Dealer hints at retention rate for tdi customers, also increasing sales, supply issue

[Borsig]

When investigating the possibility of a replacement wagon, I had an interesting conversation with a dealer sales manager.

I always take what they say with some.......pause.

Sales up 54%. Order book closed, having supply issues. Can't order a car right now, nearly out of jettas. (Sales up 54% from what? The crash in brand trust?)

Tdi customer retention rate very low. Lower than vw and dealers expected, something in the order of 15%. This was the number that was interesting. Thats pretty low. I guessed about 25%.

I told him vw keeping me in a vw wagon is about one thing. Money. And thats the truth. Ilike the mqb wagon. But I have a hard cap as to what I will pay vw to stay with the brand.

 

[111R]

I've owned 5 VW's and my TDI was purchased to be a high milage vehicle to keep the miles lower on my thirsty Touareg V8. I won't be replacing my TDI with another VW and my Touareg will be my daily driver since I fly more than drive for work. The TDI did it's job as my 8 year old Touareg has 42,000 miles on it.

I have no plans to buy another VW, but will keep up with them and Audi on future models.

I don't need to replace the TDI, but later this year will take delivery of a 2017 Chevy SS (Holden Commodore) as an V8 (LS3) powered, rear wheel drive, manual transmission sedan has become a unicorn in the US. It's the last year of Holden production in Australia, so if I want one, it's now or never.

It's bittersweet turning the TDI back in, but the probability for a future expensive repair is too high. In some regards, Dieselgate has done me a favor.

 

[Borsig]

I've owned 5 VW's and my TDI was purchased to be a high milage vehicle to keep the miles lower on my thirsty Touareg V8. I won't be replacing my TDI with another VW and my Touareg will be my daily driver since I fly more than drive for work. The TDI did it's job as my 8 year old Touareg has 42,000 miles on it.

I have no plans to buy another VW, but will keep up with them and Audi on future models.

I don't need to replace the TDI, but later this year will take delivery of a 2017 Chevy SS (Holden Commodore) as an V8 (LS3) powered, rear wheel drive, manual transmission sedan has become a unicorn in the US. It's the last year of Holden production in Australia, so if I want one, it's now or never.

It's bittersweet turning the TDI back in, but the probability for a future expensive repair is too high. In some regards, Dieselgate has done me a favor.

I had a LS2 GTO. (Monaro CV8-R) Holden's death is a sad, sad thing indeed. What a great car that was.

 

[Yukon4Runner]

If the dealer wants me to get a VW, whatever great deal they are offering, they must lower it a further $1000 to account for the sales tax credit "screw you" I am getting. Otherwise, I'd rather get reemed on the sales rack credit loss from a non-VW dealer.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

There is a too ample supply of new VWs, should be interesting to see the december sales figures when they come out.

 

[meerschm]

on the bright side, if only a small number of prior TDI owners are buying VW, it may provide data for VW to tilt the scale in favor going through the hoops to sell TDIs.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

15% sounds about right. If you'd asked me to guess a TDI customer retention rate range early on...I would have thrown out 10-15%.

on the bright side, if only a small number of prior TDI owners are buying VW, it may provide data for VW to tilt the scale in favor going through the hoops to sell TDIs.

The vast majority of those customers are gone, VW will never see them again, and they know it.

There are a lot of factors driving that:

1. In order to make TDI sales viable again (to a large enough audience to justify their re-introduction)...they have to fix their image problem. At this point, I just don't see how that's possible and I doubt very much that it would be worth their time.

2. As much as people here scoff about it...a LOT of people bought CR TDI's for the whole "Clean Diesel" thing. And yeah...I get it...it's relatively clean, but that's not how those people will look at it.

3. Diesel passengers vehicles in general...when you do the math on the cost of ownership (ex. Diesel fuel, DEF, DSG fluid change, etc.) and look at the mechanical issues for modern diesel passenger cars (ex. DPF cracking/failing, DEF heater failure, etc.) most people are better off going and getting a run of the mill gasser. Even more people will reach that conclusion once VW "fixes" their TDIs and the fuel economy and/or performance tanks.

- Ex. My car. Before I took it in for the 2306 recall...I routinely averaged 45+ MPG (hand calculated). Now...I'm lucky to break 40 MPG. That's on expensive fuel. I don't even have to do the math on that to process that I'd have been better off (with my current fuel economy) going with an Accord and that takes regular unleaded fuel.
​

4. Back to comment #2 above. The TDI...for many people...was a Prius alternative. Prius like fuel economy without being this guy (below).



5. Per VW's market research ahead of the scandal...many of their customers are people that "rationalize themselves out of their aspirations and justify buying lesser cars under the guise of being responsible."

Many of these people (myself included) will walk away from this deal with a clean slate and go buy what they really want. That...I think...is why you see so many people in the "what car are you buying?" thread talking about luxury cars, trucks, SUV's, sports cars, etc. They settled for a VW TDI...and now they want to go get whatever it is that they actually want to be driving.

According to the lawsuit, VW marketers studied potential diesel customers and determined that they "rationalize themselves out of their aspirations and justify buying lesser cars under the guise of being responsible."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ssion-volkswagen-group-clean-diesel/82376012/

 

[Borsig]

The TDI wagon was actually perfect for me.

What I really want? a V90 wagon. But I cant afford a 50-60K car. I can't drive what I really want, because I commute 27 miles one way per day. This is a choice, because I refuse to live with the mouth breathing criminally inclined masses in the metro area where I work. I'n not stupid enough to believe I can co-exist peacefully with those people. I don't tolerate others' BS well.

I also REFUSE to buy a prius. Its an ugly, soulless, peach can of an appliance thats overpriced and I'd rather pay the price of fuel that be reduced to driving one. Not now, not ever.

I bought a brand new 30K+ car that got 40+ mpg and did everything I needed it to - because nothing else did. When the tdi goes away (its looking more and more like I'm dragging it to the bitter end) I have no clue what I'll move to. The choices are few and far between for someone who wants 35 MPG+ and 30/65 cu.ft of cargo space for 30K or under.

V60 doesnt do it.
Rav4H doesnt do it (LOL @ the asking price, just LOL)
Subaru doesnt do it
no SUV does it
And half the cars classified as 'wagons' aren't wagons at all. They're crossovers or SUV's.

Only the TDI GSW / JSW did. I still cant buy 'what I want' because I can't justify the cost of operating it.

I can't get what I want, because auto makers wont bring the good options here, because Americans buy the biggest, hulking-est thing they can put their soccer mom wife and 2.5 walking petrie dishes in, so she can out ram everyone else on the road.

"Wagons suck" said almost all Americans.

Im holding out hope for the opel insignia re-badged as a Buick (ugh buick), the CX-5 diesel (more emissions BS problems?). The v60 is nice, and we really, really, like the car, but I lose both size, AND fuel economy. Im not ready to make those sacrifices just yet. 328D wagons are smaller, and over priced, 328i wagons must run on 93 octane, which is more expensive than diesel.

Beyond that? Still nothing else comes close to the actual interior quality, and size with economy as the TSi Golf SW. The MQB is a nice car. Believe me, I've tried to replace the thing with something else without giving up too much space or economy, without paying more than I did in 2015. You can't. It doesn't exist. Not in this country anyway.

I'll say it again, the MQB platform is a winner - for the GTI, and wagon variants. The golf hatch? Youre better elsewhere - many other better options. But for the performance niche, or the wagon, the price / quality of materials is hard to beat at the current prices they are selling for (not MSRP).

For a simple efficient hatch thats cheap, you are better off in a new 2017 civic.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Actually, 15% customer retention is about in line with the poll posted on this site. As for us ignoring our aspirations to buy an affordable diesel... We all aspire to expensive cars, but reality drives us to something more economical like a TDI. $30k was my limit when I bought my first TDI 3 years ago, and $30k will be the limit when I buy it's replacement.

 

[dmarsingill]

You can always buy a used "more expensive" car. I'm taking our cash and buying a 2009 BMW 328it.

Donald

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Good point... VW is operating under the car industry's fantasy that we will spend to the limits of our credit. A lot of us are smarter than that and buy what we can afford instead of our fantasies.

 

[Rico567]

Curious that our short list includes the Buick Regal / Opel Insignia, as well as the Volvo s90 / v90.....but it's a damn short list. And a Pious? Don't make me laugh. Perhaps the two years until we do the buyback will produce other alternatives, but I can't be optimistic. I would really rather not go CPO / used, but it may come to that.

 

[30_Yr_Dsl_Veteran]

In our case, had the difference between the cash-to-keep and the buyout amounts been not nearly so HUGE ($7,600), we would have definitely KEPT our 2009 Jetta TDI w/123,000 miles.

I suspect the HUGE differences were the reason that most all gave up their beloved TDIs.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

The TDI wagon was actually perfect for me.

What I really want? a V90 wagon. But I cant afford a 50-60K car. I can't drive what I really want, because I commute 27 miles one way per day. This is a choice, because I refuse to live with the mouth breathing criminally inclined masses in the metro area where I work. I'n not stupid enough to believe I can co-exist peacefully with those people. I don't tolerate others' BS well.

I feel you on that. I've got a similar commute. For what myself and the GF are paying for a 3BR place with a nice fenced backyard (we have a big dog)... we'd be lucky to get into a 1 BR place in a so-so building in the $hitty.

 

[Borsig]

I feel you on that. I've got a similar commute. For what myself and the GF are paying for a 3BR place with a nice fenced backyard (we have a big dog)... we'd be lucky to get into a 1 BR place in a so-so building in the $hitty.

I moved to newport news for work in 2010. It took me literally 4 months to get into a confrontation with someone in a walmart checkout line, that nearly turned violent. (I'm not intimidated by thuggery) That same week, my boss' house was broken into, and he woke up to intruders at 2 AM. Had it been my home, they would not have walked out. At that point, I decided it was time to move. We now live in Gloucester.

If my commute was 5-10 miles, Make no mistake I'd have a BMW, or Allroad, or something of the sort.

What I may end up doing is getting a commuter, and a second car. Maybe a 2013-14 civic. Put the rest of the cash into a down payment on something else. Who knows.

The problem is - I dont want to be trapped in a ****box commuter for 1.5 hours a day.

 

[shovelhd]

Borsig, why not split the difference. I went from a 2014 JSW TDI to a 2009 MkV GTI with 81k for $9k. No payments and a bunch of cash in the bank. The MkV is still a great platform.

 

[Borsig]

Not even remotely enough room.

if anything I need larger, not smaller for a main vehicle.

 

[ezshift5]

Borsig, your words - the Wal-Mart incident, the break-in (with thug survival overtones) - would seem to conform with this sailor's mindset.

I'm looking at the 6M/V-tex Alltrack with increasing interest. The 5M GSW has better MPG potential (but cloth seats?)............

Also 2017 just may see a PPK to Ber 84 upgrade...........

all the best from our Naval Reserve,

ez

 

[seth1065]

VW really made no effect to get me in another VW, I test drove a GTI, a GSW and a Passat SE, none of them really did it for me, the GTI was a little to small and dark, the GSW was w no DSG and the passat SE was just blah, but if VW was gonna give me a great deal I would have had to consider it, if I could have had a new car w a warranty for a couple of grand over my buyback would have to consider it, but the dealers ( 4 in total) really never gave me a deal I needed to consider so I bought a used saab.

 

[halbert]

We bought a '17 GSW, physically almost identical to the JSW, on one long road trip got right at 36 mpg highway, so not bad. They've done some improvements (quieter, smooth ride) and some cosmetic things that are more user friendly like auto headlights. The JSW was purchased because at the time wife was driving 600 miles a week....we've since moved and that no longer applies. I agree with the assessment that most "wagons" are crossover suv's these days. If I could have put my hands on a pre-2010 subaru outback...before they turned it into a crossover....

 

[Borsig]

36 calculated, or mfi?

 

[halbert]

36 calculated, or mfi?

Calculated over 950 miles, cold weather, cruise set at 72, eastern mountains (I-81 mostly from PA into VA). Plenty of torque for the on ramps and passing trucks in the steep parts. Handles very similar to the JSW. Android auto/google map is a huge step up from the old nav system.

 

[Borsig]

not bad. My fuelly is here for everyone to see. I usually get up to 44 on trips I think.

Id love to see 30-32 daily. Wish I could rent or borrow one for a week's commute.....

 

[newbeetleman]

I drive 1.5 hours ONE WAY to go to work.. I replaced my TDI with a 2010 passat. So far, the mpg is better than I expected for a gasser.

 

[S2000_guy]

VW's low retention rate for TDI owners at this time is no surprise. Think about it: every single TDI owner who was dissatisfied with their vehicle for any reason (poor reliability, reduced commute distance, increased family size, fear of expensive repairs, whatever) signed up for the buyback immediately. The current pool of buyback owners is skewed towards the dissatisfied. Then add the dissatisfaction with the bungled buyback registration/approval process.

Many owners who are still satisfied with their TDIs will be selling them back later in the program. I suspect more of us will consider VW: I'm satisfied with my current car, and if I could get a nicely-equipped 6MT GSW in 2018, I'd be all over it. I also expect that VW will have the buyback program running smoothly by 2018, so I doubt they'll be alienating customers like me later in the program.

 

[Squalo]

If the dealer wants me to get a VW, whatever great deal they are offering, they must lower it a further $1000 to account for the sales tax credit "screw you" I am getting. Otherwise, I'd rather get reemed on the sales rack credit loss from a non-VW dealer.

How are you getting screwed on a sales tax credit? Seems to me we bought a car awhile back, and now we sell it --at very attractive price--after driving it for several years. Where is the "screw you"?

 

[MBellantone]

I'm on hold returning my 2014 6sp manual with 43K miles. All my paperwork is in and my approved offer was accepted by me and my notarized paperwork was also accepted. I will set my buyback appointment when I hear word from my dealer about my Silk Blue Alltrack SE 6sp Manual that is on order. I hope will be coming soon.

I love my car. I simply love it. It's perfect for me and beside one incident of fuel freezing, (my fault, I waited too long to add my OptiLube), the car has treated me respectfully. I also take care of it.

Before I got my JSW, I sold an otherwise perfect 2012 AWD Acura TL with AWD and 6sp manual. Pretty much the epitome of a perfect car... on paper. I've always been a VW guy and I missed the austere simplicity of my VW cockpit that was my 2006 6sp V6 Passat wagon which I regretted ever selling because of oil consumption. I actually went back to the person I sold it to see if they'd sell it back. (they wouldn't).

Did I say that I love my JSW? I don't want to seem corny but I look forward to driving it in the morning and at the end of the day. Yes, I'm too car-centric but I'm too old to change my outlook and I really don't want to. Am I happy with what VW did? Well, perhaps yes, but only for selfish reasons. Do I hate VW for what they did? Absolutely not; I happen to think it was a pretty ingenious thing that they did but they got caught. Did I take it personally? no. They were simply trying to sell cars in a world with overbearing regulation, relatively speaking. Please no flaming on this one; I know the drill (I read). You can see the vehemence of CARB and the EPA feeding on the chum that is now VW with their required atonement.

Do I like the way VW handles the trim levels and options on their cars? No. Do I like their dealer franchises? No. I haven't been to a dealer yet who can provide me with a salesperson who knows more about their own product than I do.

I just love their cars and how they drive.

Give me another please!

 

[coolbreeze]

I'm on hold returning my 2014 6sp manual with 43K miles. All my paperwork is in and my approved offer was accepted by me and my notarized paperwork was also accepted. I will set my buyback appointment when I hear word from my dealer about my Silk Blue Alltrack SE 6sp Manual that is on order. I hope will be coming soon.
I love my car. I simply love it. It's perfect for me and beside one incident of fuel freezing, (my fault, I waited too long to add my OptiLube), the car has treated me respectfully. I also take care of it.
Before I got my JSW, I sold an otherwise perfect 2012 AWD Acura TL with AWD and 6sp manual. Pretty much the epitome of a perfect car... on paper. I've always been a VW guy and I missed the austere simplicity of my VW cockpit that was my 2006 6sp V6 Passat wagon which I regretted ever selling because of oil consumption. I actually went back to the person I sold it to see if they'd sell it back. (they wouldn't).
Did I say that I love my JSW? I don't want to seem corny but I look forward to driving it in the morning and at the end of the day. Yes, I'm too car-centric but I'm too old to change my outlook and I really don't want to. Am I happy with what VW did? Well, perhaps yes, but only for selfish reasons. Do I hate VW for what they did? Absolutely not; I happen to think it was a pretty ingenious thing that they did but they got caught. Did I take it personally? no. They were simply trying to sell cars in a world with overbearing regulation, relatively speaking. Please no flaming on this one; I know the drill (I read). You can see the vehemence of CARB and the EPA feeding on the chum that is now VW with their required atonement.
Do I like the way VW handles the trim levels and options on their cars? No. Do I like their dealer franchises? No. I haven't been to a dealer yet who can provide me with a salesperson who knows more about their own product than I do.
I just love their cars and how they drive.
Give me another please!

Said perfectly. Totally agree
I love you!
;

 

[goodysgotacuda]

I think 15% will be high by the time this is over. I suspect owners are dropping the idea of another VW/Audi by the day as this process continues to drag out and the TDI owners are drug to the mud on their timelines.

I started out really pushing for a GTI/R to replace my Golf TDI and a Tiguan for my Wife to replace our Jetta TDI. My Wife and I are going from a VW/VW to BMW/BMW after all of this. I have zero interest in buying another VW product.

 

[Tenebrae]

I think 15% will be high by the time this is over. I suspect owners are dropping the idea of another VW/Audi by the day as this process continues to drag out and the TDI owners are drug to the mud on their timelines.

I started out really pushing for a GTI/R to replace my Golf TDI and a Tiguan for my Wife to replace our Jetta TDI. My Wife and I are going from a VW/VW to BMW/BMW after all of this. I have zero interest in buying another VW product.

I was about set to buy a VW GTI Golf Autobahn...
As this claim has dragged on and on with no movement, and the available Autobahns have disappeared or never materialized fully in the first place (and the prices of the ones I've seen are crazy high), my interest has dropped almost to nil. Every day erodes further my desire to deal with VW ever again...and I LOVE my Jetta. It's been so good to me. VW? Notsomuch.

-T.