dealer checking fuel quality

[aja8888]

DO NOT LET THEM SAMPLE YOUR FUEL!

A sample from your tank is meaningless to correlate it to U.S. fuel quality.

They have no business sampling your fuel unless YOU suspect a problem with your car. THEN you should take a sample at the same time and use a prepared sample jar (free from a lab) and then keep a "chain of custody" record of your sample to the lab. Ask the lab to preserve your sample and only have it tested for what VW says they are testing their sample from your car for.

Like said above, put a locking fuel cap on before you go to the dealer and do not let them have the key.

Remember, with VW, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

 

[dweisel]

I'm putting my Stant locking fuel cap on when I bring it in next month for my 10k mile service.

Locking fuel caps are only good for keeping vandals and theives from having access to your fuel,not mechanics. Fuel samples could be taken by various means from your car. One of the simplest ways would be to unhook the supply fuel line at the fuel sending unit. Attach a hose to the supply fitting on the sending unit and put power to the sending unit. Your tank could be almost completely drained. So, locking fuel cap.................forget it.

 

[40X40]

Deep.

Breath.

Repeat.

Bill

 

[Fordcougar]

Fuel Sampling at the dealership does nothing, if VW was truly concerned with Fuel Quality they would take it from Stations.

They have no idea where your fuel came from, it would be an unreliable "study"
if they have 3 or 300,000 samples, and no idea where they came from. It doesn't make for any reliable scientific data. Random sampling doesn't help either.

 

[TDiSkater]

Locking fuel caps are only good for keeping vandals and theives from having access to your fuel,not mechanics. Fuel samples could be taken by various means from your car. One of the simplest ways would be to unhook the supply fuel line at the fuel sending unit. Attach a hose to the supply fitting on the sending unit and put power to the sending unit. Your tank could be almost completely drained. So, locking fuel cap.................forget it.

Yah, after I posted I said that to myself. Let's just hope they act honestly and ask permission

Certainly a distraction from only worrying about their using the right oil or correctly priming the pump, etc. VW does keep life interesting!

 

[wutbürger]

^ +1
VW can do its own diesel sampling on its own time, own dime.

QFT. Let them go out on their own time and dime to collect data

 

[dweisel]

QFT. Let them go out on their own time and dime to collect data

They already had all Regional Reps collect fuel samples from service stations all around the country. Not sure what they are up to with sampling individual cars. Its all leads up to "bad fuel" They sure are not trying to prove there is nothing wrong with the fuel.

 

[aja8888]

Locking fuel caps are only good for keeping vandals and theives from having access to your fuel,not mechanics. Fuel samples could be taken by various means from your car. One of the simplest ways would be to unhook the supply fuel line at the fuel sending unit. Attach a hose to the supply fitting on the sending unit and put power to the sending unit. Your tank could be almost completely drained. So, locking fuel cap.................forget it.

I'm sure the dealer could get fuel from any car that they have in for service without the owner knowing. Providing a locked fuel cap is testimony as to your diligence in maintaining a secure fuel system and somewhat tamper proof. If a dealer stoops so low as to take fuel from a vehicle for purposes of analysis without the owner's agreement, then they are really bad guys. On a positive note, they will have no way to prove you gave them permission or where the actual fuel was taken from (without a doubt).

Given these VW time bombs (09 - 11 TDIs) and the relentless negative goodwill of the dealers and VW, I would never let them sample my fuel without proper protocol being implemented (and I don't mean Styrofoam cups or empty pop bottles).

 

[c17chief]

They already had all Regional Reps collect fuel samples from service stations all around the country. Not sure what they are up to with sampling individual cars. Its all leads up to "bad fuel" They sure are not trying to prove there is nothing wrong with the fuel.

It's a snapshot of the typical in tank environment. Fuel quality at the pump is one thing, but the typical environment inside the car's fuel tank could be quite another. Kind of pointless on cars this new since it's not the same as a crusty old car that has a lot of time on it. Anyhow, if you want to know what exactly is being fed through the engine, then right from the fuel tank is where you want your samples. Fuel from the station isnt very representative of the environment of the car's tank after multiple fills, probably from various stations, etc.

 

[740GLE]

I'd agree that taking a sample from the tank would know 100% whats going through the system. I'm just guessing as to why they are doing this.

I remember one of the ideas of this fuel system might be changing the fuel it self. Thinking about the loop of the system, the fuel is seeing some pretty high pressures in the rail, at who knows what temps, then fed back to the filter then fed back to the tank. It might be the design of the system that's causing the fule to become out of spec.

So if Fuel brand X fuel tests good at the filling station, how does it stand up going through this cycle, and how does Fuel brand Y using a different additive package compare? They only way you're going to know 100% is by taking sample.

Either way if they'd be taking a sample from my tank, I'd take a $25-$50 giftcard so I can fill up at the station I want to fill up. B5 or nothing!

 

[Tinfish]

I don't think they are doing this to sample US diesel quality. My guess is that they suspect (probably correctly) that a significant percentage of TDI owners occasionally put in a few gallons of gasoline by mistake and are checking for that; if true, that might take them off the hook for hpfp issues.

 

[TwoTone]

I could be completely off base, but sounds like the investigation isn't going well and this sounds like a desperate attempt to get out of a possible recall.

 

[DanG144]

The fuel gets heated while in the car to much higher temperatures than in storage. This will cause changes in the fuel.

 

[40X40]

It's a snapshot of the typical in tank environment. Fuel quality at the pump is one thing, but the typical environment inside the car's fuel tank could be quite another. Kind of pointless on cars this new since it's not the same as a crusty old car that has a lot of time on it. Anyhow, if you want to know what exactly is being fed through the engine, then right from the fuel tank is where you want your samples. Fuel from the station isnt very representative of the environment of the car's tank after multiple fills, probably from various stations, etc.

The fuel gets heated while in the car to much higher temperatures than in storage. This will cause changes in the fuel.

This.

Bill

 

[Ski in NC]

It would go a long way if they explained what the sample was for and to what use the resulting information would be put.

If they made it clear that the samples were for engineering use and would in no way be used to fight warranty, then why not. We want this issue sorted as much as they do.

But then we come back to that "trust" thingy. After a bunch of owners got jammed by vw during hpfp failures, it is hard to trust what a dealer says...

 

[Jayhawks]

You have nothing to gain and something to lose from the findings. I would tell this to the service manager and refuse.

 

[biohzd]

Well, just a thought, what if one could measure trace metal contamination in fuel as a gauge for how high the concentration gets before the HPFP blows?? Could they find a signature if all samples were collected from a quarter tank of fuel? Might be of benefit?

 

[epc]

I will also add that this sampling from the fuel tanks will reveal what other kinds of stuff that some owners put besides the pump diesel: off road diesel, waste vegetable oil, biodiesel of all varieties and %, all kinds of additives, etc.

So yeah, this survey could really turn up some interesting results.

 

[CedarPark68]

I would hope that someone who has already filed a complaint to be asked for a fuel sample.

IF this happens, I would wish for that person to update their case and issue a complaint that VW is now picking on you for a fuel sample.

This will go over like a TON of bricks as it could be considered a bully tactic.

Thinking about this more, it would be interesting if everyone asked lets the NHTS know of the request from VW.

 

[rte2MA]

Has this happened to anyone other than the OP?

 

[jasedavid1]

Has this happened to anyone other than the OP?

I'm assuming as others bring their car in for service they will be asked for the fuel sample. I'm sure I won't be the only one, once back at the dealer i will ask more questions to find out what VW is trying to achieve with this. I don't want to give a sample if it may come back to burn me, on the other hand I would give a sample if it were to help solve the problem.

 

[timwagon]

I would ask the dealer two questions:

Why do you want to sample my fuel?

What are the potential consequences to the warranty coverage on my vehicle based on the fuel sample test results?

Get both answers in writing, then make your decision.

 

[cardinarky]

Wait a minute. Bosch and the materials suppliers do NOT HAVE MATERIALS SCIENCE OR METALLURGICAL ENGINEERS ON THEIR STAFFS? If these guys and the steel suppliers engineers and aluminum supplier engineers can't tell what is causing the failure, they should all be fired.
This is absolute bull%&*#.
This is what failure analysis technical departments are created for. I have heard enough. I'm getting off this train at the next stop.

 

[DanG144]

Of course they have metalurgical expertise on their staff and certainly as contract expertise as well.

The way I see it, the end user - customer- should work WITH the supplier - VW and/or Bosch- in order to reach the solution in the minimum time. The platforms in the field are excellent sources of information. Yes, giving information up can be risky. But not cooperating can be costly as well - to all of us.

My fuel filter is non standard, I add a bit of bioD to each tankfull. I chose to do this from NEW. I still don't have 12,000 miles on an 18 month old car. I am responsible for my choices, and willing to live up to the negative as well as the possible positive impacts of those choices.

There are some indications that VW is taking an active corporate interest in this issue. We should encourage them. Several people have posted that if a dealer tries to get an HPFP the system flags them to contact management. In these last couple of cases, VW has stepped up to the plate and replaced the systems.

While I am not a Polyanna, I do not think that VW is my enemy. I do think that they want me to be satisfied customer. Nothing else makes any sense at all.

I think they are doing the best that they can, in a bumbling bureaucratic manner typical of large businesses.

A similar effort by other fuel system component and manufacturers a few years ago found some fairly wide spread issues with fuel supplies - and helped get them recognized.

 

[3rs]

I am so happy they bought my 2011 JSW back. Issues with the HPFP scare me.

 

[Westro]

And.... Thank you for being a Beta tester....

 

[aja8888]

And.... Thank you for being a Beta tester....

Seems like all VW TDI owners since 2004 have been beta testers...

 

[cardinarky]

If VWA wants fuel samples, they can go to each and every retail diesel outlet they so choose and buy some material straight from the pump. Taking samples from the tanks of owners who happen to drive into their establishment for warranty service is not right. In fact carrying it to its ultimate conclusion, it is against the 4th amendment found in the US Bill of Rights.

 

[epc]

If VWA wants fuel samples, they can go to each and every retail diesel outlet they so choose and buy some material straight from the pump. Taking samples from the tanks of owners who happen to drive into their establishment for warranty service is not right. In fact carrying it to its ultimate conclusion, it is against the 4th amendment found in the US Bill of Rights.

Again, pump diesel is not necessarily equal to the fuel going into the hpfp. Customers can put off road diesel, wvo, all kinds of additives in all kinds of concentrations, biodiesel of all kinds in all kinds of concentration and yes, gasoline into the tank.

If you want VW / Bosch to do good failure analysis, then you will want them to have this kind of information. Or you can lawyer up and then nothing will ever happen.

I can't believe ppl will throw out the 4th amendment. Only in America.

 

[RomanL]

I can't believe ppl will throw out the 4th amendment. Only in America.

thats because only in America do we have 4th amendment