CR140 Flapper Valve Performance...

[keaton]

before & after Dynos?


doesn't the North American BEW & BRM have something very similar to this?

 

[storx]

Thanks for doing the leg work as always Storx. If ever on the west coast or driving through Utah. Beer is on me. :thumbup::beer:

Those pictures don't make it look too tough. Did he JB weld fill the cuts or proper weld filling?

Not a problem.. i am always trying to push the crowd because i feel like tdi people are slow when it comes to pushing the hp barrier.. the only ones i ever see are the shops.. when in the honda and evo worlds.. its a collective action that pushes the market and because of that movement.. performance becomes easier and cheaper.. instead of getting stuck in the stone ages.

Have you ever looked at the thailand diesel guys.. they have those things moving and pushing the limits on 1 and 2 year old trucks and cars.. its insane what they do over there.. they have now 9 4 cylinder diesel cars/trucks in the 8 second 1/4 mile mark and 2 of those are 2011 pickups...

This diesel truck is running a 4 cylinder Dmax engine and runs a total of 3 turbochargers.. and it pulled off an 8.41 1/4 mile lastnight..

This shop sells standalone ECU's that when you convert the exchange rate is around $850 USD for a custom tune and standalone ECU

 

[Jeffbucc]

Well I do believe there are those that really are trying to push the limits. Sadly the market in the USA for non-truck diesel performance is still very small. I think that is why it seems like none are pushing it too hard. The evolved/Subaru crowd(which I am from myself) is much much larger than the TDI crowd, especially when we are talking about the common rail engine. Also, most who buy this car only want gas mileage.
Those Thailand trucks are crazy. 3 turbos sounds nuts.

 

[DZLmk6]

Well this morning I unplugged my motor that controls the flaps just to see if I would throw a CEL. I went for about a 1 hour drive. CEL popped up right when I got home. I am going to my bro's house tonight to use VAGcom and see what code it threw and shut it off. My engine is completely stock right now. Maybe Storx' CEL didn't come on from this due to his tune .

 

[mamock116]

I know its a different platform but this mod really popular on the Mazda 3's. On my Mazda it smoothed out the rpms a great deal.

 

[2STROKECORKY]

I will agree with storx on the us tuning, with a country so vast you would expect more people pushing the limits. Tuning diesels has been very big in the uk for over 10 years now,

I personally owned and built the only 220bhp ford mondeo st tdci 2.2 last year. I took it round silverstone racetrack at an event called fordfair and I was blowing away 300hp petrol cars due to the torque. It's the same with the golf, it's nearly 600nm of torque and 260hp.

These are just 2 of the cars I've done myself, I've done others in the past also.

So if I can do it allong with many MANY others in the uk then you guys can do it also.
I'm not a shop by the way, I'm just a single handed guy willing to push the boundaries myself!!!!

 

[DZLmk6]

So do the holes where the flap rod used to be between the intake runners need to be plugged?

 

[storx]

So do the holes where the flap rod used to be between the intake runners need to be plugged?

i would imagine yes, but the person who did this mod in Europe that the pictures came from.. didnt say he did.. just that he plugged the end..

 

[DZLmk6]

I will be doing this mod shortly. I'm ordering a different manifold so I can take my time with it. I can't have my car down for too long since it is my daily driver. This is the cheapest I have found the manifold available for so far http://www.ebay.com/itm/161037697540?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

 

[nikhsub1]

1stvwparts.com has it for $258...

 

[2STROKECORKY]

SURELLY you could buy one from a breakers yard? They are on eBay uk all day for $80

I would not recommend plugging the centre voids unless you can 100% guarantee that you can get each hole sealed and flush with each inlet wall.
And also guarantee that you can plug each hole without the item you plugged it with coming free and getting sent into the engine.

I did a small, air test before I decided not to plug, and didn't see the need to go to the extreme of tapping, or struggling to tap each void

 

[unclesfunnyonions]

Could you tap the spaces between and fit grub screws with thread lock? Would thread lock survive in that sort of environment?


Alex.

 

[2STROKECORKY]

The space required to get a tap in is to small.
I would imagine thread lock would survive (221). But couldn't be 100%

I wouldn't worry,

 

[TDIsyncro]

I am skeptical that there are any gains by just disconnecting the actuator. If anything, you still have the hardware in the air stream and slower velocity entering cylinder so torque would go down. There is potential to gain HP with the rod and butterfly valves removed, but only at higher boost and RPM I think. I hope there is more magic in the mod and somebody shows back to back dynos proving it does work. I will be happy to be wrong.
I would not put screws in the intake to plug holes. Sounds like a bad accident waiting to happen.

 

[TDIsyncro]

Not a problem.. i am always trying to push the crowd because i feel like tdi people are slow when it comes to pushing the hp barrier.. the only ones i ever see are the shops.. when in the honda and evo worlds.. its a collective action that pushes the market and because of that movement.. performance becomes easier and cheaper.. instead of getting stuck in the stone ages.

Have you ever looked at the thailand diesel guys.. they have those things moving and pushing the limits on 1 and 2 year old trucks and cars.. its insane what they do over there.. they have now 9 4 cylinder diesel cars/trucks in the 8 second 1/4 mile mark and 2 of those are 2011 pickups...

This diesel truck is running a 4 cylinder Dmax engine and runs a total of 3 turbochargers.. and it pulled off an 8.41 1/4 mile lastnight..

This shop sells standalone ECU's that when you convert the exchange rate is around $850 USD for a custom tune and standalone ECU

Half the trucks in thailand have open exhaust and are chipped and tricked out in some form. I agree they are doing a good job pushing the boundries. On one point in my trip I spotted an old mitsubishi 2.3L engine (same as in Canada/US in 80' dodge and ford) accept there was a big @ss turbo on it (no hood). It is inspiring to see what people do there. Thanks for the post.

 

[bassman5066]

Storx that's one of the little traits with these engines, basically as the flaps are opening and shutting at different times dependent on inlet pressure it will effect the way the car runs.

Hence me putting in my first post that removing the flap system also removed all the nigly traits aswell

Pmed

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM

 

[TheDIstance]

This interested me so much, I finally registered on the forum!
I definitely understand that anything blocking airflow in the intake manifold would reduce performance. But I have to imagine the engine is manufactured and tuned with these serving a purpose.
Removing them really has no negative effects? If so, and the numbers given are accurate, this is probably one of the best mods one can do!
Can somebody forward me the info on this? Very interested to see how this turns out

 

[storx]

i plan to do this mod and show before and after differences..
just working on getting the manifold.. so i dont ruin a good manifold

 

[2STROKECORKY]

I dug out the before and after dyno prints today, when I get chance I will upload them

 

[cooper426]

I do have a spare intake to try this out on, just need info guys!

 

[mamock116]

I am always down for free mods. If someone does a write up I will follow. This same mod did wonders on my Mazda3 so I would bet it does even better on boosted engine.

 

[reesha]

Swirl flaps dyno

Hello,

here is some interesting dyno plot regarding intake manifold flaps operation. We did some tests on Skoda Octavia RS some time ago.

You can see some very slight decrease of torque in low RPM range with completely opened flaps. This can be also problem of test - the difference is very small. But very poor torque when flaps are closed.
If your flaps work properly you should not see any difference in top RPM range (after removing).

My opinion is: if somebody sees power increase after removing intake flaps, probably, the flaps do not operate correctly. By the way, the flaps in opened position are also some kind of restriction.

You can enlarge the picture by cliking on it.

 

[unclesfunnyonions]

Nice data, shame no run with the flaps completely removed but thanks all the same.


Alex.

 

[bassman5066]

Interesting that flaps closed take the CR170 and more or less bring the power and torque down to that of a CR140. I wonder what the difference is in the tune for the flap control between the euro and NA versions....

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM

 

[Rub87]

with flaps closed the head flows about half of what a ve head flows =)

 

[storx]

well that makes sense.. cause even with the flaps open.. isnt some of them still closed?

 

[DZLmk6]

UPS man brought me something today

I got excited when I first looked at it and thought maybe the APR 2.0T Flap delete kit would fit to fill in the holes. Upon closer inspection I see they are different. If someone knew a handy machinist I'm sure it wouldn't take much to machine up some aluminum inserts.

 

[mamock116]

Can't you just pull the rod and the flaps out and slap the intake back on?

 

[DZLmk6]

Yeah it's extremely easy . I already have them out and will post pics tomorrow . It basically unbolts into two pieces and the rod easily comes out with the flaps. But It would be nice to plug up the holes, not necessary but nice.

 

[storx]

Can't you just pull the rod and the flaps out and slap the intake back on?

there be a giant hole on the end.. unless you leave the motor bolted in place to prevent a leak