan. It has more usable trunk space than the JSW (stroller will fit either direction now, no more having to angle it across the trunk!), but hauling tall items won't happen. Just in case I need larger items, I added a roof rack, but I've got a spare SUV for real hauling duties if needed. The new Regal wagon looks incredible, but I can't get down with a FWD based platform anymore. In the end, my desire for RWD and a manual transmission trumped my desire for a wagon.

 

[tdiDreaming]

It's all about the bottom line

5. Per VW's market research ahead of the scandal...many of their customers are people that "rationalize themselves out of their aspirations and justify buying lesser cars under the guise of being responsible."

Many of these people (myself included) will walk away from this deal with a clean slate and go buy what they really want. That...I think...is why you see so many people in the "what car are you buying?" thread talking about luxury cars, trucks, SUV's, sports cars, etc. They settled for a VW TDI...and now they want to go get whatever it is that they actually want to be driving.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ssion-volkswagen-group-clean-diesel/82376012/

From the linked article, it's difficult to tell if this "research" was just general research on its target consumers or if it was tied directly to the scandal. However, given that the TDI versions of each model seem to rank among the top end of the line (cost-wise) it is disappointing to see VW assume the worst in its owners and not at least try to be opportunistic in working with the dealers to make some fair attempts to retain its higher paying customers.

I for one bought UP to my TDI Passat because of my long commute and tried to make an intelligent purchase based on the advertised benefits (fuel economy, "go further" capability).

Unfortunately, I personally see VW's actions (or lack of actions in this case; retention) as a cold and calculated move. If there is even a chance that VW can re-release a portion of the "fixed" TDI's and recover a chunk of the buyback money spent I really don't see any reason why they would spend another dime than dictated by the court order to try and put former TDI owners into gassers. My guess is that it would be more financially beneficial for them to put that money into the nicest returned vehicles to get them fixed (especially if some of the fixes are software only) and get them back on a dealership lot as quickly as possible.

Assuming that a company as big as VW in a financially awkward situation would care more about its customers than recovering their money is giving them too much credit.

 

[ezshift5]

I'm on hold returning my 2014 6sp manual with 43K miles. All my paperwork is in and my approved offer was accepted by me and my notarized paperwork was also accepted. I will set my buyback appointment when I hear word from my dealer about my Silk Blue Alltrack SE 6sp Manual that is on order.
love my car. I simply love it. It's perfect for me

Before I got my JSW, I sold an otherwise perfect 2012 AWD Acura TL with AWD and 6sp manual.

Did I say that I love my JSW?

Hola Senor B..................

Have rcvd - generous - buyback offer for my 2013 JSW TDI 6M.

Admire Alltrack 6M (have not ordered one tho')

Like you, I love the JSW 6M

And - similar but not as high on the food chain as you - had a Honda 3.0 liter V-6 6M thru 145,000 miles.................flawless, fast, fuel efficient......................highway numbers were unf******believable!!

Have not uploaded notarized offer acceptance yet.

Do you perceive any negatives in delaying - say until late 2017 - the notarized 8 page - I'm in CA - offer upload?

Enjoyed your post - and seeing a similar mindset.

best. ez
​

 

[narongc73]

People didn't buy the tdi for being "clean diesel." People bought because most of them are cheap bastids wanting better economy. Great for people who have long commutes.

 

[TurnOne]

People didn't buy the tdi for being "clean diesel." People bought because most of them are cheap bastids wanting better economy. Great for people who have long commutes.

Pretty much. I love the 48 mpg actual I have over 55k miles. 500-650 miles per tank are the norm.

I'm willing to pay more upfront to keep the operating cost per mile down. It's all in my head, but when something eats up the fuel, it takes away some of my desire to use it.

Likely because I'm a cheap bastard on some things.

 

[Tenebrae]

If you dont need the room of the jetta, and had interest in a GTI, there are so many nice options for you.

I'd strongly suggest you go look at a mazda 3. It's a strong competitor to the GTI. Its actually probably a better car, and will have more resale value, a better tech pack, and mazda reliability is now ranked 4th.

There are many, many just as good choices out there.

Thanks, Borsig. I test drove the Mazda 6 and was not impressed. Maybe the 3 would have been better, but I thought the interior was odd. The dealer was super to deal with, and very understanding of my situation. I would recommend Billy at Premier Mazda of Kansas City, MO for anybody in the area for a no pressure experience.

Currently topping my list are the Subaru Impreza, Honda Civic, and maybe a Chevrolet Cruze or Malibu. I had a burst of nostalgia when I remembered my dad's 1980 Chevy Malibu Classic.
For me, I think it will come down to cost, comfort, and reliability. I wanted to keep my performance, but I do not think it was meant to be.

-T.

 

[Borsig]

Thanks, Borsig. I test drove the Mazda 6 and was not impressed. Maybe the 3 would have been better, but I thought the interior was odd. The dealer was super to deal with, and very understanding of my situation. I would recommend Billy at Premier Mazda of Kansas City, MO for anybody in the area for a no pressure experience.

Currently topping my list are the Subaru Impreza, Honda Civic, and maybe a Chevrolet Cruze or Malibu. I had a burst of nostalgia when I remembered my dad's 1980 Chevy Malibu Classic.
For me, I think it will come down to cost, comfort, and reliability. I wanted to keep my performance, but I do not think it was meant to be.

-T.

GM makes horrible looking cars at the moment. Everything they produce looks like a rental. Subaru? maybe but I felt they looked cheap and plastic like. The 2017 is a good choice, mostly, I dont care fir the tinnyness of the car but its better than the GM and subaru by far.

The 3 is nothing like the 6. If I wanted a small, zippy car that was enjoyable, it would likely be a GTI or 3.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

From the linked article, it's difficult to tell if this "research" was just general research on its target consumers or if it was tied directly to the scandal. However, given that the TDI versions of each model seem to rank among the top end of the line (cost-wise) it is disappointing to see VW assume the worst in its owners and not at least try to be opportunistic in working with the dealers to make some fair attempts to retain its higher paying customers.

I for one bought UP to my TDI Passat because of my long commute and tried to make an intelligent purchase based on the advertised benefits (fuel economy, "go further" capability).

Unfortunately, I personally see VW's actions (or lack of actions in this case; retention) as a cold and calculated move. If there is even a chance that VW can re-release a portion of the "fixed" TDI's and recover a chunk of the buyback money spent I really don't see any reason why they would spend another dime than dictated by the court order to try and put former TDI owners into gassers. My guess is that it would be more financially beneficial for them to put that money into the nicest returned vehicles to get them fixed (especially if some of the fixes are software only) and get them back on a dealership lot as quickly as possible.

Assuming that a company as big as VW in a financially awkward situation would care more about its customers than recovering their money is giving them too much credit.

That was more relating to their customers in general.

 

[MBellantone]

Hola Senor B..................

Have rcvd - generous - buyback offer for my 2013 JSW TDI 6M.

Admire Alltrack 6M (have not ordered one tho')

Like you, I love the JSW 6M

And - similar but not as high on the food chain as you - had a Honda 3.0 liter V-6 6M thru 145,000 miles.................flawless, fast, fuel efficient......................highway numbers were unf******believable!!

Have not uploaded notarized offer acceptance yet.

Do you perceive any negatives in delaying - say until late 2017 - the notarized 8 page - I'm in CA - offer upload?

Enjoyed your post - and seeing a similar mindset.

best. ez
​

Hi EZ,

No, I haven't heard or know of any issue with being in the spot that I'm holding at the moment. I know that VW gives virtually zero input to their dealers about incoming and that they see a truck pull up and that's how they know. My wife has a Sienna and our fun car is a BMW E46 330Ci Convertible with a manual (Red of course), which will not come out with salt on the road, so I'm really holding my breath on the delivery of the Alltrack.

If I could get an Accord now with the 6cyl / manual, I would MAYBE do it, but I'm always fearful of falling into my cycle of Japanese for 6 months VW for 4-5 years because I get so frustrated with VW. Like I said, I keep coming back and I know why (at least in my brain), it has character and drives like it has character. It speaks to me.

My wife holds up a hand in my face if I even begin a sentence referencing cars. (unless of course, it's about her car and what she needs done to it!), so I hope it gets here soon!

 

[MHC48]

Currently topping my list are the Subaru Impreza, Honda Civic, and maybe a Chevrolet Cruze or Malibu. I had a burst of nostalgia when I remembered my dad's 1980 Chevy Malibu Classic.
For me, I think it will come down to cost, comfort, and reliability. I wanted to keep my performance, but I do not think it was meant to be.

-T.

I had been planning on staying with VW and getting an AllTrack or 4WD Sportwagen, but the Eyesight safety features and infotainment unit of the new Impreza definitely blow both of those away. Even the cabin design on the Sport and Limited, though distinctly Japanese rather than functionally austere German, are appealing. The weaker boxer engine, torque and CVT aren't inspiring but to be honest, other than the torque, my TDI didn't make for much driving excitement either. And I' still have the '07 Jetta manual when I feel like driving old school.

 

[fucanay]

I've been giving VW a solid chance to earn my business back, but so far they've been coming in high on quotes. So much so that I'm looking at other brands that offer more power and features for the same money once their deeper discounts are applied. I'm one the TDI owners that isn't super pissed off and they are doing a poor job of trying to keep me either. They'd have zero chance with someone who is angry.

 

[111R]

Good to see another TDI to SS owner! Picked up my 2016 6MT a few months back and am enjoying the heck out of it. MPG sucks compared to the JSW, but interior space is much improved and the trunk is larger (not by cubic footage, just by actual footprint). Of course, the driving experience is light years ahead of a TDI in all ways. Since I don't drive as much anymore, it makes sense in my head! Just pick up a 5%+ cashback credit card for fuel purchases and you're good to go.

I'm honestly a little surprised that the 15% number isn't a bit lower after all the shenanigans that VW has pulled, but I'm guessing a number of owners have only had German cars and don't know that their issues aren't normal to the rest of the automotive world. Having had a few German cars (BMW & VW) amongst many American and Japanese vehicles, I've decided that it's not normal for me to have to budget for major repairs. Sure, I'll spend some more money on gas, but in the long run, I'll save money without those major repairs and poor depreciation.

Thanks! I did get the GM BuyPower Card after ordering my car and have been using it exclusively to rack up the cashback to use as a down payment.

Will probably be spring when I take delivery. Buying from Myron in Grapevine, TX. I believe he has 70+ cars ordered so far, mostly manuals.

 

[Borsig]

I've been giving VW a solid chance to earn my business back, but so far they've been coming in high on quotes. So much so that I'm looking at other brands that offer more power and features for the same money once their deeper discounts are applied. I'm one the TDI owners that isn't super pissed off and they are doing a poor job of trying to keep me either. They'd have zero chance with someone who is angry.

This.

Im not pissed. I dont even care. Granted I have a new car. Still, if VW wants me to remain loyal, through all this BS, It will need lots of oil.

Im not fond of the hassle and process they have me stuck in.

 

[kulak]

I've been giving VW a solid chance to earn my business back, but so far they've been coming in high on quotes. So much so that I'm looking at other brands that offer more power and features for the same money once their deeper discounts are applied. I'm one the TDI owners that isn't super pissed off and they are doing a poor job of trying to keep me either. They'd have zero chance with someone who is angry.

Agree. I'm open to buying another Passat mainly for cabin room. Me being a tall guy 6'5" and rear facing seats are almost impossible on anything else in this class/price. The other midsize cars on paper with equivalent legroom must have been measured using a different method.

That said virtually every VW dealer in my area (6 or so) do not want to sell cars. They either won't respond to a request for itemized quote for a specific VIN or respond insisting on a dealer visit to test drive and quote. I really don't want to drive all over town to play the sitting game for a quote. I even tell them I'm open to buying before the buyback....

It can't be this hard to give me buyer contract for a fair price over email/fax, setup paperwork, let me drive in sign and leave a check. Why have internet sales team if they insist on a dealer visit to setup a deal.

If I was shopping a Luxury brand this would have been done in a day.

 

[atomicfront]

Agree. I'm open to buying another Passat mainly for cabin room. Me being a tall guy 6'5" and rear facing seats are almost impossible on anything else in this class/price. The other midsize cars on paper with equivalent legroom must have been measured using a different method.

That said virtually every VW dealer in my area (6 or so) do not want to sell cars. They either won't respond to a request for itemized quote for a specific VIN or respond insisting on a dealer visit to test drive and quote. I really don't want to drive all over town to play the sitting game for a quote. I even tell them I'm open to buying before the buyback....

It can't be this hard to give me buyer contract for a fair price over email/fax, setup paperwork, let me drive in sign and leave a check. Why have internet sales team if they insist on a dealer visit to setup a deal.

If I was shopping a Luxury brand this would have been done in a day.

My buy back is on Wednesday I asked some VW dealers if I could put a deposit on a car on Saturday and they would hold until buy back all said no. Every non VW dealer says I could. Also they seem like I am burden because i am doing the buyback.

They have given me prices over the Internet. I only had one person give me a hard time about giving me the prices and it was a non VW dealer and he gave me the prices after about 7 emails. His price was the cheapest but probably won't buy from him if he is that annoying before I get to the dealership it isn't worth saving 300 dollars to go through more stress.

 

[fucanay]

Agree. I'm open to buying another Passat mainly for cabin room. Me being a tall guy 6'5" and rear facing seats are almost impossible on anything else in this class/price. The other midsize cars on paper with equivalent legroom must have been measured using a different method.

That said virtually every VW dealer in my area (6 or so) do not want to sell cars. They either won't respond to a request for itemized quote for a specific VIN or respond insisting on a dealer visit to test drive and quote. I really don't want to drive all over town to play the sitting game for a quote. I even tell them I'm open to buying before the buyback....

It can't be this hard to give me buyer contract for a fair price over email/fax, setup paperwork, let me drive in sign and leave a check. Why have internet sales team if they insist on a dealer visit to setup a deal.

If I was shopping a Luxury brand this would have been done in a day.

I sent 10 or so dealers emails to get itemized pricing on a car and let them know they were competing with other area dealers. Only one came back with exactly what I asked for, except his price was higher than some of the others. How hard is it to follow simple directions. Car price, destination fee, doc fee, DMV fees and Tax, followed by out the door price. Some of the dealers didn't even bother sending an email back.

I hate car dealerships more than I hate the dentist. I don't want to sit there making a decision without getting competing quotes with salesguys staring at me. I also don't want to get nickled and dimed to death once I get there.

I'm going to see what Kia has to offer. The Optima SX Turbo comes in about the same price as a base model Alltrack if Truecar is to be believed and it is much better equipped. I've been driving a 2005 GMC Sierra for a 11 years and got used to the Sportwagen after the wife got a CX-5 and thought I'd get another wagon, but I could go sedan just as easily if they want to make it hard.

 

[Rico567]

<snip>
That said virtually every VW dealer in my area (6 or so) do not want to sell cars. They either won't respond to a request for itemized quote for a specific VIN or respond insisting on a dealer visit to test drive and quote. I really don't want to drive all over town to play the sitting game for a quote. I even tell them I'm open to buying before the buyback....
<snip>

Interesting. When we bought our present '13 Passat, I did the same thing, e-mailed about a half-dozen dealers after we had done test drives on our short list and decided on the VW. I had a callback from one of the dealers the next day. I had looked over the prices people were paying in this forum and gotten a USAA car buying certificate. The dealer that called wasn't the dealer on the certificate, but I wasn't about to go to that one because they are in a high sales tax county. I asked the salesperson if they would price match the USAA certificate, and told them what I wanted. They said they didn't have the exact car we wanted but would try to find one. He called me back 15 minutes later with the exact car we wanted, and beat the USAA price. We drove down the following week and I handed over a check, and we drove home. Easy as pie, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another car from that dealer (Suntrup VW, St. Louis).

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Florida dealer games...

This seems to be a Florida dealer strategy, looks like they've all picked up this "VIP appointment" strategy from the same consultant. Top that nonsense off with their $799 "Documentation Fees" and I will never buy a car from Florida dealers!

Agree. I'm open to buying another Passat mainly for cabin room. Me being a tall guy 6'5" and rear facing seats are almost impossible on anything else in this class/price. The other midsize cars on paper with equivalent legroom must have been measured using a different method.

That said virtually every VW dealer in my area (6 or so) do not want to sell cars. They either won't respond to a request for itemized quote for a specific VIN or respond insisting on a dealer visit to test drive and quote. I really don't want to drive all over town to play the sitting game for a quote. I even tell them I'm open to buying before the buyback....

It can't be this hard to give me buyer contract for a fair price over email/fax, setup paperwork, let me drive in sign and leave a check. Why have internet sales team if they insist on a dealer visit to setup a deal.

If I was shopping a Luxury brand this would have been done in a day.

 

[Borsig]

what is a 'vip appointment'?

 

[kulak]

This seems to be a Florida dealer strategy, looks like they've all picked up this "VIP appointment" strategy from the same consultant. Top that nonsense off with their $799 "Documentation Fees" and I will never buy a car from Florida dealers!

I'm ok with listing all the fees they want as long as the price is what I want to pay but can't even get to a starting number without the dealer visit.

They have devolved into buy-here-pay-here lot strategies using the grind, add-ons, and financing kickbacks. It wasn't this bad when I bought the TDI.

I don't think the SELs are selling well some have been on the lot for months. It seems like the flooring charges would be incentive to make the process easy on a potential customer.

 

[beancounter]

Two types of dealers. High volume dealers with aggressive internet sales teams that are giving quotes and selling cars.

And the old school come on down and we will go to bat for you sales team. These try to squeeze every last $ out of you with $1000 wax jobs and other nonsense. A lot of VW dealers fall into this category.

 

[MBellantone]

I now I said previously in this thread that I'm on hold with the buyback procedure at the scheduling stage. After realizing that my mostly incapacitated father has an Outback sitting in his garage, I decided to schedule my appointment and got one for the 9th of Feb. My logic was that being that I don't want to finance the airware Alltrack and want to pay with cash, I don't want to have to pull $32K out of my savings. I'll have the green from the buyback and just buy it straight out.

As for dealers being civil as a whole, after dealing with no less than 5 different dealers on the purchase of an Alltrack, I had no sense of any extra effort being put into getting me into a new VW. Their aloofness was on par with a car company that had no issues and were churning out wanted vehicles hand over fist.

I think that dealing with the large volume dealers via email will get you frustrated at the seemingly nebulous email replies with no specifics. Don't be foolish, this is intentional. No dealer, especially one who is trying to sell me a car that isn't even built yet, will willingly but numbers into itemized detail with Doc, Reg fees etc. It took heroic perseverance on my part to get my dealer to put it all down in writing.

 

[fucanay]

Sadly, their apathy is probably going to push me to another brand. I sat in an Accord V6 today that was really nice. The Kia Optima SX is still on my list to check out as well. I get my Chase payment early next week, so the real shopping can start then.

 

[razorrod]

I would not agree on V60. It's producing mpg close to any diesel mid size car.
Also you have BMW 3 series wagon and X3. Mercedes have GLA and GLC, E-class.

The TDI wagon was actually perfect for me.

What I really want? a V90 wagon. But I cant afford a 50-60K car. I can't drive what I really want, because I commute 27 miles one way per day. This is a choice, because I refuse to live with the mouth breathing criminally inclined masses in the metro area where I work. I'n not stupid enough to believe I can co-exist peacefully with those people. I don't tolerate others' BS well.

I also REFUSE to buy a prius. Its an ugly, soulless, peach can of an appliance thats overpriced and I'd rather pay the price of fuel that be reduced to driving one. Not now, not ever.

I bought a brand new 30K+ car that got 40+ mpg and did everything I needed it to - because nothing else did. When the tdi goes away (its looking more and more like I'm dragging it to the bitter end) I have no clue what I'll move to. The choices are few and far between for someone who wants 35 MPG+ and 30/65 cu.ft of cargo space for 30K or under.

V60 doesnt do it.
Rav4H doesnt do it (LOL @ the asking price, just LOL)
Subaru doesnt do it
no SUV does it
And half the cars classified as 'wagons' aren't wagons at all. They're crossovers or SUV's.

Only the TDI GSW / JSW did. I still cant buy 'what I want' because I can't justify the cost of operating it.

I can't get what I want, because auto makers wont bring the good options here, because Americans buy the biggest, hulking-est thing they can put their soccer mom wife and 2.5 walking petrie dishes in, so she can out ram everyone else on the road.

"Wagons suck" said almost all Americans.

Im holding out hope for the opel insignia re-badged as a Buick (ugh buick), the CX-5 diesel (more emissions BS problems?). The v60 is nice, and we really, really, like the car, but I lose both size, AND fuel economy. Im not ready to make those sacrifices just yet. 328D wagons are smaller, and over priced, 328i wagons must run on 93 octane, which is more expensive than diesel.

Beyond that? Still nothing else comes close to the actual interior quality, and size with economy as the TSi Golf SW. The MQB is a nice car. Believe me, I've tried to replace the thing with something else without giving up too much space or economy, without paying more than I did in 2015. You can't. It doesn't exist. Not in this country anyway.

I'll say it again, the MQB platform is a winner - for the GTI, and wagon variants. The golf hatch? Youre better elsewhere - many other better options. But for the performance niche, or the wagon, the price / quality of materials is hard to beat at the current prices they are selling for (not MSRP).

For a simple efficient hatch thats cheap, you are better off in a new 2017 civic.