D2 and Bio Fuel Blending discussion

[ATG]

I would like to start a discussion about blending D2 and Biodiesel together for the added benefit of lubricity.

Starting this thread is a direct result of Volkswagen of America's failure to specify the use of fuel additives in their Common Rail engines. They remain silent on the aspect for unknown reasons, several of which are assumptions by the TDI community. It seems as though the only alternative that does not void the warranty (at least to what I read), is using a bio fuel.

In that respect, B5 is accepted as alternative fuel in these Common Rail engines. Volkswagen allows the use of this grade of bio fuel outside of Illinois, USA. Illinois is allowed to use up to B20 with a caveat, which is public knowledge and easily searchable. Bio fuels, by their produced nature act as a "detergent," and also have an added benefit of enhanced lubricity.

I would like to poll TDI community members and to discuss the possibility of blending D2 with bio fuel. Some topics I would like to cover:

1. Additional benefits other than what is previously noted.
2. Effective ratio's of blending with D2
3. Issues with blending D2 with Bio fuel
4. Locations to purchase Bio Fuels
5. Etc.

Thank you!

 

[30_Yr_Dsl_Veteran]

Our Orlando area's Wal Mart Murphy station (where I ALWAYS fuel), says B20 Biodiesel blend on the pump, and in fine print say B5-B20.

 

[ATG]

There are dozens of threads on this subject. I'm not sure another one will have much value.

However, perhaps the moderator here could ask a fuel "guru" to write a concise "sticky" re: D2/bio/additives, specific to CR TDIs. However, I'm not sure it's possible to be concise, as there are so many variable involved.

Your suggested poll will only encourage the same repetitive and sometimes contentious discussion that fills this site's memory and burdens the search function.

Oh I know I'm going to open up a can of worms here...

There are dozens of threads on this subject. I'm not sure another one will have much value...Your suggested poll will only encourage the same repetitive and sometimes contentious discussion that fills this site's memory and burdens the search function.

I am fully aware of "Dozens of threads," on this particular subject and they are piecemeal with often no relevance what so ever. Not to be rude, but your comment "Not sure another one will have much value," does not add value to the intent of my tread. In addition, memory is cheap and there are other instances of repetition on this forum.

What about the other topics and threads started in this same manor, gained popularity, and are now used as a sticky? These very same popular threads were gathered from piecemeal information and "word of mouth," still exists and continues to generate threads by the community?

Your comment buys no value add. Please add relative information, or refrain from posting.

However, perhaps the moderator here could ask a fuel "guru" to write a concise "sticky" re: D2/bio/additives, specific to CR TDIs. However, I'm not sure it's possible to be concise, as there are so many variable involved.

I agree, it would be great to compile such information, that is the intent of this thread. What do you mean by concise?

Lets try to stay on the topic?

 

[Lightflyer1]

Everything has already been said on this but just for you since you couldn't seem to find it:

1. Maybe a slight cetane bump.
2. B5 or less is all that is allowed by VW (especially noteworthy for 2009 and up and excluding Ill. which has an exemption for B20 use).
3. There should be no issues with blending the 2 fuels. Put bio in and then fill tank.
4. All lists that I have seen are way out of date and pretty much useless.
5. Commercial grade bio should be used that has been properly manufactured and tested.

 

[ATG]

Everything has already been said on this but just for you since you couldn't seem to find it:

1. Maybe a slight cetane bump.
2. B5 or less is all that is allowed by VW (especially noteworthy for 2009 and up and excluding Ill. which has an exemption for B20 use).
3. There should be no issues with blending the 2 fuels. Put bio in and then fill tank.
4. All lists that I have seen are way out of date and pretty much useless.
5. Commercial grade bio should be used that has been properly manufactured and tested.

What ratio should be used for bio fuel to D2?

 

[Tuco]

What ratio should be used for bio fuel to D2?

Anything from a 2% to 5% blend should provide plenty of lubrication for the fuel system.

 

[ATG]

Anything from a 2% to 5% blend should provide plenty of lubrication for the fuel system.

To how many gallons? A full tank is 14.5 gallons.

 

[MichaelB]

To how many gallons? A full tank is 14.5 gallons.

Wow what strange reply you gatta' figure out what 2 to 5% of the amount of fuel added is. It doesn't matter what the tank holds.

 

[kapps]

From what I've read, even 2% bio is a huge reduction in wear scar. If I had 99/100% bio to blend, I'd be looking at no more than 1/2gal to a fill up and make sure the fill up was over 10 gal. That gives you no more than 5% bio in the tank. I haven't done this yet but I do come across some B5-B20 stations that I'll usually put 3-5gal in if I know I'm running a tank that only has D2 in it.

 

[ATG]

From what I've read, even 2% bio is a huge reduction in wear scar. If I had 99/100% bio to blend, I'd be looking at no more than 1/2gal to a fill up and make sure the fill up was over 10 gal. That gives you no more than 5% bio in the tank. I haven't done this yet but I do come across some B5-B20 stations that I'll usually put 3-5gal in if I know I'm running a tank that only has D2 in it.

Now this is the information I'm looking for in this thread over the negative / garbage remark that MichaelB provided.

Thanks kapps, so I'm looking at just over 1/2 to 5/8 of a gallon to a full tank fill up. I solely run D2 in my Jetta, so this will be a definate benefit.

I appreciate the information.

 

[Tuco]

I'm running about a 3% blend. 0.4 gallons B99 with 13.1 gallons #2, for a 13.5 gallon fill. Numbers are approximate.

Give it a shot for at least 4 fill-ups. I think your eyes will be wide open by that point.

 

[ATG]

I'm running about a 3% blend. 0.4 gallons B99 with 13.1 gallons #2, for a 13.5 gallon fill. Numbers are approximate.



Give it a shot for at least 4 fill-ups. I think your eyes will be wide open by that point.

What would someone's expectations be after running a blend such as this, over just straight D2?

 

[Tuco]

It will depend on the quality of regular #2 in your area. If the local supply of #2 is very good quality and not too dry, you might not notice a difference. If it is pretty dry, you will quickly notice a difference. You car will eventually run smoother, less noise/vibration/harshness. When mine is warmed up to normal operating temperatures, it now idles at 800 rpm, and it is so quiet and smooth you can barely even tell the engine is running. It won't do that on straight #2...

Just keep in mind your car may run like crap at first, if you have a lot of miles on the odometer running straight #2. The biodiesel will act like a solvent and dissolve a bunch of gunk and residue in the fuel system. You might want to consider a fuel filter change soon after you begin using it.

 

[ATG]

My 2014 jetta is brand spanking new, only 300 miles on it. I'm thinking that I may not need a new fuel filter.

I am concerned about one thing that I have read. This has to do with the dilution of engine oil in regards to unburned biofuels.

Is this a concern with blending biofuels with D2?

 

[kapps]

I'll agree the engine seems to idle more quietly when it's on bio.

 

[Tuco]

My 2014 jetta is brand spanking new, only 300 miles on it. I'm thinking that I may not need a new fuel filter.

I am concerned about one thing that I have read. This has to do with the dilution of engine oil in regards to unburned biofuels.

Is this a concern with blending biofuels with D2?

In your case, don't worry about the fuel filter until it is due at 20K miles. I would start running a bio blend right away, there is no need to wait.

In the newer CR engines (beginning with 2009 model year), running anything higher than a 5% blend (unless you live in Illinois, where all diesel is 11% to 20% biodiesel) will likely void warranties. VW has approved up to a 5% blend because they determined this will not cause excessive engine oil dilution using a 10K mile oil change interval.

It really isn't necessary to run anything higher than 5% for purposes of fuel system lubrication, so stay between 2% to 5% and enjoy the ride.

 

[MichaelB]

Now this is the information I'm looking for in this thread over the negative / garbage remark that MichaelB provided.

Thanks kapps, so I'm looking at just over 1/2 to 5/8 of a gallon to a full tank fill up. I solely run D2 in my Jetta, so this will be a definate benefit.

I appreciate the information.

Negative/garbage:
I still don't get what your looking for. You have been given the ratio Who cares how big the tank is? Mine is 18.5. Its about how much fuel you put in it when you refuel. Could be 10 gals or it could be 14 gals, that's what counts and you have to do the math not just rely on us to tell you how much B100 to add when you fuel up. What is so negative about that? And if the tank is empty figure it out. Use a cheap throw away calculator from the dollar store.

 

[Lightflyer1]

All has been covered before. You really should read if you want to know all the answers to your questions. Adding bio in low percentages probably will not result in any noticeable changes to you when operating. As to the dilution of engine oil as the ratio increases (of Bx) the greater the chance of oil dilution. As VW put out in its letter (posted here on site) percentages up to B20 when used could cause some oil dilution and users are requested to check their oil regularly for a rise in the level. Change the oil if this is noticed and maintain the regular schedule and checking. Your thread is going off track because you didn't study first. No point in rehashing everything that is already known and posted about. None of this is something I know, just from reading here and other sites as well. Your thread is going down the additive/oil route where there are 100's of threads with the same repeating info. Good luck with your new car.

 

[ATG]

All has been covered before. You really should read if you want to know all the answers to your questions. Adding bio in low percentages probably will not result in any noticeable changes to you when operating. As to the dilution of engine oil as the ratio increases (of Bx) the greater the chance of oil dilution. As VW put out in its letter (posted here on site) percentages up to B20 when used could cause some oil dilution and users are requested to check their oil regularly for a rise in the level. Change the oil if this is noticed and maintain the regular schedule and checking. Your thread is going off track because you didn't study first. No point in rehashing everything that is already known and posted about. None of this is something I know, just from reading here and other sites as well. Your thread is going down the additive/oil route where there are 100's of threads with the same repeating info. Good luck with your new car.

Thanks for all the information you have given to this thread! I appreciate it and others can now benefit from this as well. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but your information will definitely not be wasted.

I am unsubscribing from this thread since the goal has been reached.

Thank you again!

 

[30_Yr_Dsl_Veteran]

I'll agree the engine seems to idle more quietly when it's on bio.

That is actually called "placebo effect".