Dang &!#@% auto transmission

[Kayakkermit]

So my car goes in Saturday to Pioneer Transmission in Waterloo to have it's tranny at least partially rebuilt.
It is an '02 Jetta with 191k kms.
It went funny on me once back in the summer with the torque converter not locking up, threw a "Torque Converter Lockup Malfunction - intermittent" code.
I took it in and had the Kerma Line pressure mod done, new fluid put in, and new filter less then 10k kms ago once it happened, and it was ok for a bit, but now the TC will only lock up if you drive it verrrrry carefully.
The dealer gave me a quote of around $ 5k.
Pioneer will do a rebuild for $3 k, and if it does not need a full rebuild, it will be less.
The dealer swears up and down that they "almost never" replace a slushbox, but now this one has to be rebuilt and my '01 already had a rebuilt in it when I got it.
I looked into replacing with a stick, just don't have the even more dough to throw at it to do that. Would have been my first preferance to be honest.
I can't believe there is anything that special with these trannies that they should cost that much. The guy at Pioneer says he is seeing more and more of these come in now too that there are more of them on the road - he rates them as "average" and does not believe that these trannies will stand up well compared to the life of the engines.
What kind of life are other people experiencing with their slushboxes?

 

[tango_28]

It seems like a lot 02 slush boxes are a failing.

 

[SubseaFB]

96K on my 02 NB and still running strong. Granted, 90% of my driving is on the highway so I do very little stop and go. Ive heard from both sides on the AT. Bout half say the suck and the other half says if you have more than 80K then you have a good AT. Obviously you are an exception to that. I do however plan on getting the 5 spd when I trade the NB in on a Jetta. The AT's are made in Japan and even VW wont rebuild them. Does seem like highway robbery to have to pay so much to have one rebuilt though. Had a 700r4 rebuilt for $850. Now thats more like it.

 

[tango_28]

It depends on which automatic you have, mine is 01m and is made in Germany. The newer ones are made by JATCO which are made in Japan.

 

[chirorob]

My 01 auto just died last week. I'll be picking up all the manual conversion stuff Sunday - $1400 for everything.
New G60/VR6 clutch kit and flywheel - $365 shipped.

If you can do the work yourself then $1765 < $3000.

Some of the other guys who have done the conversion have paid less, so if you have the time to scrounge you might be able to get it done for much less - I just had to snag whatever was available for my wife's daily driver.

Now if you are going to pay a shop to do the work, then I have no idea how much they would charge, but at least you wouldn't have to worry about the transmission kicking in another 80-100k.

Edit: Oh yea, it is a 01M, and I JUST dropped the pan and put in Amsoil full synthetic with a new filter and about 20 clicks of the Kerma line mod - the pan had about 1/4" worth of metal dust in it as well as a couple metal chunks... just from daily highway driving, and my wife is a SLOW driver so no hotrodding.

 

[tango_28]

How many miles were on your car when the tranny blew?

 

[chirorob]

112k miles, no warning at all. I knew by the crap in the pan it had some serious wear in there, but was hoping the new synthetic plus a tiny bit more line pressure would make up for the wear and allow it to last a bit longer.

I just pulled out into traffic coming home from the video store and it didn't want to GO, just barely made it without getting creamed from the oncoming traffic. Then it decided to pull a bit and then acted like it downshifted / upshifted a few different ways. I had to put on the hazards and barely limped the 4 blocks home. Once home I let the car cool down completely and then cranked it and thought I would go around the block to see if it was a heat issue... the car refused to go anywhere when shifted in reverse, and hasn't moved since.

 

[ymz]

My sympathies, Giles !!!

I've been thinking about picking up a used automatic TDI for my in-laws and have been scared 5#!+13$$ about this happening...

Change the "thinking" to "procrastinating" in the sentence above...

This is one instance where I may wish to get an extended warranty if I go that route... possibly we'll get them a new cheapo Korean/Japanese car for little more than a used TDI...

Yuri.

PS: if you ever listen to those "Auto-Talk" shows on cable, many of the modern transmissions cost a fortune to overhaul, so it's not only a VW problem...

 

[Jettawolfs98]

tranny

Mine is a 01M and went bad at 62k miles, can you believe it .

I had the dealer done it at 5.5k dlls, man I'm still paying for the loan.

Right now I'm replacing the filter and fluid avery 20-30k miles.

With 126k miles one it right now.

But I'm hoping to keep it going until 200k miles and save more money just in case.

 

[tango_28]

I'm on the 20-30k fluid change plan now too!! No such thing as lifetime automatic transmission fluid.

 

[Kayakkermit]

My 01 auto just died last week. I'll be picking up all the manual conversion stuff Sunday - $1400 for everything.
New G60/VR6 clutch kit and flywheel - $365 shipped.

If you can do the work yourself then $1765 < $3000.

Some of the other guys who have done the conversion have paid less, so if you have the time to scrounge you might be able to get it done for much less - I just had to snag whatever was available for my wife's daily driver.

Now if you are going to pay a shop to do the work, then I have no idea how much they would charge, but at least you wouldn't have to worry about the transmission kicking in another 80-100k.
quote]
Unfortunately both of our cars are our daily drivers, and my wife and I work out of town shifts just different enough from each other to make car pooling impossible - not many sitters out there willing to take on children for 12 hours or more a day. which would be the case if we tried.

I also did look into buying the parts to put in a stck, but by the time I bought everything even out of a wrecker except a new clutch I was into $2300 or so, and that was just the parts, still needing to be put in. Add to that either labour or the time to do it, and one of us is out of a job.

For a vehicle that costs as much as they do (up here in Canada anyway), having to spend $5k every 100k miles is rediculous - as my wife said. we could buy another semi-decent used vehicle for that!
She is not too pleased with VW right now, and I have to admit, neither am I.
Yes, these cars have "character", and many of the things we can do ourselves, but for again a car that costs this much , no one should have to.

 

[looking4tdi]

01 NB 107k miles

My 01 NB auto gave me fits when I first bought the car @ 78,000 miles. It took me a few months, but the problem was as simple as can be. I cleaned the ground for the transmission module and it has worked with no issues since then.

Mine keep throwing a speed sensor error. I wouldn't shift until it hit 3,000 rpms.

I do plan on replacing the fluid again soon (replaced @ 80,000 miles)

 

[Nocky]

What should I do for preventive maintenance? My 2000 has 185,000 miles on it and when it’s really cold it takes a second or two to go in reverse. Every thing else seems fine and I’m getting 50 mpg on the hwy.

 

[scooperhsd]

Hate the 4speed Auto in my NB, although it's been a blessing the last couple weeks with a sprained left ankle.

Complaints - I keep getting the code about TCC lockup failure - after it trips the 2nd one, it doesn't lockup until I clear the code. Transmission "hunts" between 3rd / 4th gear in rolling terrain at around 40-50 MPH - usually solved by manually sticking it in 3rd. MPG hit - I'm usually around 38.

Edit - one other complaint - The "fuzzy logic" doesn't work too well with my driving style, "racing" up to speed, then steady state cruising. The hunting issue as well, although it is beginning to "get it" with the manual kickdowns.

Pluses - car warms up quickly - almost like a gasser small car. If I lived where it got REALLY cold for a longer period of time - this might be THE transmission to have.

transmission replacements - I've been quoted $3000 for a used one from my usual mechanic, and the dealer wanted $5000 for a new one. Since the lockup problem isn't a "disabling" problem (engine just runs faster for a given road speed), I'm still on the fence about it. I've thought about having the Kerma mod done, see if that helps the hunting.

 

[scooperhsd]

What should I do for preventive maintenance? My 2000 has 185,000 miles on it and when it’s really cold it takes a second or two to go in reverse. Every thing else seems fine and I’m getting 50 mpg on the hwy.

Your car sounds fine to me. Have the fluid / filter changed next service (the dealer will tell this isn't necessary - don't listen to them). Don't abuse the tranny (let it "clunk" into gear before applying power).

 

[Kayakkermit]

Hate the 4speed Auto in my NB, although it's been a blessing the last couple weeks with a sprained left ankle.

Complaints - I keep getting the code about TCC lockup failure - after it trips the 2nd one, it doesn't lockup until I clear the code. Transmission "hunts" between 3rd / 4th gear in rolling terrain at around 40-50 MPH - usually solved by manually sticking it in 3rd. MPG hit - I'm usually around 38.

Edit - one other complaint - The "fuzzy logic" doesn't work too well with my driving style, "racing" up to speed, then steady state cruising. The hunting issue as well, although it is beginning to "get it" with the manual kickdowns.

Pluses - car warms up quickly - almost like a gasser small car. If I lived where it got REALLY cold for a longer period of time - this might be THE transmission to have.

transmission replacements - I've been quoted $3000 for a used one from my usual mechanic, and the dealer wanted $5000 for a new one. Since the lockup problem isn't a "disabling" problem (engine just runs faster for a given road speed), I'm still on the fence about it. I've thought about having the Kerma mod done, see if that helps the hunting.

Yours sounds exactly like mine when it started. I did the Kerma mod, but it didn't help long term. Car shifted nice and crisp for about a month, then that went too, and it progressively got worse, relatively quickly.
A rebuild will cost you about the same as a used, and I personally think a rebulid is better.

 

[scooperhsd]

Mine has been doing this for the better part of a year (30K miles or so ?) now, not getting any worse, not getting any better. That's why I'm still on the fence about fixing it.

 

[tango_28]

Giles,

Good luck and keep us updated on your car.

 

[Kayakkermit]

OK, so here's the lowdown:
they replaced the torque converter, tcc solenoid, and put in an updated oversized Sonnax TCC apply Valve assembly and Boost valve assembly, new fluid, seals and bolts yada yada ( I gave them a list of the stretch bolts to replace, they were going to re-use the old ones).
All this for the low low price of $ 2400.16, TYVM.
Guess I should have planted that money tree after all.

Verdict:
It still seems to shift funny, not really happy with the delay in lock-up or shift points, but attributing all this right now to the soft-coding until the tranny relearns.
I will give it a week to do that, at which point I will be back in touch with them if I don't think it's right.
I picked the car up Friday, so it looks like if it does have to be looked at again, it would be between Christmas and New Years.

 

[scooperhsd]

GIles - do the "resetting trick" - accelerator pedal to the floor, turn on ignition (but don't start), wait 15-30 seconds, turn off ignition, release pedal. On your next startup, the car will be back to "stock" shifting pattern, and can start learning from there.

 

[Kayakkermit]

GIles - do the "resetting trick" - accelerator pedal to the floor, turn on ignition (but don't start), wait 15-30 seconds, turn off ignition, release pedal. On your next startup, the car will be back to "stock" shifting pattern, and can start learning from there.

Will give that a try and keep you updated, thanks!

 

[scooperhsd]

Any further word ?

 

[Kayakkermit]

Did the reset, made quite a difference, but still think it rev's high under throttle before it upshifts. With the holidays it hasn't been driven that much, hence nothing concrete to report here yet.

 

[Kayakkermit]

After doing the reset, only got 39.67 imp mpg, down about 10 imp mpg from the summer, and about 6 imp mpg from what I should be getting with this weather. I'm positive the TC is not locking up as quick as it should, nor is it shifting as quick as it should. I've called them, and am dropping the car back off tomorrow, but I bet they claim everything is as it should be, even though hard numbers prove otherwise.
I don't know what to do if it comes to a fight, any suggestions?

 

[MOGolf]

GIles - do the "resetting trick" - accelerator pedal to the floor, turn on ignition (but don't start), wait 15-30 seconds, turn off ignition, release pedal. On your next startup, the car will be back to "stock" shifting pattern, and can start learning from there.

This is not right.

Turn the key to on.
Then push pedal to the floor.
Wait 5 seconds.
Release pedal.
Turn off key.

This procedure resets fuzzy logic and tells TCM (and ECM) the range of the pedal. If monitoring with VAG-COM you can see the 'sport mode' get reset to 99+%.

Also, after doing major tranny work as was done, you should go to adaptation channel 00, read, save, confirm (vag-com). Then do the pedal reset.

 

[scooperhsd]

kayakkermit - any further word on your car / transmission issues ?

 

[Kayakkermit]

So far it's doing alright, still feels slightly funny though, but when I compare it against our other Jetta, seems to be about right. Fuel economy still seems low, but again, with it being winter that is expected, and again, the '01 is getting not much different so I assume it's actually working properly.
Sorry to hear you are looking at the same thing, my VW garage swears up and down these trannies "almost never go". Funny, that wasn't what the tranny rebuild shop said.

 

[Kayakkermit]

Yep, knew it..... on the way home today, tranny won't lock up again, engine light came on, so we drove it back to the tranny place and left it in their driveway at 3:00 pm.... they were of course not open, because what transmission place would work on a Saturday....
I will call them Monday to find out *** is wrong now, but if they think I'm going to pay again to have the thing fixed they have another thought coming.
I'm sure it will "be out of warranty" since their warranty is only good for 20,000 kms.... the torque converter itself is warrantied for a full year, but not the labour.
I will maintain that I have stated since getting the vehicle back it did not feel right, and indeed they have it on record that it threw a code within the first 10 days.
I will keep everyone posted as to the progress.
The name of the place is Pioneer Transmission on Fairview Road in Kitchener, if they do the right thing and fix it right and free I will recommend it to everyone here, if they choose to try to screw me then everyone will know exactly whom to avoid.