CR140 Flapper Valve Performance...

[evolDiesel]

Been working on the P2015 kit with Jim from DieselGeek and it works! The local VW dealer quoted me $540 but when I finally took it in last Thursday they called and said it would be $880! I said "FxCK THAT!" in a professional sort of way, returned the 2015 loaner when I got off work, picked up my car which was now all dealership clean and waxed lol; no work done and no $ exchanged. Man, it was a good thing. $65 later and the v157 is articulating; no CEL, no P2015!

I'm not sure if I'll have Malone tune it out. The one dyno chart that was posted in this thread wasn't very convincing. I can always just unplug the v157 and see if I feel a difference after I've gotten used to Stage 2 again. Or I could just dyno. We have a local shop that is 3 pulls for $65 and I'll be going at least twice for my build thread.

 

[Ms9603]

I finally had the guts to remove the flaps and left the rod in place. The car drives much smoother. So far I am getting great mileage, the last tank was 45.7! My ash load is 47 ml/mg (cannot remember the measurement) with 60k miles. Also no check engine light after fixing a broken glow plug.

 

[rcracer]

I finally had the guts to remove the flaps and left the rod in place. The car drives much smoother. So far I am getting great mileage, the last tank was 45.7! My ash load is 47 ml/mg (cannot remember the measurement) with 60k miles. Also no check engine light after fixing a broken glow plug.

Yours tuned?

 

[ATR]

I finally had the guts to remove the flaps and left the rod in place. The car drives much smoother. So far I am getting great mileage, the last tank was 45.7! My ash load is 47 ml/mg (cannot remember the measurement) with 60k miles. Also no check engine light after fixing a broken glow plug.

What kind of mileage were you able to get before the delete?

 

[rix337]

Been working on the P2015 kit with Jim from DieselGeek and it works! The local VW dealer quoted me $540 but when I finally took it in last Thursday they called and said it would be $880! I said "FxCK THAT!" in a professional sort of way, returned the 2015 loaner when I got off work, picked up my car which was now all dealership clean and waxed lol; no work done and no $ exchanged. Man, it was a good thing. $65 later and the v157 is articulating; no CEL, no P2015!

I'm not sure if I'll have Malone tune it out. The one dyno chart that was posted in this thread wasn't very convincing. I can always just unplug the v157 and see if I feel a difference after I've gotten used to Stage 2 again. Or I could just dyno. We have a local shop that is 3 pulls for $65 and I'll be going at least twice for my build thread.

Check to make sure that shop can do diesel dynos. The shop next to Andrew Rodriguez place cannot because of the rpm pickup. I did the Malone tune and asked them to do the v157 delete file while they did it. I have the dpf delete and the car is great. I do not have dyno results, but my mileage is great, especially on long highway trips. I got 56 going from Atlanta to Chicago, and 55 on the way back with 778 miles on that tank in my 09 Jetta with 14 gallons to fill up to the neck. Car feels confident pulling into traffic and really pulls when you ask it to. I love it more now than when I bought it.

 

[MathieuG89]

I unmounted the flapper motor next to the manifold this afternoon. I took it apart and removed the gear inside that actuate the arm opening/closing the flapper valves. Mounted everything back up as it originally was (well I think I did) and am getting fault codes. I tried erasing them but they come right back up.

 

[Killabee228]

Did you reattach the arm to the valves?
I did the same thing and have no issues.

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[MathieuG89]

Did you reattach the arm to the valves?
I did the same thing and have no issues.

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I did at first and the check engine would stay on even if I cleared it. Now I unhooked the arm and it gives me the same code albeit only when I start the car. I can clear the code and it won't come back on until I shut down the engine and restart it.

 

[evolDiesel]

$65 P2015 kit from DieselGeek fixed mine. You'll need to make sure the arm and linkages are still intact for the position sensor to not send a cel/mil.

 

[MathieuG89]

$65 P2015 kit from DieselGeek fixed mine. You'll need to make sure the arm and linkages are still intact for the position sensor to not send a cel/mil.

Are there any way I could get rid of the whole motor/linkage assembly and not have a cel come on? Could it be coded through vcds or something?

 

[evolDiesel]

Not sure about vagcom (I bet you could code it out) but I did get confirmation that Malone tunes it out upon request (which I'll be doing when I get around to installing stage 2).

 

[MathieuG89]

Not sure about vagcom (I bet you could code it out) but I did get confirmation that Malone tunes it out upon request (which I'll be doing when I get around to installing stage 2).

I just gave a phone call to the shop that tuned my car and they had absolutely no idea what I was talking about. The guy kept asking if I was talking about the EGR valve or the ASV. I tried my best to explain where the motor was located and what it did but to no avail. He asked me to send an email so I did. I also sent several pictures. Hopefully Malone does tune that away. I don't want to put that thing back on!

 

[TDI_Coast2Coast]

OK, so... assuming you are Stage 2, no DPF, no EGR - do you have Malone tune out the V157 motor? I just talked to Andrew over there and he said it's an option you request before getting the tune built for your ECU. I've read through this entire thread and it seems like most of you are happier with no butterfly valves but then there's the other side saying "where are the dyno results - what difference is this really making?".

The difference is large enough to not need a dyno on a tuned car IMO. But in my case, flaps were not functioning properly. If they were, difference would not have been as noticeable. But it made enormous difference for me. I can testify that it increased airflow using the methanol injection. Unplugged allows 4x+ the injection before quenching. Plus, if you take your max CFM plugged in and compare it with it unplugged, you should see noticeable difference.

If you have tune, just make sure you tell Mark you have motor unplugged, and he will eliminate the CEL. I am pretty sure he tunes it out, but in my case, even tuned out, it was problematic. I think in the tune it tells the flaps to stay open, but relies on accurate position sensor info. There is a return spring that you can see externally, that returns flaps to fully open if power is removed. I believe in my case, the sensors were faulty, so removing power was necessary. Malone just tuned it to ignore unplugged motor.

Problem free since.

 

[Killabee228]

I did at first and the check engine would stay on even if I cleared it. Now I unhooked the arm and it gives me the same code albeit only when I start the car. I can clear the code and it won't come back on until I shut down the engine and restart it.

Did you remember the spring???


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[evolDiesel]

There is a return spring that you can see externally, that returns flaps to fully open if power is removed.

In the (3) v157 motors I tried, the motor defaults to open valves. So, if you unplug your motor cable you will have open valves. It's only when the motor runs the dogbone forward that you get some %-closed valves and the alleged "swirl" effects. I have a hard time (myself) believing that open valves and no valves at all (remove them) would have drastically different effects on performance.

 

[TDI_Coast2Coast]

In the (3) v157 motors I tried, the motor defaults to open valves. So, if you unplug your motor cable you will have open valves. It's only when the motor runs the dogbone forward that you get some %-closed valves and the alleged "swirl" effects. I have a hard time (myself) believing that open valves and no valves at all (remove them) would have drastically different effects on performance.

My motor, for whatever reason, would not default to open via the motor, even tuned to default open. Only unplugging. Only reason I can think of is the position sensors. No power, no sensors or motor function. In a properly functioning intake, yes, it should default via the motor. I am pretty sure my intake was fouled for a long time, but for whatever reason, no engine light.

Perhaps that is not a return spring I see, but it looks to be. Power removed, and it assures flaps are open. Unless that spring has another function.

 

[evolDiesel]

Unless that spring has another function.

That spring is useless. Honestly, I don't know why the linkage assembly requires it. It's causing tension on the linkage to return to the full-open position, but the v157 already does that! Seriously, if you pull the v157 and move the arm with your hand you can see how hard it is to not be in the default full-open position.

 

[MathieuG89]

Did you remember the spring???


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I did. But it was a tiny bit sideway when I mounted everything back together.

 

[Killabee228]

Hmm


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[evolDiesel]

I did. But it was a tiny bit sideway when I mounted everything back together.

Check the DieselGeek P2015 product webpage. The arm has to be in just the right "full-open" position for the position sensor to have the right value. If you have vagcom you can run a test or start your car and turn it off to see if it cycles forward (some %-shut valves) and back (open valves).

 

[MathieuG89]

I really didn't want to spend $64.00 on a repair bracket from Diesel Geek and the shop where I had my car tuned were asking $225.00 + taxes to tune it out (what a ripoff!). I fixed the CEL for less than $0.25 and it took about 10 minutes! The CEL codes I had were the following: P2004, P2015 and P2016. From what I read those codes are triggered when the motor arm extends it's range of motion. Notice how the motor arm in my hand is overextended compared to a "fixed" motor arm on the picture behind?

How did I fix mine without Diesel Geek's repair bracket? With a pair of pliers and a cheap metal hook!

I bent the piece and inserted it into the main gear gap to keep it from going back too far (very poor VW design by the way...).

And here's how the motor arm looks on the outside. Exactly like the one on the picture behind.

 

[evolDiesel]

That's clever. Is it a picture hanger? Will be interesting to see if it can withstand the environment.

 

[TDI<wagen>]

I hope that hook won't come out and get the cog stuck in half open position

The flappers are opened when the car starts or while in emergency mode. The flappers are closed when engine is idling and will fully open at 3000+ rpm. I think someone mentioned that already here but this is a direct quote from CJAA/CBEA engine self-study guide.

I think the substantial increase in performance/decrease in fuel consumption after removing these flappers would be only felt by those who have malone Stg 2 and DPF deleted. Otherwise, I think it's almost placebo effect for guys like me - with Stage 1.5 and all the emissions equipment still on-board. Correct me if I am wrong.

Slightly off-topic How do you guys get 47+ mpg on CR TDI??? Is this after removing DPF + flappers delete?? That's 5L/100km! I barely can maintain 5.6L/100km with mixed city/highway driving. ok, mostly city i guess but still... That's a drastic increase in fuel economy

 

[Killabee228]

Yes. If I'm on a flat part of the interstate I can get mid 50's going 80. Usually my average is 38 to 42.


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[Perry01]

OK, so... assuming you are Stage 2, no DPF, no EGR - do you have Malone tune out the V157 motor? I just talked to Andrew over there and he said it's an option you request before getting the tune built for your ECU".

I'm currently on the waiting list for the DSG tool from Andrew. After my DSG is tuned, my ECU gets shipped. Then the DPF and EGR delete. Do you think I should talk to Andrew about tuning out the intake manifold flapper?
.

 

[evolDiesel]

Yeah, I'm curious what he has to say. All he told me was that you have to request it but didn't comment on what effect it would have.

 

[MathieuG89]

Well, I'm back to square one. The CEL came back and I have no idea why.

 

[sprinks]

Same code? I'd guess the very malleable picture hanger fix may have bent on itself.

 

[evolDiesel]

Well, I'm back to square one. The CEL came back and I have no idea why.

Same code? I'd guess the very malleable picture hanger fix may have bent on itself.

If it were heat treated spring steel you might get by. Just pony up the $65 for DieselGeek, you cheap bastard ! Jim and those guys are the best. You won't be disappointed!

 

[MathieuG89]

If it were heat treated spring steel you might get by. Just pony up the $65 for DieselGeek, you cheap bastard ! Jim and those guys are the best. You won't be disappointed!

I have no doubt about the quality of their products but $64.00 US is about $80.00 CAD and that is before shipping fees and import duty And it wouldn't be of use to me since I plan on removing the whole assembly anyway.