Damaged Firad +160% nozzle

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Hi folks, I have a set of Firad 1043S nozzles fitted to pd130 injectors off AVF engine (AR ending), they never ran, I believe the injector lash wasn't reset and one tip is cracked- the pin went trough the nozzle... Can injector bottoming out damage nozzle like that and can the internals of the injectors be salvageable ? I bought new set of nozzles as I couldn't find them in singles in Romania. Now I could get the new injectors fitted to ARL/ASZ injectors but would it make much difference ? They will fuel much more than the engine can burn cleanly, isn't it ? I would rather have to fix one nozzle instead of having to pay to fix nozzles to 4 injectors...
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
I don't think the lash connects in any way to the pintle. I suspect if cranked over with negative lash something else might get damaged. If it is in the injector, I have no idea exactly what that is...but I suspect it is possible.
cheers,
Douglas
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Thanks guys, the car didn't start according to the owner and certainly the tips doesn't look that they've worked as they not blue from heat ! However the nozzle is cracked up in 2 pieces with the pin coming trough the tip and the lash cap cracked in 2 ! It's hard to get spare nozzles at reasonable price where I am at and not many will touch pd injectors...well, I am waiting for the replacement nozzles then I will send them away to be checked by a competent diesel shop...never seen anything like that !
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
You can break an injector rocker but you won't damage a nozzle with too little lash. Most nozzle damage happens when the head is rested on a flat surface with the injectors in it.

I replaced a nozzle on a PD injector that was beat up by a dropped valve. I lapped the internals and set it up like any other nozzle. I'm currently running it with no issues.
Oh yes indeed. That is the fastest way to take a set of four injectors and make it a set of 3( if you're lucky with valve position ).
Douglas
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Had one nozzle installed but unfortunately another injector has broken pins inside...need to source another injector to rob a few internal bits and repair the broken one...so far work is plenty and I was gathering parts for last week. So far I ordered a 2.0sdi camshaft, glyco bearings and Ina dlc coated hydro lifters... Hope to send the broken injector to get fixed ASAP so I can drive the car for further tuning !
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Update, after 3 sets of injector nozzles, 2 sets of injectors and loads of sending to/from diesel shop to make a decent set of injectors I still haven’t got a decent running motor !
After I found the 1st set of firad 160 nozzles it’s not good I bought another set of firad +50% hoping they will work decent…I got them fitted to the engine and still no decent idle or running: one is over the spec. Had it repaired twice but still not working properly. In the end I bought another set of 160% and sent another set of cores to have them installed. Shop calls me and say they are not good the cores so sent the other 3 in hope out of 7 injectors (with firad nozzles) to make a decent running one…got them back and proceed to fit them and found threads stripped on injector nr2 ! Hoped by fixing the threads I might have fixed it but still no running well on that cyl !
Cyl pressures are up to 30 bar across all cylinders…maybe I will get courageous and fit the new, balanced set of injectors and hopefully they work well !
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Unfortunately they have been fitted by people that call themselves specialists! As you probably know the pd nozzles are not easy to swap diy style as they get damaged internally (some pins break) and balancing and setting them up require also a very expensive Bosch test stand ! I bought my 1st set used with one broken nozzle, I thought I will repair them easily, however I couldn’t find a single nozzle for sale in my neck of woods. I then bought a 2nd set of nozzles which I had them fitted to a spare set of injectors, I have to fit them to the car when it gets a bit warmer- currently below freezing in my garage !
To be honest it’s all a learning curve with modding these engines…in hindsight I wish I spent a bit more money 1st than waste money 3 times in order to have a decent product ! I still hold hope !
 

tdi_my live

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Germany
TDI
Skoda Fabia
What do you mean they're not going well?
Do you have idle logs from blocks 13 and 23?
What controller number or file is being used and what nozzles and tips are being used?
Euro3 jets in a Euro4 data set and vice versa run like a sack of mussels. Terrible. Then you have to adjust something in the file.
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
They are genuine firad 1043s nozzles, I have pictures of the nozzles, but I have to upload them on a host site !
They idle well but values are all over the place and smoke badly (ok I was expecting that) and feel like they are not balanced properly! I had another set of AWX injectors (AR) fitted with firad +50% and they were the same. However I somehow stripped a thread on injector nr2 while removing the injectors but I have repaired it since then ! The BIP maps seem ok to me and the smooth running on idle Hoover’s at 2.99 on 2 injectors… as it warms up they get better but not much ! Thanks for taking time to answer !
 

arazvan2002

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Romania
TDI
Audi A4 B6 1.9TDI AVF quattro
I tried to tweak it's file but nothing worked. The corrections are very high, around 2.99, bip values very high, no matther what bip values I used. It should have worked with bip from the body donor engine. I've seen that in another case. I think the install wasn't done correctly.
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Speaking with a friend who used to play with his pd over a decade ago and had an injector setting bench/tester he reckons the injector tips might not be installed properly, they outfit that fitted the nozzles lapped the shims to get even flow on idle but the solenoid calibration might not be up to scratch since I had 2 sets that behaved in a similar way !
I took compression readings and it’s sitting at 30 bar even across all cylinders !!
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Probably will revert back to AL injectors for a while- need to pass MoT emissions and may play with it trough the summer ! I kinda hate pd engines, they are good at making power but some things are just not easy to setup at all- injectors being 1 of them where you rely on others to do a good job !
 
Top