CR140 Flapper Valve Performance...

[TDI<wagen>]

Call me naive as I want to ask the following, we are talking "exhaust" flapper valve right? I have seen a couple of you refer to it as "intake" ??? I went to page one and pictures are disabled....just making sure I am not making a mistake...is there an intake flapper valve as well???....All this time I been talking about my exhaust flapper valve.

And to TDI Wagen: could it be that at least before Mike Malone was just disabling exhaust flapper on their program as std operating procedure assuming some of us would run straight pipes? there is a reason I was told my stage 2 program would support the delete....

I think we all got mixed up with the number of flappers our cars have. Dammit The ones I was referring too are Intake flappers that are located in the plastic housing within Intake Manifold (see link to CR TDI engine self study psrumors posted.

torrimac: So today is the second day since I unplugged Intake Flappers and I still don't have CEL. I don't know what is going on but my thought is it will eventually come up when I go past 3K rpm. ECU should detect the signal from v157 motor at the start of the engine and above 3000 rpm since that's when the flappers are wide open. I usually shift around 2500 -2700 so perhaps I haven't gotten to the right point?

I am calling the shop that installed the tune to find out if Stage 1.5 is the same as Stage 2 that is listed on Mark's website.

 

[evolDiesel]

I don't know what is going on but my thought is it will eventually come up when I go past 3K rpm...

...Stage 1.5 is the same as Stage 2...

1. You should get the P2015 code/CEL right after you start the car. If you're not getting it, my guess is that it's programmatically ignored and you won't ever get it.

2. Isn't Stage 1.5 just a downtuned version of Stage 2 -AND- assumes all emissions related equipment is in tact and functional.

 

[danny2012]

That's how I thought 1.5 was. And I am referring to the intake also. The exhaust flapper was deleted on mine when I did the dpf. My CEL doesn't come on immediately but after I warm it up turn it off and turn it back on my light comes on. Two codes are set pending immediately though. Takes a drive cycle I assume to confirm it.

 

[Savageman69]

Pretty sure you must request the intake flappers be shut off via tune thats how my stage 3 tune appointment went anyway. I asked for it to be shut off and egt limiter raised

 

[evolDiesel]

...and egt limiter raised

Just curious, what temp did you raise the egt peak to?

 

[TDI<wagen>]

1. You should get the P2015 code/CEL right after you start the car. If you're not getting it, my guess is that it's programmatically ignored and you won't ever get it.

2. Isn't Stage 1.5 just a downtuned version of Stage 2 -AND- assumes all emissions related equipment is in tact and functional.

That's how I thought 1.5 was. And I am referring to the intake also. The exhaust flapper was deleted on mine when I did the dpf. My CEL doesn't come on immediately but after I warm it up turn it off and turn it back on my light comes on. Two codes are set pending immediately though. Takes a drive cycle I assume to confirm it.

Yup, Just got my CEL, weird part is that it didn't come right away this time. Took two engine starts.

2. Just confirmed with Andrew from Malone that Stage 1.5 is almost identical to Stage 2 in terms of power. Following up with him on upgrade to Stage 2 AND tune out Intake Flappers at the same time. I keep driving with CEL for now, making sure that P2015 is the only code I have with VCDS. I want to make sure that I can see gains in fuel economy as I already felt more response on the low end, before I get Stg 2 and tune out flappers out properly. I also monitor ash load in DPF just to see if unplugged V157 affects DPF load.

 

[TDI<wagen>]

Almost a week with unplugged V157. Here is the latest VCDS screenshot with DPF load info. I am planning to do logging until at least end of this tank and see if there is correlation between fuel economy, DPF ash load and v157 being unplugged:





Did anybody tried to just remove linkage that's connecting V157 arm with flappers and leave the motor plugged in? Wouldn't that be "poor-man" alternative to tuning it out by Mark? I guess ECU would still be able to figure out that postion of the butterfly flappers is not correct according to engine RPMs, throttle position, etc.?

I found few threads on here but mostly for repairing with either e-clips or Dieselgeek cnc machined bracket. Couldn't find one where the motor is plugged-in but not connected to the flappers.

 

[MathieuG89]

Did anybody tried to just remove linkage that's connecting V157 arm with flappers and leave the motor plugged in?

I did. It didn't work for me, instant CEL.

 

[psrumors]

Unplugged my flap valve motor a couple weeks ago. Got a check engine light on the second start. Had the ecm reprogrammed to ignore the CEL.

Didn't really notice any driving differences but did notice a smell difference, the diesel smell is much stronger when idling...I don't mind it.

Mileage went up but so far that is only one tank, though it seems to be holding true on the follow up tank. A tank that would have normally netted ~43 mpg got me 46.2 mpg.

I'll give it another couple of tanks to verify the fuel mileage and then will install the Passat intake to see if there are any benefits to removing the valves completely.

 

[evolDiesel]

Great post. 3mpg is nothing to ignore. Interesting on the diesel smell.

 

[Perry01]

My ECU should arrive back from AARodriguez today with a stage 2 tune plus intake flapper delete. It would be nice to see a 3 mpg increase.
.

 

[evolDiesel]

Good to know

 

[radoroc]

After leaving it unplugged for a few weeks and driving about 1200km, I plugged it back in and I am happier. I didn't like the loss of low end torque and it seemed to hesitate in 5th and 6th on low rpm's. I didn't get any better mileage, the only thing I noticed was a bit smoother starting off in 1st.

 

[evolDiesel]

After leaving it unplugged for a few weeks and driving about 1200km, I plugged it back in and I am happier....

... I plugged it back in ...

Are you guys both full Stage 2 or higher?

 

[radoroc]

It has been warm here, I am stage 2 with dpf delete(offroad only).

 

[evolDiesel]

Hmmmm.... now I'm thinking about leaving it on and engaged for Stage 2.

Does Malone not call it Stage 1.5 anymore (with DPF still installed)? It was much less confusing that way.

 

[TDI<wagen>]

Nope, they have Stage 2 now only on their website. I asked Malone Tuning about it and they said that Stage 1.5 is just a tad smaller HP and TQ numbers than Stage 2 (with DPF still on).

I had mine unplugged for one tank now. Got CEL on the second start. At the beginning I could say it was a little faster off of the line, but it either could've been my perception or ECM tuned it quickly out. I am going to leave it unplugged for another tank and see what happens. Yes, mileage went up but may be 2mpg not more. I am on Stage 1.5 with DPF on. Though I am still running in 235/45/17 winters so may be that's why I got only ~850km/tank. Picking up summer today hehe


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[PhunkFX]

So are people still doing the flapper hardware delete here, or just leaving it in there and requesting the flapper function be killed in a tune?

What are the quantitative results from a 30 page posting?

 

[evolDiesel]

What are the quantitative results from a 30 page posting?

I don't think anyone has actually done back-to-back dynos to see of there's any power/torque change across the RPM band. I decided to leave mine alone when I did Stage 2. I already instated the Dieselgeek kit.

 

[bengone1]

Hey guys! I am producing runner flap delete plates. Check out the vendor section http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=461674. So far two local DPF delete cars are running them and reporting better throttle response. One is a full on gtb2260vk and the other is a stock turbo. I have shipped a set to some guy on Fb to give a go and a set should be in the hands of a Richmond TDi enthusiast for unbiased opinions soon. Enjoy the pics! Please don't PM me, it makes it hard to track conversations. Use my email in the signature.

 

[ATR]

Hey guys! I am producing runner flap delete plates. Check out the vendor section. So far two local DPF delete cars are running them and reporting better throttle response. One is a full on gtb2260vk and the other is a stock turbo. I have shipped a set to some guy on Fb to give a go and a set should be in the hands of a Richmond TDi enthusiast for unbiased opinions soon. Enjoy the pics!

http://s402.photobucket.com/user/Be...s/IMG_20160319_220418290_zpsuo1fsyvo.jpg.html

http://s402.photobucket.com/user/Be...oads/IMG_20160421_122249_zpsgkt9b7xn.jpg.html

NIIIIIIIICE!!!!

I've been wondering when someone with the know-how would do for the TDIs what APR did for the TFSI engines.

If I keep my car after dieselgate I'll be looking you up for sure

 

[YukonLT]

Sweet, definitely interested

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

I recently deleted my flaps and learned VW doesnt sell the seal between the cast aluminum section and black, plastic flapper body.

What have y'all been doing about this? Anybody found a replacent or are y'all reusing it?

 

[madcowintucson]

I unplugged my flapper motor last night just to see if I could tell any difference. It is hard to say at part load but the car did seem more powerful when I got on it. This could also be a result of the GDE beta tune so I have no way to tell without doing back to back with any without motor connected. One thing I did notice today was my fuel economy numbers are reading much much higher than normal. i drove to get a cup of coffee at the mcdonalds i normally go to and I am reading 46 mpgs with ac on whereas I normally am in the low 30's, maybe 30 to 33 with ac on in the daytime.

How can this be accounted for? I have no idea myself but I will be driving more today for Lyft and I will see if it drops. If the flaps are closed below 3000 rpms the I would never feel any difference because i rarely drive above 3000 rpms when i am city driving. I do know the new high output vw 2.0 diesel deletes the flaps completely. According to vw, the flaps are a restriction to achieve the power output they are seeking. If VW *chokes* meets the emissions without the valves then I think it is ok to delete them. What I will do is physically remove all of them and the rod, leave the motor connected as usual and just forget about it. That is if and only if i have some sort of improvement and it will not shorten the life of the DPf. Also buying the inserts is a wise idea.

 

[xjay1337]

I've had runner flap delete for 18 months and had no issues.

 

[named tintin]

There's several maps for the flapper, If you have EGR off, the flapper is still in function but run from a map that keeps it always open.

 

[bengone1]

I recently deleted my flaps and learned VW doesnt sell the seal between the cast aluminum section and black, plastic flapper body.

What have y'all been doing about this? Anybody found a replacent or are y'all reusing it?

The rubber seals should be reuseable.

 

[D-Cup]

After reading all 30pages and considering it's been over a year, I'm wondering if anyone has any more definitive measureable data on this topic.
I have a 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition with 156k miles, completely stock (save for dieselgeek short shifter that I put on about 153k).
My CEL has been on for maybe 6months. When it first came on I had my mechanic run his (non-VW) computer and it was throwing codes for either the intake flap sensor, motor, or the flap itself - he couldn't tell which, he said it would take a VW computer to be more specific.
Anyway, it was driving fine and couldn't notice a difference at all, so I put it on the back burner until now. For the last few days I've noticed a rougher/louder idle with a little more knocking than usual. Acceleration has been a little inconsistent also - usually fine, occasionally lagging.
I was reading a DIY on cleaning out the intake manifold and EGR for a mk4 that I recently bought that has about 214k miles and thought, hey, I wonder if this code will clear up if I just clean out the manifold?
Since I will be removing the intake manifold to clean out, I'm wondering if I should actually pull the flaps or just clean out and leave them in.
I usually go by the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach.
So, is here any actual benefit to be had by removing flaps considering everything else is stock?
Have there been any unforeseen negative consequences encountered by anyone who has pulled flaps?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Mrrogers1]

After reading all 30pages and considering it's been over a year, I'm wondering if anyone has any more definitive measureable data on this topic.
I have a 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition with 156k miles, completely stock (save for dieselgeek short shifter that I put on about 153k).
My CEL has been on for maybe 6months. When it first came on I had my mechanic run his (non-VW) computer and it was throwing codes for either the intake flap sensor, motor, or the flap itself - he couldn't tell which, he said it would take a VW computer to be more specific.
Anyway, it was driving fine and couldn't notice a difference at all, so I put it on the back burner until now. For the last few days I've noticed a rougher/louder idle with a little more knocking than usual. Acceleration has been a little inconsistent also - usually fine, occasionally lagging.
I was reading a DIY on cleaning out the intake manifold and EGR for a mk4 that I recently bought that has about 214k miles and thought, hey, I wonder if this code will clear up if I just clean out the manifold?
Since I will be removing the intake manifold to clean out, I'm wondering if I should actually pull the flaps or just clean out and leave them in.
I usually go by the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach.
So, is here any actual benefit to be had by removing flaps considering everything else is stock?
Have there been any unforeseen negative consequences encountered by anyone who has pulled flaps?
Thanks in advance.

You should have VW run codes on it especially if it's stock (ie has all cheating emissions intact) and see what is really going on. If it's emission related, they should fix with current parts and then will come back around and fix again with updated parts when it's time.

If you just want to remove the flap and tune out the MIL, you might as well remove the DPF (*if it's an off road car of course) and emissions parts. The if the flap is gone, regens won't work right so your DPF could simply be clogged from it not working this long. With that number of miles, I'd be surprised if you DON'T have soot on your tailpipe which is a good sign that the DPF is failing.

 

[D-Cup]

Oh yeah, that was another thing. I've noticed regens happening more frequently, but that could easily be because my daily commute has changed significantly. (Went from 30miles of highway each way to 14miles of 50/50 city/highway by distance, but it's closer to 75/25 city/highway by time.)

Forgot in original post:
99.99 percent of my driving is done between 1700-2400rpm, and I'm only getting 39-41mpg. I'm running 225/40R18 tires on the Cup wheels. I keep them at 40psi because I get about 1mpg better compared to the recommended 38psi, but only when my driving was mostly highway. I keep reading about people getting 45-47mpg so I can only assume I've been driving my car wrong this whole time. (Bought the car in June of 2011 with 7400miles on it.)
I plan on keeping the car forever, I love it and have had zero problems with it.
I was planning on waiting until the emissions fix gets issued and then make mods/tunes after that so I only have to do it once.


My tailpipe is as clean as the day I got the car, so DPF must be doing ok.
I'll check the vagcom list and go from there.
Thanks again.