CR140 Stage 3

[DieselRacer]

That is just the stock turbo which your car has already you want a cr170 turbo...

 

[DieselRacer]

Read page 1 of the thread it tells you everything you need and basically how to swap it...

 

[Paulinski]

The link you posted in for stock CR turbo.

You need CR 170 turbo plus everything listed in the first post of this thread.

Yes your ECU would need to be re-flashed to stage 3.

 

[bloc]

You know that feeling when you have a brand new CR170 turbo and Rawtek exhaust installed, and the car is all bolted back together, but you are waiting for your ECU to get back before you can start it... and the weekend is coming up?

Yeah, that feeling. Maybe Monday.

 

[SBAtdijetta]

Eh, not yet... lol

I do know the feeling of your car being sans turbo, manifold, or ECU. Not fun!

 

[DubOn937]

You know that feeling when you have a brand new CR170 turbo...and the car is all bolted back together, but you are waiting for your ECU to get back before you can start it... and the weekend is coming up?

Yeah, that feeling. Maybe Monday.

Lol. Nope!

 

[bloc]

Ha.. sucks to be you guys!

Kidding. I understand.

Either way.. I was able to sell my relatively low-mileage, stock tune DPF and turbo for within a few hundred dollars of paying for the CR170 turbo and intake. I had already bought the Rawtek down & mid pipes (with cat & resonator).. so the only other additional cost was the difference between stage 2 and 3 tunes. I asked about stage 2 with the CR170 turbo (to spare my clutch & IC piping, plan being to uncork it at a later date when supporting mods are in place) but no go.. so I ended up doing a tune on the mild side of Stage 3.

This thread is on point with regard to everything bolting up. Getting the DPF out was just as difficult as expected. Afterward, I unbolted the LP EGR cooler from the block, unbolted the cooling portion from the control portion (six T-25 torx screws), and slipped the two halves out between the axle & subframe. At that point getting to the manifold bolts was easy, and there was JUST enough room between the subframe/axle/oil pan to get the old turbo out and new turbo in. The heat shield on the exhaust manifold now only has 1 mounting bolt (as opposed to two) and needed slight trimming to clear the transmission-side extra stud on the CR170 manifold. I used a brass 90 degree 1" PEX elbow to bypass the EGR coolant hoses.. the hose running to the block was kept stock length, and I cut about 2.5" off the one running to the heater core. This hugged the brass elbow up against the other heater core hose, and was zip-tied beside it. There was a very small EGT sensor built into the LP EGR cooler.. for now that is still connected and tied out of the way. If I do anything else with the tune I'll figure out what sensor it is and have fault checking turned off.

How are you guys handling EGT readout? I'm running stock cat-back until I figure out which one I like and can afford, and it wouldn't be too difficult to stick a sensor in the HP EGR blockoff plate. But that's only cyl 1, and seems redundant when there are already FOUR EGT probes installed. I've seen mention of scangauge being configured to display one of the stock sensors.. your thoughts?

 

[A5INKY]

...There was a very small EGT sensor built into the LP EGR cooler.. for now that is still connected and tied out of the way. If I do anything else with the tune I'll figure out what sensor it is and have fault checking turned off...

You can unplug and remove that sensor, won't throw a DTC. Just do your best to seal the connector up so water doesn't short it out. Same as the rest of them that are no longer used.

...How are you guys handling EGT readout? I'm running stock cat-back until I figure out which one I like and can afford, and it wouldn't be too difficult to stick a sensor in the HP EGR blockoff plate. But that's only cyl 1, and seems redundant when there are already FOUR EGT probes installed. I've seen mention of scangauge being configured to display one of the stock sensors.. your thoughts?

Yes, it would be redundant to add yet another EGT sensor. The one in the turbine inlet can be found in group 99 using VCDS. Really though, once you have logged your tune and Malone has made any needed adjustments to keep the EGT limiter from being hit there is no need to monitor EGTs. Malone Stage 3 tuning keeps ECU's self protective EGT limit in place so that you cannot burn anything up. That said, if you really want to monitor EGTs you could use one of the DLC connected gauges like the one from P3Cars or even a Scan Gauge II using the "X Gauge" feature.

 

[uninc]

Ha.. sucks to be you guys!

Kidding. I understand.

Either way.. I was able to sell my relatively low-mileage, stock tune DPF and turbo for within a few hundred dollars of paying for the CR170 turbo and intake. I had already bought the Rawtek down & mid pipes (with cat & resonator).. so the only other additional cost was the difference between stage 2 and 3 tunes. I asked about stage 2 with the CR170 turbo (to spare my clutch & IC piping, plan being to uncork it at a later date when supporting mods are in place) but no go.. so I ended up doing a tune on the mild side of Stage 3.

This thread is on point with regard to everything bolting up. Getting the DPF out was just as difficult as expected. Afterward, I unbolted the LP EGR cooler from the block, unbolted the cooling portion from the control portion (six T-25 torx screws), and slipped the two halves out between the axle & subframe. At that point getting to the manifold bolts was easy, and there was JUST enough room between the subframe/axle/oil pan to get the old turbo out and new turbo in. The heat shield on the exhaust manifold now only has 1 mounting bolt (as opposed to two) and needed slight trimming to clear the transmission-side extra stud on the CR170 manifold. I used a brass 90 degree 1" PEX elbow to bypass the EGR coolant hoses.. the hose running to the block was kept stock length, and I cut about 2.5" off the one running to the heater core. This hugged the brass elbow up against the other heater core hose, and was zip-tied beside it. There was a very small EGT sensor built into the LP EGR cooler.. for now that is still connected and tied out of the way. If I do anything else with the tune I'll figure out what sensor it is and have fault checking turned off.

How are you guys handling EGT readout? I'm running stock cat-back until I figure out which one I like and can afford, and it wouldn't be too difficult to stick a sensor in the HP EGR blockoff plate. But that's only cyl 1, and seems redundant when there are already FOUR EGT probes installed. I've seen mention of scangauge being configured to display one of the stock sensors.. your thoughts?

Where were you able to sell your stock parts? Ebay?

 

[bloc]

...Yes, it would be redundant to add yet another EGT sensor.... That said, if you really want to monitor EGTs you could use one of the DLC connected gauges like the one from P3Cars or even a Scan Gauge II using the "X Gauge" feature....

Good tech, thanks.

Where were you able to sell your stock parts? Ebay?

Someone local. They apparently wanted spares, and mine were quite low mileage. I haven't looked at what used stuff is getting here in the classifieds, but I got about half of what they'd cost new.. which seems fair for lightly used parts. To be clear, I didn't get enough to almost pay for the turbo/tune/exhaust.. just the turbo.

 

[1dieselsteve]

Ok we are now getting heavily modified with our jettas. Any of you nervous about reselling them? Even if the state does not require emissions? That's the only thing I'm concerned about, however I'm just as guilty since I already have the dpf gone and tuned. Looking also myself at the CR170 turbo and the stage 3 from Malone. But what I didn't know that the Malone stage 3 was variable. So if it's cranked all the way, can the DSG tranny handle the power, or do upgrades need to come next. If and when I'm ready what else do I need to do for this upgrade. I love speed and power.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Keep in mind that modified cars usually don't command a price premium over stock. Most buyers don't want modified cars. You may be able to find an enthusiast who likes the mods and will pay for them, but it limits the potential buyers.

I think the emissions issue is a big one. My modified '02 will pass emissions in any state. A DPF deleted common rail car will not. So even if the buyer for your car is in a state where it will pass, he or she may be concerned about reselling it to a buyer in a state where it won't.

My .02 is that if you look at mods as an expense you won't recover, and if you protect yourself by keeping the stuff that will allow you to put the car back to stock, you're fine.

 

[SirSipsAbit]

Every car I've owned

Keep in mind that modified cars usually don't command a price premium over stock. Most buyers don't want modified cars. You may be able to find an enthusiast who likes the mods and will pay for them, but it limits the potential buyers.
I think the emissions issue is a big one. My modified '02 will pass emissions in any state. A DPF deleted common rail car will not. So even if the buyer for your car is in a state where it will pass, he or she may be concerned about reselling it to a buyer in a state where it won't.
My .02 is that if you look at mods as an expense you won't recover, and if you protect yourself by keeping the stuff that will allow you to put the car back to stock, you're fine.

Every car I owned has been heavily modified. Yes it is key to keep all stock parts and put it back to stock when selling. I've always recovered about 60% of my modified costs when parting out. Of course my labor is worth nothing, but I do all my work myself.

 

[1dieselsteve]

As of right now I have kept everything and plan on it anyways. The only thing that may have to be replaced is the OEM muffler. Had to cut it to get it out from underneath the car. Or is it even worth keeping

 

[bloc]

I know you guys aren't specifically talking about my situation, but just another viewpoint. I only mentioned selling the DPF/turbo to fund the CR170 chunk because it made it easy to do at the time.

I tend to keep cars for a LONG time, so from that perspective this was more than a simple economics issue for me. DPF removal most likely helps reliability in other areas.. though one could argue I'm cancelling that out with the added stresses from a bigger turbo and tune.

I also imagine the aftermarket stepping up to the plate with regard to the DPF replacement/repair/salvage/renewal business at some point, so I don't imagine returning the car back to stock, if needed, as being super difficult or expensive way off in the future. Besides, if VW can't get on top of the HPFP issue, there may be a whole lot of acceptable DPFs and CR engines minus fuel systems available in the future.. cheap.

Beyond the DPF/NOX cat and stock turbo, everything else is sitting in a bucket and will go into the shed, just in case.

Since we are talking economics.. over 200k miles a 3mpg gain from DPF removal returns about $900, assuming $3.5/gal fuel. That total goes up as fuel gets more expensive, which seems inevitable. That'd pay for downpipe & tune.. and most likely help turbo & underhood accessory reliability/longevity. I could go on a tangent about DPF delete allowing home biodiesel brewing & use.. but I won't.

Personally, almost every car I've ever owned has been pretty heavily modded when sold. This includes 3 different vehicles (only 1 vw) that I bought as automatics, and sold as manuals. One a gas to diesel swap. Economics have pretty much never entered the picture.. I enjoy tinkering on cars and making them as "good" as I know how, all while serving the function of getting me around town and giving less of my money to the oil companies.

I can't wait to see what this turbo does for an already very fun to drive car.

 

[SirSipsAbit]

Nice set up

Went and had my jetta tuned with my new downpipe. Then three of us piled in with Jon behind the wheel of his JSW. The CR170 turbo has more butt dyno torque, more butt dyno power and the caveat is you get another 1,000 rpm of useable range! His is set up to pull decent over 5,600 rpm! The butt dyno with three people in his car says it's comparable to just me in my car. On my want list!!!

 

[MIVWTDI]

One more flash today

We finally got the tune correct thanks to Mark Malone!!

 

[Paulinski]

Got the S3 IC installed yesterday. One step closer lol

 

[1dieselsteve]

Got the S3 IC installed yesterday. One step closer lol

Have you noticed anything differently since the install

 

[JFettig]

I will be doing a different IC, I'm installing a Treadstone TR6 in front of my stock IC, will only run the Treadstone but leave the stock one in there because it spaces out and mounts the condenser.

 

[Paulinski]

Have you noticed anything differently since the install

Lower EGT's on my P3 gauge. Seems normal driving is 100 deg less than before and under hard acceleration they climb slower and drop off quicker.

My unscientific observations.

It also gets rid of the nasty factory clip connectors.

I'm doing the CR170 turbo next.

 

[BuzzKen]

Just drove to Florida with my cr170, S3 intercooler. IAT's never went more than 10 degrees celsius over ambient temps in any situation.

 

[jsrmonster]

One more flash today

We finally got the tune correct thanks to Mark Malone!!

I am curious about your fuel consumption in field 015 at full chat (ie. 4500 rpms) 3rd gear? Good data given in vaglogs of field 001, 008, and 011 too. (ie torque values in the mid to upper 400nm's in 008)

My '09 RC3 is seeing 52 l/hr. and 1600degF too. I eliminated my pre-turbo egt sensor, and used the port for my isspro egt gage. I am running 70mg/R fueling with this turbo. I estimate 180hp/325ftlbs (my dsg will shudder at 350ftlbs). (I am straight piped of course)

I'll run 90mg/R when I get my big turbo installed, but don't know if injector can supply that like my pd150 race motor (250/375). I am hopping the bigger turbo should offer 225hp/350ftlb with oem injector/pump combo.

Jeff

 

[TDI-JAY]

I am curious about your fuel consumption in field 015 at full chat (ie. 4500 rpms) 3rd gear? Good data given in vaglogs of field 001, 008, and 011 too. (ie torque values in the mid to upper 400nm's in 008)

My '09 RC3 is seeing 52 l/hr. and 1600degF too. I eliminated my pre-turbo egt sensor, and used the port for my isspro egt gage. I am running 70mg/R fueling with this turbo. I estimate 180hp/325ftlbs (my dsg will shudder at 350ftlbs). (I am straight piped of course)

I'll run 90mg/R when I get my big turbo installed, but don't know if injector can supply that like my pd150 race motor (250/375). I am hopping the bigger turbo should offer 225hp/350ftlb with oem injector/pump combo.

Jeff

Jeff,

When are you going with the CR170 turbo? I've done about 6,000 miles since the RC3 tune / 170 turbo - loving it ! ! ! I'd be curious how my same set up goes on a DSG car.

Just drove to Florida with my cr170, S3 intercooler. IAT's never went more than 10 degrees celsius over ambient temps in any situation.

That's awesome - that is my next project!!!!

 

[jsf350]

got my cr170 the other day..
where are we getting new manifold gaskets?

 

[bloc]

idparts has them, same part as stock. not too expensive either. http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2532

I went ahead and got all new manifold nuts, comp outlet oring, oil return orings/gasket, etc from them.

I don't know if it was official (wasn't advertised) but when I bought my new turbo/intake pipe/extra filters & misc. from IDParts it included an install kit.. on top of the install parts I ordered separately. That works out.. I like having spares of stuff like that.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

We have a complete installation kit that comes with the CR170 turbo we sell. It's not available on the site by itself, but if you give us a call we can get it to you. It includes all the gaskets Jon lists at the beginning of this thread and is $44.

 

[TDI-JAY]

We have a complete installation kit that comes with the CR170 turbo we sell. It's not available on the site by itself, but if you give us a call we can get it to you. It includes all the gaskets Jon lists at the beginning of this thread and is $44.

That's the kit that I used, it had every nut, bolt, gasket & O-Ring that you will need. Highly Recommend as there is NOTHING worst than getting into a project and realize you are missing something.

 

[CRJSW]

We have a complete installation kit that comes with the CR170 turbo we sell. It's not available on the site by itself, but if you give us a call we can get it to you. It includes all the gaskets Jon lists at the beginning of this thread and is $44.

Sweet so you guys carry the 170 turbo then? I ordered a 140 a while back but sent it back cause it ended up being the boost/intercooler tube was cracked. Thinking of one of the GTB Darkside kits too though. Itll be a couple months yet.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

We have the CR170s in stock as well.