CR140 Flapper Valve Performance...

03_01_TDI

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Denmark
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_c_iXBWYXg&list=PL3078E4B98E69EE18

@ 1:15 minutes they talk about the use of the flapper valves in the CR TDI

They continue to talk about the effects of the flapper valves as they clearly state these help pull cool egr gasses. At 1:35. "Allows the engine to operate with a very high rate of back feed cooled exhaust gas".


That said it would appear VW uses all three to get that EG into the intake. Exhaust, intake, and flappers.
 
Last edited:

bassman5066

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Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Location
Honey Brook PA
TDI
2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_c_iXBWYXg&list=PL3078E4B98E69EE18

@ 1:15 minutes they talk about the use of the flapper valves in the CR TDI

They continue to talk about the effects of the flapper valves as they clearly state these help pull cool egr gasses. At 1:35. "Allows the engine to operate with a very high rate of back feed cooled exhaust gas".


That said it would appear VW uses all three to get that EG into the intake. Exhaust, intake, and flappers.
It just says it allows it to run with heavy EGR, not that it is a factor in pulling it in. I would say if anything, it just causes EGR to more fully mix with intake air because of the turbulence caused by swirl.

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bassman5066

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Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Location
Honey Brook PA
TDI
2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
^ double negative for MPG. Not one but two restriction points to create engine vacuum.
Yes, but those two restrictions (intake throttle and exhaust throttle) aren't what were talking about here. Deleting the intake swirl flappers won't change anything about how those two restrictions operate.

FWIW, my DPF delete also deleted the exhaust throttle and now that I also deleted EGR, the only function the intake throttle plays is as an anti shudder valve, which could also be deleted now that I don't have EGR.

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mamock116

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Jan 18, 2012
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
Anyone ever find a trick to doing this mod without pulling off the fuel rails? The last 2 screws are blocked by the fuel rails.
 

1972SS454

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Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Location
Fernandina Beach, FL
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI, 99.5 Jetta TDI
Edit, this was an earlier post in this thread. Special tools galore. Thank VW :mad:
I have bought the tool since then.... I have been busy replacing my ALH accessory bracket/timing belt....but I will check to see if it will allow me to get to the bolts without removing the fuel rail.
 

1972SS454

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Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Location
Fernandina Beach, FL
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI, 99.5 Jetta TDI
I have bought the tool since then.... I have been busy replacing my ALH accessory bracket/timing belt....but I will check to see if it will allow me to get to the bolts without removing the fuel rail.
Good news!!! Using special tool T40159 I was able to get access to each of the ten (10) valve cover bolts and break each one loose! In order to get access to all of them I just had to unbolt the fuel rail from the head and unbolt the coolant line and fuel return and supply lines that attach to the intake manifold. I did have to pry up on the rail just very very slightly to get good access to the bolt under the rail pressure sensor. In order to access the bolt second from top left i had to unbolt the fuel supply and return lines on top of intake manifold and also remove the small bracket that they bolt to.

It does appear that there will be enough room to wiggle the intake manifold out after unbolting the above items AND removing flap motor, unplugging glow plugs, fuel pressure sensor and fuel injectors and unbolting/ removing HP EGR and ASV.

*Edit* Added photos below. Only took pictures of bolts with tight access or that stuff had to be removed....The rest are easily accessible.

Showing fuel rail, coolant line, fuel supply and return lines and small bracket unbolted:


Small bracket for fuel return and supply lines that bolt to intake manifold:


Access to bolt under rail pressure sensor:


Access to bolt 2nd from top left (just right of bolt under rail pressure sensor):


Access to top right bolt (under rail pressure relief valve):
 
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03_01_TDI

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Dec 10, 2003
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Denmark
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I disconnected flap motor just to see what would happen.I seem to have lost some low end torque on the butt dyno. I also have noticed that the Jetta DSG doesn't shudder at low speeds (in a parking garage) but this is all during my lunch break.

I know I didn't remove the flaps but I wanted to see what it would do with the motor disconnected.

Codes P2017 and P2008 popped up. Reattached it.
Ive had my motor disconnected for a couple days with no CEL. Maybe because I have a Stage 2 tune?

Id like to find a used manifold to rip apart.
I'm curious about just unplugging this for those with stage 2 tune? Did the tuner already tune them to stay open or just that it ignores the cel from that location if there is a fault.


My buddy has an off-road only stage 2 CRtdi. He unplugged the flapper and noticed better drivability when in a high gear at 1000-1300rpms. Also better off line 1st gear on normal take off. With the flappers plugged in the engine struggled and shuddered at those low rpms when under a load. He also noticed a slighter higher idle rpm about 940. No CEL thrown on the few short trips today. About a 3 mpg gain. He has never 49mpg for short trips in this cooler weather.

The ecu didn't request a downshift as early.
 
Last edited:

crpowa

Member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Location
pr
TDI
2009 Jetta tdi
what mods do you have on your car ?

JW
I have the following:
upgraded aluminum intercooler, degrid maf, malone stage2 and dsg tune, dpf delete, rawtek dp, 3 " full exhaust, afe intake, darkside egr delete and flapper valves removed.

full gti brakes and suspension, 24mm rear sway bar, 17 eos wheels, projector headlamps from gti, gti wheel st.

I may be missing a few mods but that about covers it.

any questions fell free to ask.
 

kentr6727

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Sep 25, 2009
Location
Echo
TDI
None
I believe this part was either needed to meet a part of the US EPA emission test or has some part in DPM control system.
 

mamock116

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Jan 18, 2012
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
It really wasnt that hard of a mod either. If you can remove the resonance dampener then you can do this mod. I am not sure if the Snap-On tool is required but it sure made things easier.
 

JM Popaleetus

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Mar 15, 2010
Location
Connecticut
TDI
Signature.
Storx, did Mark ever get back to you on fully integrating this mod into his tune?

It's an easy enough mod to do in addition to the Stage 3 CR170 swap.
 

JFettig

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Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Storx, did Mark ever get back to you on fully integrating this mod into his tune?

It's an easy enough mod to do in addition to the Stage 3 CR170 swap.
I tested this out both deleted via tune and physically unplugged. I saw no difference in performance whatsoever.
 

storx

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Jan 16, 2006
Location
Earth!!
TDI
2009 Jetta CR140, 2010 Corvette Z06
I ran it with it plugged in and deleted which helped with the mid-range on the larger turbo i have.. and then i unplugged it and felt no difference, so i would have to say its correctly written out.. with no codes.
 

mamock116

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Jan 18, 2012
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Savannah, GA
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
It made a very noticeable difference with starting from a stop. There is no more bog and I don't have to give it hardly any fuel to get moving. Great for the stop and go traffic on my work commute. I also believe the car feels smoother from 1k to 2k. After 2k I dont really notice a difference.
 

JFettig

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Blaine, MN
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B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Still, zero difference, placebo is very effective!

Especially when Storx says mid range it made it more powerful, lol the valves are wide open mid range anyway so it made exactly ZERO difference.
 

storx

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Jan 16, 2006
Location
Earth!!
TDI
2009 Jetta CR140, 2010 Corvette Z06
Still, zero difference, placebo is very effective!

Especially when Storx says mid range it made it more powerful, lol the valves are wide open mid range anyway so it made exactly ZERO difference.
I understand what your talking about Jfettig, but you can hear it in the engine sound.. its like the valve was getting held up or something around 2k rpms.. fighting between closed and open.. i found when i would go a specific speed on cruise control before i turned it off.. it would almost feel like an automatic transmission searching for a gear.. when my car is an manual...

Also, with the larger turbo.. deleting it from the tune.. got rid of the on/off difference between no power and power during spool up.. now the power onset is more gradual compared to before..

You can ask Mark yourself John, when we did a comparison on the same tune with it programmed in the tune.. we did 3rd gear pulls with it plugged in and then unplugged causing an code.. the turbo actually spooled about 200rpms sooner across most of the spool up curve, but the actual turbo starting to spool was delayed about 200rpms also.. but after that delay.. the spool up without the flapper was actually quicker.. and this was all without a change to the tune..
 

mamock116

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Jan 18, 2012
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
Meh haters gonna hate. I didnt do it for more power anyway. I just did it for more smoothness and reliability. When looking at how gunked up my flaps were I can see how those things could get clogged down the road.
 

DieselRacer

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Oct 4, 2013
Location
AZ-NV
TDI
BMW Advanced Diesel...2011 BMW 335d
Meh haters gonna hate. I didnt do it for more power anyway. I just did it for more smoothness and reliability. When looking at how gunked up my flaps were I can see how those things could get clogged down the road.
I drove my 09 with 150000 on it with no reliability issues with the flappers, look at the dyno graphs their is no difference in power, or is the dyno lying, and the dyno results that were suppose to be downloaded on here, to show a gain, by a member, I wont name ,never provided them, funny how that works...
 

JFettig

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Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Meh haters gonna hate. I didnt do it for more power anyway. I just did it for more smoothness and reliability. When looking at how gunked up my flaps were I can see how those things could get clogged down the road.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about. - Wayne Dyer
 
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