Crank no start 00 Jetta

[Bbb450]

New here and need some guidance! 2000 vw jetta tdi 1.9 327k miles. No mods just regular maintenance and replacing worn parts here and there on this 20yr old girl!!

Driving home from work couple months back and I came around corner, got back on throttle and took off as usual. Went about 100 yards after turn and then died, I coasted a good way to be in a decent spot on side of road. Turned key off, popped hood everything seemed okay under the hood, timing belt in tact, nothing leaking so hopped back in cranked it over a few times and nothing. I towed it home and got home in dark. I Didn't tinker with it until the weekend trying to look online for a few common issues.

Things ive done so far:
-Primed injection pump, made sure air was out of lines and cracked injectors got fuel to shoot out. Cranked over and it seems like it wants to "fire off" but nothing. (crank no start)
-Ran codes with obd-2 tool and came across some bad glow plugs, replaced them and new harness.
-Replaced n75 valve
-Glow plug light would come on then go out as usual but still replaced relay 109.
-Battery went dead so its been on battery tender since I bled IP. I vcds scanned car and got online for some ideas. Battery tender got unplugged one day and forgot to get plugged back it so battery had gone completely dead. I had battery checked a week ago and it was bad. I replaced with new and been hooked up to tender ever since. The car seems to crank a lot better but still no bang...

I'd consider myself mechanically inclined but running low on ideas. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[STDOUBT]

Welcome to TDIClub!
Here's the go-to thread for no-start issues:

Car won't start troubleshooting

Please note that this is a work in progress. If you can help fill in the blanks that I note, please PM me or post here. Thank you. So, your car will not start. This is probably the second most common problem discussed on TDI club, second only to glow plug problems. I will try to outline...

forums.tdiclub.com

However,
What you've described is classic timing belt failure.
When you say timing belt intact, it means nothing unless you have actually eyeballed every inch,
meaning knowing that no teeth are missing AND that it all lines up at TDC - crank/flywheel - Injection Pump - and camshaft.
Have you verified TDC and inspected every tooth of the belt? A bit of work, but that should be your first step IMO!

 

[Bbb450]

Thanks for the reply. I’ll check through the timing belt better. Let’s say some teeth are missing on the belt and it’s out of time, wouldn’t that cause some more issues (valves) because I’ve been cranking on it?

 

[STDOUBT]

Possible damage, yes. Another thing to look at that's pretty easy is remove the valve cover and have a look and feel of the lifters.
You'll want to clear off the lifters and have a good look-see at their condition. Anything but glass-flat and shiny isn't good.
Hopefully your car went just enough out of time to prevent proper fueling, and your cranking didn't bend anything!
Could be I'm off track too, but I can't think of anything else that would account for your engine just up and quitting.
Sounds like you've had this car many years? Timing belt's a huge deal with these cars.
Worst case is you send your head to Franko6 for a world-class rebuild, and motor on!
But again, I could be off track - hopefully some others will chime in!

 

[STDOUBT]

Had another thought. Take of the serp belt and see if the alternator and etc spins easily. They can lock up sometimes, kind of a long shot thought since they usually screech while preventing a start, and I'm not sure if I've heard a case where one has stopped a running engine.

 

[Bbb450]

I’ve had the car almost 3 years now(Damn!) and changed the timing belt when I picked it up just so I knew it had a good one on. I’ll take valve cover off and give it a looking over and also try the belt and check all those goodies...Since Ibsen had it home I’ve bled injectors and cranked it over on quite a few occasions so hopefully I’m not just messing up internals!? Man I’d really like to figure something out since I’ve got time off before work picks back up and don’t have time(or motivation) to work on it! Thanks for the reply.

 

[BobnOH]

Fuel, spark and compression. Of course there is no spark, so fuel+compression. Many folks don't realie fuel is diesel+air. So first thing I would do is get under it and look for disconnected pipes, the big ones. Also check the anti-shudder valve, sometimes they stick shut. And the air snorkle can become completely clogged.

 

[csstevej]

Had another thought. Take of the serp belt and see if the alternator and etc spins easily. They can lock up sometimes, kind of a long shot thought since they usually screech while preventing a start, and I'm not sure if I've heard a case where one has stopped a running engine.

While picking up a pizza for the family I had this happen to me but instead of being the alternator it was the A/c compressor was locked in the engage position.
The symptom for me was car acted like a dead battery.....tried to push start and pop clutch....no dice....
When I cut the A/C belt car started fine and was able to drive home....minus the alt ,A/C and power steering.

 

[Bbb450]

K I’ll definitely check hoses and the like. I’ll completely remove SERP belt and see if everything spins fast it should. Man that would be awesome if it was the ac compressor since I found this one at the junk yard! Might have to make another trip. Y’all are full of info thanks so much

 

[mittzlepick]

Wire to ip getting voltage with key on?
Pull serp belt turn it over same engine speed turning over?
Givine it whiffs of starting fluid to see if it rumbles?
Prime with vacuum on return line, ig nore the bubbles in clear side as they present even on a running car and will me you nuts like that fish in finding nemo.
It spurts at injectors all 4? So not likely ip shutoff wire.
Can or crank sensor? Try no start checklist. Pull maf sensor wire plug of at airbox i had one screw me to the point i replaced an ip
Because it was so whacky.
Best of luck and find a vagcom buddy to look at things like ecm comunication

 

[STDOUBT]

Givine it whiffs of starting fluid to see if it rumbles?

Please no one ever do this.
mitzlepick, everything you mention is a bad idea if TDC is not first verified.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

Starting fluid and glow plugs go boom. Never starting fluid.

 

[Bbb450]

Finally Took the serp belt off and everything spins freely by hand, cranked it over and no start. Looked at piping everything’s connected. Checked to make sure there wasn’t anything in the intake and made sure asv was opened up. Left hoses off egr and hose off air box and saw black smoke coming from both while cranking!?... is that no bueno? Still cranks and sputters like it’s wanting to fire off but nothing! Ahh also trying to check voltage to ip and not sure what everything needs to be

 

[STDOUBT]

How about verifying TDC? How'd that go?

 

[Bbb450]

That’s tomorrow. I’ll dig into YouTube and figure how to set tdc and what should I be on the look out for? Be sure Everything is in time haha anything major that I should keep an eye out for? Thanks

 

[Tdijarhead]

Here’s the timing belt procedure. Hit the download button in the upper right corner. It will show you how to set the engine at TDC. While you’re doing that you can inspect the entire belt for missing teeth.

A4 Timing belt procedure

A4/MKIV Timing belt procedure

forums.tdiclub.com

 

[Bbb450]

I’d like to meet the vw engineer who came up with the idea for using these soft bolts! I was in process of taking valve cover off and rounded out head of Allen bolt. Sooo in process of removing intake manifold to get more room on valve bolts I also took off turbo piping to get more room and once pipe was off turbo I just wanted to spin the turbine... NO SPIN! So I’ll be getting all that removed and out so I can see what all needs replaced. Any recommendations on turbos or what I could/should do?

 

[Tdijarhead]

Idparts, metalmanparts, either of them can help you with a real oem turbo vs a fake chinese knockoff that will last about as long as it takes to put it on.

 

[STDOUBT]

Any recommendations on turbos or what I could/should do?

I might actually give one of these a try if the '01's turbo ever goes out! She already has Wuzetem nozzles... Poland FTW!

Kode ALH VNT-15 Billet Wheel Turbo | TDI Upgrades

New KODE VNT15 turbo for the US-spec ALH TDI engine. This turbo provides great driveability and has proven durable in TDIs, even when chipped. It can easily and reliably run 20 PSI. We have decades of turbocharger experience in both OE and aftermarket performance, and our version of the famous...

www.tdiupgrades.com

 

[Bbb450]

I’ll check all those out. Im kinda steering toward someone’s turbo they pulled off. Not trying to sound cheap but if I’m gunna spend $800 on a turbo I’m going bigger then have to do other mods and not really wanting that just yet. Anyways I got my turbo out of the car and on the bench I was able to get the spinny deals to spin haha. I removed the vacuum actuator that moves the arm for the veins and that arm is STUCK. I got it to wiggle a little bit then zero movement. I’m thinking turbo being locked up and exhaust gas not having anywhere to go stalled the engine out while I was driving? But anyways when I removed the turbo I noticed there wasn’t any oil in the oil feed line. Is that normal? There was a little bit in the return line off the bottom of turbo. Should I get a braided line? Also thanks for all the reply’s! This is great


“We strongly recommend replacing the turbo oil feed line when installing a new turbo, especially if your current turbo failed. Oil feed line clogging is a common cause of turbo failure.”


Just saw this on idparts.com

 

[STDOUBT]

Most people go for the braided turbo feed line, but I wish I had kept my original.
Cleaned out well, they just seem more trustworthy to me.
If you go braided, check and make sure the orifice is nice and big like the OEM lines'.
Some braided lines came out that had a tiny hole for oil ingress.
No idea why your oil feed line was empty. Would explain a dead turbo, though!

 

[wonneber]

I would crank the engine over for a few seconds with relay 109 out.
You should get oil out of the hole in the block.
If not, dig deeper.

 

[AndyBees]

If the Turbo locked solid (no spin at all), it would not cause the engine to die or not start. There is ample space for exhaust gases to pass thru. The Vanes do not totally block the flow in any position!

I'm thinking something happened relating to the Timing Belt. It is out of time or it would start. Or, the Injection Pump died. Voltage to the Shut-off valve is only 12 volts for about 5 seconds when the ignition is first turned On. Then it will drop fast to zero.

If you find the problem and do not need to remove the head, keep in mind, it is a good idea to clean the Intake Ports in the head before re-installing a clean Intake Manifold. The crud is more brittle in those intake ports and easily broken off now that the "bridge" between the head and intake has been broken............ flaking off will occur and could be catastrophic to the engine.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

Dutch Auto Parts see post #3

Dutch Auto Parts, gearbox sets, engines, turbos, injection pumps

Dutch Auto Parts is specialized in TDI parts. We sell quality used, rebuild, and new TDI parts. Auto to manual kits, injection pumps, standard and custom turbos, engines, engine swaps, engine parts, gearboxes, euro headlights etc We have been on the forum for several years now, it’s time to...

forums.tdiclub.com

His used turbos are cleaned and given the 360 degree end plate. A used vnt-15 is $275.00 and his turbos are rock solid.

 

[Bbb450]

I ordered an oem hard line.

wonneber- good idea on pulling 109 I’ll for sure give that a go!

ive pulled intake, egr stuff and exhaust/turbo setup so I’ll be sure and clean buildup off before booting anything back on, makes sense thanks Andybees.

day late and dollar short on finding out about Dutch auto! I’ll keep them in mind for future stuff. Got a used turbo on the way Tuesday morning for $300 and it’s supposed to have 87k miles on it.

I set engine to tdc and have access to 100% of the belt and have looked it over and cannot see any missing teeth and fraying to the belt itself with it still on the car should I remove it? So what’s left to check as far as engine being at tdc?

 

[AndyBees]

If you never saw anything obvious while inspecting the TB, I cannot imagine any reason to remove it. Although I've not done mechanic wrenching for a living, I've changed a crap-load of Timing Belts on ALH and BEW engines! I've only seen one that Teeth stripped off. Age and miles are the two main reasons belts fail. Yes, chemical spills (diesel fuel, oil) and critters chewing on them are probably next. And, of course there's always the possibility of manufacturing failures............. I'd leave the TB on and continue concentrating on other obvious reasons a Diesel Engine might quit running.

Below are a couple of pics of the TB on the ALH engine in my 84 Vanagon. That TB had 50k miles on it... when the Water Pump locked up! I was lucky to realize something was going on with the engine (I have hearing issues) as I was running about 55 mph when the incident occurred. The TB did not jump time. The engine did not have any other issues. I had the vehicle towed and replaced everything with a new TB kit.

 

[STDOUBT]

I ordered an oem hard line.

Cool! Just keep in mind they are easy to bend out of shape and any real bending will potentially compromise the tube to the point it may actually split in future. Just take your time mounting it, and think it out ahead of time.
Also of paramount importance is the rubber mounts for it that hold it still so it vibes with the engine rather than on its own.
I'd get new mounts for it if your original ones rubber seems at all stressed/dried/cracked.

 

[AndyBees]

FWIW, I've had the OE hard line off and on several times on the ALH in my Vanagon. Also, I had to modified the "bend" due to the left side motor mount bracket. However, what STDOUBT said relating to the hard line mounts is critical. You don't want it to be unsupported as the engine vibes will destroy it.

 

[Bbb450]

Okay new to me turbo and clean intake are put back on car. I didn’t put egr valve and cooler back on but I put the coolant hoses back together with a barb fitting. Filled turbo with some liqui moly turbo oil and had oil in the supply line to the turbo and cranked it over a few times. Still no bang so I thought hey maybe the ip bled some fuel off so I reprinted it and the injectors and cranked again no luck! Even with a new battery and it’s on a charger all the time (just in case) it seems it’s not turning over very “healthy”.

 

[STDOUBT]

it seems it’s not turning over very “healthy”.

Well, in this whole thread, no one has mentioned how old the starter motor is...
Where does your tachometer hit while cranking?
EDIT: one more thing - when you set to TDC, did you happen to manually rotate the engine a couple times,
then re-verify TDC?