CR140 Flapper Valve Performance...

evolDiesel

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And it wouldn't be of use to me since I plan on removing the whole assembly anyway.
Which direction would you go? Seems likes there's a couple options for physically removing the butterfly valves. I wish the fuel rail wasn't part of the removal process.
 

BuzzKen

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Yeah, I'm curious what he has to say. All he told me was that you have to request it but didn't comment on what effect it would have.

Intake manifold flaps are purely for nox emissions. Open and disabled is what you are looking for.
 

evolDiesel

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BuzzKen - do you think there is much difference from physically removing the flappers or just setting them open programmatically, I.e. tune them out and just leave the v157 in the open position all the time?
 

BuzzKen

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BuzzKen - do you think there is much difference from physically removing the flappers or just setting them open programmatically, I.e. tune them out and just leave the v157 in the open position all the time?

Just set in the open position.
 

radoroc

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I unplugged mine yesterday and noticed a lack of low end torque, but today it appears to be normal again. It adapted quickly. The lag starting off is mostly gone now and it seems to shift faster as well, l was getting a lot of rev hang in manual mode. Driveability is definitely better, not sure about mpg yet.
 

mz1

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I have not gone through the whole 27 pages of this thread yet but I think this will help get people informed about the Flapper Valve removal effect. I am Malone Stage 2 and use to complain a lot around here about how my mpg's were still below average no matter what I did to baby the car. After removing the flapper valved I saw a 4-6 mpg improvement and I am very happy. I honestly did not feel any power improvement but I am content to finally be making over 42 mpg on the Highway, so it's all good.
 

evolDiesel

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mz1;4775870I am Malone Stage 2 and ...[/QUOTE said:
Did you request Malone to disable the v157 motor [programmatically] when he did your ecu tune?
 

mz1

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Did you request Malone to disable the v157 motor [programmatically] when he did your ecu tune?
I don't recall doing that when ordering the tune, would you please explain why of the question and how would this affect my performance?
 

evolDiesel

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I still don't fully understand the impact of either having or not having the flapper valves as a part of our intake systems and the jury is still out in terms of hard physical evidence, be it dyno charts and accurate fuel economy measurements. Buzzken may have some intelligent input on the subject. But what I'm thinking in your case, specifically, is that there is a positive benefit to disabling them whether it be mechanically or programmatically and by not requesting it from Malone at the time of the tune, your tune wouldn't have gotten it. Later when you physically unplugged the v157, you got to the same result as programmatically disabling the flappers (they default open in the default motor position), and you are seeing at least an improvement in fuel economy.

Curious here.... are you seeing a CEL after unplugging the v157? I bet Stage 2 tune ignores all the CEL codes related to it.

Also, I still don't understand how the lack of "turbulence" in our intake results in claims of higher mpg, more power, faster spooling, etc.
 

Slou92

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I'm also wondering if the CEL comes on if the motor is unhooked on a tuned engine. I'd be willing to experiment if no one knows. As long as it doesn't go into limp mode.
 

evolDiesel

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I don't think it will. I ran for a couple months with a P2015CEL from the motor being out of range. No issues other than the CEL itself.
 

ATR

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I'm thinking that simply disabling them is not quite enough to notice a real difference. If you remove the flappers entirely I think that's where you're really going to see a difference.
 

evolDiesel

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My guess is flappers open is negligible restriction versus flappers removed from the shaft. Just a guess though.
 

ATR

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I've heard very positive results from folks that completely remove the flaps. I think some of those folks posted results earlier in this thread. They noted a nice boost in power and mileage iirc...
There's a good picture of the flaps at my turbo diesel (bottom of the page):
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/i...ve-removal-cjaa-cbea-audi-vw-2-0l-tdi-engine/
It may not look like much but I'll bet there's a bit of tubulance being introduced and maybe even a little bit of a restriction.
 
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radoroc

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I'm also wondering if the CEL comes on if the motor is unhooked on a tuned engine. I'd be willing to experiment if no one knows. As long as it doesn't go into limp mode.
I have a cel with it unplugged and I am stage 2. No problems so far.
 

mz1

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Later when you physically unplugged the v157, you got to the same result as programmatically disabling the flappers (they default open in the default motor position), and you are seeing at least an improvement in fuel economy.

Curious here.... are you seeing a CEL after unplugging the v157? I bet Stage 2 tune ignores all the CEL codes related to it.
Yes I did get fuel economy benefits indeed, I have done 4 complete fuel tanks with manual calculations and my mpg's went up 3-6 miles ( and by the way I am running 18" wheels, otherwise I think I could see even higher mpg's for sure)

No CEL whatsoever......(...thanks Malone stage 2 coding :) )
 
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evolDiesel

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Hard to argue with a 3-6mpg improvement. Something is happening here.
 

danny2012

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Unless its a new tune Malone is doing since I got mine in Dec. I have stage 2 and my CEL still comes on when I unplug mine. IIRC you have to ask Malone to tune it out.
 

mz1

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No I have been flashed for over a year now. The people who sold me the down pipe or DPF delete kit (they did not do the ECU flash by the way) told me that I should not get a CEL, as Malone stage II was safe for flapper and cat removal.
 

Slou92

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I have stage 2 and no dPF. I got a check engine light when I disconnected mine. I drove about 10 miles no problem but the light came on after I started the engine again.

Definite improvement with it unplugged though. I'm going to contact someone and get a price quote for getting that tuned out.
 

mz1

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The big mistery to me is that I felt no performance improvement, improved my mpg's and got no CEL, while others like you, got a CEL, got performance improvement and .....did you gain mpg's ????
 

TDI<wagen>

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From what I could gather in the previous pages, it seems that you specifically need to request Intake Flappers tuned out by Mark even if you are Stage 2. I unplugged v157 motor and got the CEL almost immediately. I didn't have a chance to performance as I drove only for a few days.
 

mz1

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Call me naive as I want to ask the following, we are talking "exhaust" flapper valve right? I have seen a couple of you refer to it as "intake" ??? I went to page one and pictures are disabled....just making sure I am not making a mistake...is there an intake flapper valve as well???....All this time I been talking about my exhaust flapper valve.

And to TDI Wagen: could it be that at least before Mike Malone was just disabling exhaust flapper on their program as std operating procedure assuming some of us would run straight pipes? there is a reason I was told my stage 2 program would support the delete....
 

torrimac

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There is a butterfly flapper valve in the intake. here is a pic

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/a6/engine/intake-swirl-flap-valve.jpg

There is also an exhaust flapper valve that is used for EGR. Here is an image of it in line in the exhaust. Mid way back on the car.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/exhaust-valve-vw.jpg

The idea here is that if you disable or remove the intake flappers you will get better low end torque and fuel mileage. The flaps close at low RPM's to do some funky emissions stuff. The effectively chokes our engines off. Turning them off or un-plugging them will just leave them open all the time but will throw a CEL unless you have it tuned out.
 

psrumors

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Call me naive as I want to ask the following, we are talking "exhaust" flapper valve right? I have seen a couple of you refer to it as "intake" ??? I went to page one and pictures are disabled....just making sure I am not making a mistake...is there an intake flapper valve as well???....All this time I been talking about my exhaust flapper valve.

And to TDI Wagen: could it be that at least before Mike Malone was just disabling exhaust flapper on their program as std operating procedure assuming some of us would run straight pipes? there is a reason I was told my stage 2 program would support the delete....
Intake flappers - look here, page 12

http://www.natef.org/natef/media/natefmedia/vw files/2-0-tdi-ssp.pdf
 
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