CR140 Flapper Valve Performance...
- Thread starter storx
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bassman5066
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2011
- Location
- Honey Brook PA
- TDI
- 2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_c_iXBWYXg&list=PL3078E4B98E69EE18
@ 1:15 minutes they talk about the use of the flapper valves in the CR TDI
They continue to talk about the effects of the flapper valves as they clearly state these help pull cool egr gasses. At 1:35. "Allows the engine to operate with a very high rate of back feed cooled exhaust gas".
That said it would appear VW uses all three to get that EG into the intake. Exhaust, intake, and flappers.
@ 1:15 minutes they talk about the use of the flapper valves in the CR TDI
They continue to talk about the effects of the flapper valves as they clearly state these help pull cool egr gasses. At 1:35. "Allows the engine to operate with a very high rate of back feed cooled exhaust gas".
That said it would appear VW uses all three to get that EG into the intake. Exhaust, intake, and flappers.
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bassman5066
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2011
- Location
- Honey Brook PA
- TDI
- 2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
It just says it allows it to run with heavy EGR, not that it is a factor in pulling it in. I would say if anything, it just causes EGR to more fully mix with intake air because of the turbulence caused by swirl.
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bassman5066
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2011
- Location
- Honey Brook PA
- TDI
- 2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
Yes, but those two restrictions (intake throttle and exhaust throttle) aren't what were talking about here. Deleting the intake swirl flappers won't change anything about how those two restrictions operate.
FWIW, my DPF delete also deleted the exhaust throttle and now that I also deleted EGR, the only function the intake throttle plays is as an anti shudder valve, which could also be deleted now that I don't have EGR.
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mamock116
Veteran Member
Anyone ever find a trick to doing this mod without pulling off the fuel rails? The last 2 screws are blocked by the fuel rails.
bassman5066
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2011
- Location
- Honey Brook PA
- TDI
- 2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
1972SS454
Veteran Member
I have bought the tool since then.... I have been busy replacing my ALH accessory bracket/timing belt....but I will check to see if it will allow me to get to the bolts without removing the fuel rail.Edit, this was an earlier post in this thread. Special tools galore. Thank VW
1972SS454
Veteran Member
Good news!!! Using special tool T40159 I was able to get access to each of the ten (10) valve cover bolts and break each one loose! In order to get access to all of them I just had to unbolt the fuel rail from the head and unbolt the coolant line and fuel return and supply lines that attach to the intake manifold. I did have to pry up on the rail just very very slightly to get good access to the bolt under the rail pressure sensor. In order to access the bolt second from top left i had to unbolt the fuel supply and return lines on top of intake manifold and also remove the small bracket that they bolt to.
It does appear that there will be enough room to wiggle the intake manifold out after unbolting the above items AND removing flap motor, unplugging glow plugs, fuel pressure sensor and fuel injectors and unbolting/ removing HP EGR and ASV.
*Edit* Added photos below. Only took pictures of bolts with tight access or that stuff had to be removed....The rest are easily accessible.
Showing fuel rail, coolant line, fuel supply and return lines and small bracket unbolted:
Small bracket for fuel return and supply lines that bolt to intake manifold:
Access to bolt under rail pressure sensor:
Access to bolt 2nd from top left (just right of bolt under rail pressure sensor):
Access to top right bolt (under rail pressure relief valve):
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mamock116
Veteran Member
good deal looking forward to this. I bought the tool a while back but didnt want to touch the rail.
1972SS454
Veteran Member
Updated Post #191 above with pictures.
I'm curious about just unplugging this for those with stage 2 tune? Did the tuner already tune them to stay open or just that it ignores the cel from that location if there is a fault.
My buddy has an off-road only stage 2 CRtdi. He unplugged the flapper and noticed better drivability when in a high gear at 1000-1300rpms. Also better off line 1st gear on normal take off. With the flappers plugged in the engine struggled and shuddered at those low rpms when under a load. He also noticed a slighter higher idle rpm about 940. No CEL thrown on the few short trips today. About a 3 mpg gain. He has never 49mpg for short trips in this cooler weather.
The ecu didn't request a downshift as early.
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I have the following:
upgraded aluminum intercooler, degrid maf, malone stage2 and dsg tune, dpf delete, rawtek dp, 3 " full exhaust, afe intake, darkside egr delete and flapper valves removed.
full gti brakes and suspension, 24mm rear sway bar, 17 eos wheels, projector headlamps from gti, gti wheel st.
I may be missing a few mods but that about covers it.
any questions fell free to ask.
mamock116
Veteran Member
I finally got around to removing the flaps. I used this guide to remove the manifold and I have the snap-on specialty tool for removing the manifold bolts.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/i...ve-removal-cjaa-cbea-audi-vw-2-0l-tdi-engine/
I left the rod in place so I would not have to worry about plugging holes. Ill post up mileage results after a week or so. So far no CEL's.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/i...ve-removal-cjaa-cbea-audi-vw-2-0l-tdi-engine/
I left the rod in place so I would not have to worry about plugging holes. Ill post up mileage results after a week or so. So far no CEL's.
mamock116
Veteran Member
It really wasnt that hard of a mod either. If you can remove the resonance dampener then you can do this mod. I am not sure if the Snap-On tool is required but it sure made things easier.
JM Popaleetus
Veteran Member
Storx, did Mark ever get back to you on fully integrating this mod into his tune?
It's an easy enough mod to do in addition to the Stage 3 CR170 swap.
It's an easy enough mod to do in addition to the Stage 3 CR170 swap.
JFettig
Vendor
I tested this out both deleted via tune and physically unplugged. I saw no difference in performance whatsoever.
I ran it with it plugged in and deleted which helped with the mid-range on the larger turbo i have.. and then i unplugged it and felt no difference, so i would have to say its correctly written out.. with no codes.
mamock116
Veteran Member
It made a very noticeable difference with starting from a stop. There is no more bog and I don't have to give it hardly any fuel to get moving. Great for the stop and go traffic on my work commute. I also believe the car feels smoother from 1k to 2k. After 2k I dont really notice a difference.
JFettig
Vendor
Still, zero difference, placebo is very effective!
Especially when Storx says mid range it made it more powerful, lol the valves are wide open mid range anyway so it made exactly ZERO difference.
Especially when Storx says mid range it made it more powerful, lol the valves are wide open mid range anyway so it made exactly ZERO difference.
I understand what your talking about Jfettig, but you can hear it in the engine sound.. its like the valve was getting held up or something around 2k rpms.. fighting between closed and open.. i found when i would go a specific speed on cruise control before i turned it off.. it would almost feel like an automatic transmission searching for a gear.. when my car is an manual...
Also, with the larger turbo.. deleting it from the tune.. got rid of the on/off difference between no power and power during spool up.. now the power onset is more gradual compared to before..
You can ask Mark yourself John, when we did a comparison on the same tune with it programmed in the tune.. we did 3rd gear pulls with it plugged in and then unplugged causing an code.. the turbo actually spooled about 200rpms sooner across most of the spool up curve, but the actual turbo starting to spool was delayed about 200rpms also.. but after that delay.. the spool up without the flapper was actually quicker.. and this was all without a change to the tune..
JFettig
Vendor
Going up a slight incline can net you 200rpm.
mamock116
Veteran Member
Meh haters gonna hate. I didnt do it for more power anyway. I just did it for more smoothness and reliability. When looking at how gunked up my flaps were I can see how those things could get clogged down the road.
DieselRacer
banned
I drove my 09 with 150000 on it with no reliability issues with the flappers, look at the dyno graphs their is no difference in power, or is the dyno lying, and the dyno results that were suppose to be downloaded on here, to show a gain, by a member, I wont name ,never provided them, funny how that works...
JFettig
Vendor
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about. - Wayne Dyer
v8 coupe
Veteran Member
I just want an intake free of the flaps and the plastic base BS!