CR140 Flapper Valve Performance...

[storx]

i dont care if there was gains or not.. i prefer the smoothness of the spoolup without the flaps.. over the on/off feeling before.. also.. 6th gear cruising around town is easier.. compared to with them..just slightly.. but i do get MORE soot on my rear bumper with them turned off..

 

[mamock116]

I concur with both of you.

 

[v8 coupe]

Plastic intake is stupid for big boost I'm kinda surprised no one has popped one so far.

 

[Rub87]

Dunno, looks to fairly well made..

I have a A4 with stock dual SMIC runnign 2.4 bar for a year now.. wonders me more that the intercoolers are still dry =)

 

[storx]

Im not surprised.. i have seen some very high pressure conditions inside of plastic peaces.. example the air compressor i have, the water trap is a thin plastic peace that screws on/off and its under pressure all the time of 200+ psi

 

[v8 coupe]

I just don't like the idea of a plastic in an high boost application. Plus it's almost impossible to port match it, with no reference. I'm talking boost above 5 bar.

 

[hymato]

Do I need to replace any gaskets with this mod?

 

[mamock116]

I didn't but you could to be on the safe side.

 

[Anonymous911]

I have a bone stock '13 Golf TDI, is it ok to unplug the intake flap motor?

 

[mamock116]

no you will get a CEL if you just unplug it. If you pull the flaps but leave the motor plugged in, you will not get a CEL.

 

[hymato]

Did the flapper removal today. Didn't have to move the common rail since I had the tool. Was very easy hardest part was cleaning out all of the gunk in the intake plenum. Look how much oil is in my intake tube. I'm currently working with BSH speedshop on designing a tdi specific catch can setup for the common rail motors cause clearly the stock ccv is no where near cutting it.

 

[kjclow]

I left the rod in place so I would not have to worry about plugging holes. Ill post up mileage results after a week or so. So far no CEL's.

Any update on a mileage change?

 

[storx]

Ive been averaging 38.6mpg with 100% city driving.. without it.. based on fuelly app.. on fill ups..

 

[hymato]

Storx did you put the rod back in place? Or did you fill the holes of the tabs at all?

 

[kjclow]

Ive been averaging 38.6mpg with 100% city driving.. without it.. based on fuelly app.. on fill ups..

Sorry, but I don't follow. Are you getting better mileage since this simple mod?

 

[mamock116]

I cant report on mileage yet. It seems I am getting better but I want to wait till I have done a few tanks before I jump to conclusions.

 

[hymato]

Did anyone take the rod out completely? I took mine out and now I'm getting a intake flapper motor code.

Update: I just removed the motor checked to make sure everything was moving freely which it is. Hooked everything back up and performed the intake flap output test threw the vcds and nothing was moving, I gave it alil pry with a screwdriver and it immediately jumped open and closed. I then tried the output test again and nothing moved. I'm stumped everything seems to be moving fine but why the code?

Update 2: I had the black linkage rod facing the wrong direction everything's working for now. Just ran output tests and I'm A ok!!!

 

[TDI_Coast2Coast]

Does anyone know how long after you shut down that the flapper motor makes noise/positions itself? I swear the flapper motor has been louder and almost sounds like it is going through it's cycle 2x when I shut down now.

For anyone that still has it in, can you shut down engine and see how it takes to finish it's thing....I'm wondering if mine is funked up. No codes, but my mileage has been a bit on the low side lately. Power doesn't really seem effected.

I unplugged it out of curiosity and while it could definitely be a placebo effect, it feels like it is much better at lower RPM's. It felt like in 2nd gear my tires wanted to let loose more. Again, within placebo effect range I suppose.

On a side note: I have not had the hard start issue I have been having since I unplugged it. I don't see how it could have any effect on starting. Just an odd coincidence I suppose.

 

[bassman5066]

Does anyone know how long after you shut down that the flapper motor makes noise/positions itself? I swear the flapper motor has been louder and almost sounds like it is going through it's cycle 2x when I shut down now.

For anyone that still has it in, can you shut down engine and see how it takes to finish it's thing....I'm wondering if mine is funked up. No codes, but my mileage has been a bit on the low side lately. Power doesn't really seem effected.

I unplugged it out of curiosity and while it could definitely be a placebo effect, it feels like it is much better at lower RPM's. It felt like in 2nd gear my tires wanted to let loose more. Again, within placebo effect range I suppose.

On a side note: I have not had the hard start issue I have been having since I unplugged it. I don't see how it could have any effect on starting. Just an odd coincidence I suppose.

The noise you hear at shut down is more likely the exhaust flapper valve. Its sort of like a throttle body in your exhaust that is there to regulate back pressure and therefore EGR flow. Mine is now deleted and I no longer get the noise at shutdown.

I believe there is a TSB regarding the valve in the exhaust so it may be worth bringing to the dealer if you still happen to be under warranty.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[TDI_Coast2Coast]

The noise you hear at shut down is more likely the exhaust flapper valve. Its sort of like a throttle body in your exhaust that is there to regulate back pressure and therefore EGR flow. Mine is now deleted and I no longer get the noise at shutdown.

I believe there is a TSB regarding the valve in the exhaust so it may be worth bringing to the dealer if you still happen to be under warranty.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

What exhaust valve? Mine is gone too...It crapped out around 81k or so and dealer would not fix it. I argued that it's failure would cause other equipment that was covered under emissions, but my time would have been better spent talking to the cinder block. This was before the TSB and of course as soon as I no longer needed(or had) it, VW covered it....

This is 100% the intake flapper motor. I can shut car off and walk over to it and listen. I can feel vibration in the motor housing as it is doing it's thing. I just don't remember it being as pronounced or taking so long. Maybe it's normal. Figured you guys would at least know what part I am probably misnaming.

I found something odd...Seems I can be much more aggressive with the methanol injection with it unplugged. Not sure why that would be. Usually if I am not at a higher enough RPM and give it too much right pedal, I can flood it, but...I am probably lugging it when it happens and should be in a gear lower. For some reason I find myself driving the manual at a much lower RPM than I did my DSG(while in manual mode). But unplugged, it seems to accept the injection better at lower rpm/high boost conditions.

Anyone have a theory on why that would be? I would think only if it was sticking in the closed position, but I would think there would be symptoms. Unplugging it has yet to throw any codes, I wonder if when it fails, it throws no code? Does that make any sense? I have had it unplugged for a several hundred miles...


UPDATE:

I did a round trip about 200 miles and had meth running pretty aggressive. I found it very hard to flood and also noticed the injection was working much better(more power). You could feel it in with increased torque steer, forget about butt dyno.

I also noticed it got progressively stronger as I drove and felt strongest just before getting home. I sometimes get pooling if I forget to shut it off a few miles from home(which they recommend). I of course forgot when I arrived at my via point, but to my surprise, no pooling...even with the injection 2x as aggressive as far as setting go. If I had it set before where I had it, I would no doubt have pooling.

Mileage was 4mpg higher than last 6 trips, which were all within 1mpg of each other(45/41). I was not going slow by any means...

Last thing I noticed was after I shut the methanol off before arriving home, was car felt MUCH stronger with meth off than it had before as I was clearing any possible pooled up meth mix.

I will hesitantly plug it back in for the next trip and see what happens, but I'm beyond confident there is something to it...

 

[mamock116]

I have gone through 4 tanks now since I completely removed the flaps. I am averaging about 1.4 mpg more. I also checked the ash load on the DPF and it is still at the same # as it was before pulling the flaps out.

 

[kjclow]

Thanks for the update.

 

[TDI_Coast2Coast]

After talking with the tuner, I believe my flaps were sticking closed, which would not allow methanol to atomize properly and literally was putting out the flame with lack of air. In a short trip today, I could not flood it with safe, yet aggressive settings...good times

Now that flaps are open, the methanol can atomize and start the cleaning the gunk that built up from the flaps being stuck...

Taking another long trip today. I will see if the trend continues. I'm pretty confident it will. Dealer would have charged me a grand replacing intake and all I need is probably another 2.5 gallons of meth to run through and I'm good.

It almost feels like I got tuned again...

 

[mamock116]

^Are you going to pull the flaps out or just leave it unplugged?

 

[TDI_Coast2Coast]

^Are you going to pull the flaps out or just leave it unplugged?

Well, I am looking into whether a 2014 intake is the same as the 2010 as far as shape and ability to fit...I thought I remember reading that it doesn't have the flaps and is not terribly expensive(I think it costs about the same as the engine cover ) So if I can sell my intake to recover some of the cost, I may go that route.

But, probably going to wind up pulling them when the HP EGR is dealt with.

Off for another test run...Top off the fuel and meth and see what happens.

Update:

Yup...something with the methanol injection and the flapper valve doesn't jive or the flapper valve was malfunctioning. Not even remotely close to the same with valve plugged in...I'm having remapped to eliminate it as well as HP EGR.

But I don't think I can be a reliable example of whether unplugging it helps performance if the valve is functioning properly.

I think mine was stuck closed or partially closed and methanol is now cleaning the side effects of that. I had the traction control kick in on a rolling start in 3rd at about 1700rpm...Don't remember that happening before.

 

[TDI_Coast2Coast]

Has anyone every had their IC ice up after unplugging the flapper valve motor?

I'm just thinking that since unplugging it stopped my methanol from pooling and allows me to inject at least 3x as much as it would before without quenching it, it therefore has the ability to hold much more liquid in the intake stream. While this condition is post intercooler, I would think it gives a glimpse into intercooler conditions...

Basically, could the flaps cause conditions to be ripe in the intercooler to collect more water than is usual? I basically can show the intake will not accept very much liquid before becoming saturated.

I've also seen some with the TSB still have it happen, perhaps the flapper valve being stuck, along with a perfect storm of conditions to have condensation in the IC(more than normal) is the culprit?

Feel free to shoot down the theory, as that is all it is...But if the intake can't accept much liquid, than the air in that intercooler must be "humid" per say. With flaps in open position, it can accept much, much, much more injection, which tells me it's "drier".

Does that make sense to anyone?

 

[gloaming]

TDI Coast2Coast: I know this isn't the place for it, but what exactly does your methanol injection do? Is it almost acting as NOS would for a gasser? or is like a gradual injection that produces more boost pressure? Also, how would it affect engine longevity?

EDI: hmm just did a search and turned up a ton of info. surprised i haven't really seen this before.

 

[TDI_Coast2Coast]

TDI Coast2Coast: I know this isn't the place for it, but what exactly does your methanol injection do? Is it almost acting as NOS would for a gasser? or is like a gradual injection that produces more boost pressure? Also, how would it affect engine longevity?

EDI: hmm just did a search and turned up a ton of info. surprised i haven't really seen this before.

I think it actually may be related to this thread in a way...Waiting for someone to interject some more knowledge on the subject(meth+flaps).

I'm still in process of learning myself, so some info may not be exactly correct or possibly totally wrong, but from what I have read/observed:

In short, it injects according to boost or EGT. I use in on Boost mostly, but EGT when towing, though both ways keep EGT's lower.

Using 50/50 mix-

It adds(now) much more power(the ability to burn fuel more efficiently and more of it). The traction control will activate in 3rd from a rolling start at 1,700rpm on a dry road(after unplugging IFV). Doesn't do that without the methanol. I'm pretty sure I can kick in TC from a rolling start in 6th now on a hill with meth on during wet conditions somewhat easily. If not 6th, no question 5th.

Helps steam clean the motor...depends on what mix you use as well. More water, more cleaning effect. You have to be careful going either way(more water/meth).

Too much injection of any mix can cause quenching and possibly major damage. Or having tank above nozzles and having it gravity feed (mine is a below nozzles). You have to test carefully and not move settings too much at one time.

If you don't lug the motor and overdue it, IMO, it helps to keep things clean, lower EGT's, add power, reduce smoke. Lower EGT's can never be a bad thing IMO.

As far as longevity...I think it is all a matter of how much you use. I don't see using it carefully having any adverse effects, though that I can't say for sure. I haven't noticed any(unless it caused flapper valve to fail...which I don't think so since problem with my meth existed upon install, but was unaware).

Being that I cannot quench it with the main nozzle, I am going to go up to a #2 and see what happens. It that doesn't quench... Going to need more suspension upgrades and something to help with torque steer(which is already tough to control when floored as well as keeping traction control from kicking in ).

You could also find a WWII pilot and ask him how much power it will add, especially at altitude...My uncle is an ex military pilot, not WWII, but when I told him I had put it in my car, he talked about WWII and how important it was...Very interesting actually.

 

[mamock116]

Just wanted to give an update. It has been a little over 10k miles since I pulled my flaps out. I went to the Tail of the Dragon over the weekend and had no issues what so ever. I beat the hell out of the car too. I got 48.4mpg on my 6.5 hour trip home. My average speed was 71mph. My previous best before the flaps was 10 hour trip to the keys in which I averaged 71mph and got 45.9 mpg.

I hooked up vcds today to my car and checked my ash load. I am at 60ml and I have 62k miles. I was at 48ml and about 52k miles when I pulled the flaps out. Removing the flaps does not seem to increase ash build up in the dpf. It seems I put about 1ml per 1k miles.

 

[ATR]

From what I gather this seems to be one of the best free mods you can do.