CR engine HPFP analysis

[oilhammer]

And since my last post.... another blown rear main seal.



I'll tell ya, these are becoming a weekly thing. This one is an easier one, a 2009 Eos w/ automatic. So it is FWD/DSG, the easiest of all the transmissions bolted to this junk engine to remove. Oh, and its water pump is leaking too. Has not even made it to 100k miles.

 

[ATR]

And since my last post.... another blown rear main seal.

I'll tell ya, these are becoming a weekly thing. This one is an easier one, a 2009 Eos w/ automatic. So it is FWD/DSG, the easiest of all the transmissions bolted to this junk engine to remove. Oh, and its water pump is leaking too. Has not even made it to 100k miles.

That 2nd generation TSI is a bear.

The 3rd generation ea888 (2015+) seems to have fixed most of the major issues that plagued previous years from what I've seen so far.

 

[oilhammer]

How do you know this? Not trying to disagree, just curious if there have actually been changes that address this. I know the later engines' valve cover is different, so the pressure regulator breather thingy that always fails on the older design is different. But only time will tell if that has been an improvement, unless there is some specific training material on those newer versions that specifically makes mention of this I will remain a "hopeful skeptic" on that front.

Otherwise, it is hard to say "they fixed it!" when the newer engines are still, well, new. I mean, the POS CCTA engine and its derivatives didn't exactly start breaking right away in 2008 either. But now, in 2017, they are a VERY well known problem child, depleting the bank accounts of a frightful many of their owners. I mean, seriously, the 2008-2011 cars (Tiguan, CC, B6 Passat, GTI, GLI, Eos, Audi A4, Q5, etc.) that come through our shop are all plagued with the same problems. Volkswagen CERTAINLY knows about this, but....

 

[nhdude]

Thanks, Oilhammer, for the heads-up on the Tsi engines. Had thought about on of these to replace my TDi but really do not need an expensive headache! If the TDi didn't have the HPFP issue and emissions equipment issues (had to replace cracked DPF at 82K) I would probably keep it. But, at 106K now, it will potentially become a money pit for which I am currently ill equipped to deal. Looking at Volvos, BMWs, and Japanese stuff now. Going to miss the JSW though!

 

[ATR]

How do you know this? Not trying to disagree, just curious if there have actually been changes that address this. I know the later engines' valve cover is different, so the pressure regulator breather thingy that always fails on the older design is different. But only time will tell if that has been an improvement, unless there is some specific training material on those newer versions that specifically makes mention of this I will remain a "hopeful skeptic" on that front.
Otherwise, it is hard to say "they fixed it!" when the newer engines are still, well, new. I mean, the POS CCTA engine and its derivatives didn't exactly start breaking right away in 2008 either. But now, in 2017, they are a VERY well known problem child, depleting the bank accounts of a frightful many of their owners. I mean, seriously, the 2008-2011 cars (Tiguan, CC, B6 Passat, GTI, GLI, Eos, Audi A4, Q5, etc.) that come through our shop are all plagued with the same problems. Volkswagen CERTAINLY knows about this, but....

Here's a thread about the 3rd generation ea888:
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26886

The mk7 has been in production since 2012 in Europe. I haven't seen or heard of any major common issues (other than the early turbo and cam shaft failures)... At least not yet. I'm sure that time will tell how it shapes up.

 

[ATR]

Here's a thread about the 3rd generation ea888:
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26886
The mk7 has been in production since 2012 in Europe. I haven't seen or heard of any major common issues (other than the early turbo and cam shaft failures)... At least not yet. I'm sure that time will tell how it shapes up.

Here's another thread on the weak points of the mk7:

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27257

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, I like the A7s. Too bad no diesel after 2015, so I'll likely never own one.

 

[texsize]

My HPFP failure

2013 Jetta TDI
My HPFP self destructed on 09/27/16.
Odometer was 100398.

Driving on freeway in near bumper to bumper traffic (405 in L.A.) Glow Plug light and Check Engine light came on. Car went into limp mode and pulled to shoulder within 30 sec.
Car was re-started twice for less than 1 minute each time. Both times car ran ok.

I drive my Jetta with a Bluetooth device plugged into the ODB port and the Torque app running. Torque app gave me an error code and I no longer remember the exact code but I think it translated into low pressure on the CR. I knew what it meant and I got that sinking feeling.

I had car towed to the closest VW dealer and they confirmed my worst fear.

OF COURSE they claimed it was contaminated fuel. Contrary to popular belief I am not stupid and have never put Gas in my car. Plus I had driven 300 miles since the last fill up.

I make it a point to always fill up at Chevron but therein lays a story that could make their claim plausible. The last two fill ups were made at a Chevron station that is right around the corner from me. This station only recently started selling diesel fuel. Could a tanker truck driver mistakenly put gas in a newly installed diesel tank? Could the new diesel tank have had some contamination in it to begin with?

The good news in all of this is my insurance paid all but $500. I never tried to prove the dealership lied nor did I try to prove that the gas station was selling contaminated fuel.
If any of you out there want more detailed info … like the name of the dealership PM me.
Texsize.

 

[D-Cup]

I've been skimming through these pages of thread and I didnt see any HPFP failures in cars over 120k miles.
I currently over 157k in my 2010 Jetta. Safe to say I got on of the good ones?
I've been thinking maybe it was a bad batch (or 2 or more) of raw materials going into HPFP?
I read through the thread of swapping out for CP3 and somwhere in between I saw that someone went to his second timing belt service at 240k miles on his original HPFP and swapped out for CP3 at that time (I assume since he was already under the hood).
Hoping for that type of luck, but keeping an eye out.
Has anyone had their HPFP fail beyond 150k?

 

[oilhammer]

The last two HPFP failures (of now the six total I have EVER seen) were both at 160k miles, both were 2014 Sportwagons, from the same medical courier fleet.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

2013 Jetta TDI
My HPFP self destructed on 09/27/16.
Odometer was 100398.

Driving on freeway in near bumper to bumper traffic (405 in L.A.) Glow Plug light and Check Engine light came on. Car went into limp mode and pulled to shoulder within 30 sec.
Car was re-started twice for less than 1 minute each time. Both times car ran ok.

I drive my Jetta with a Bluetooth device plugged into the ODB port and the Torque app running. Torque app gave me an error code and I no longer remember the exact code but I think it translated into low pressure on the CR. I knew what it meant and I got that sinking feeling.

I had car towed to the closest VW dealer and they confirmed my worst fear.

OF COURSE they claimed it was contaminated fuel. Contrary to popular belief I am not stupid and have never put Gas in my car. Plus I had driven 300 miles since the last fill up.

I make it a point to always fill up at Chevron but therein lays a story that could make their claim plausible. The last two fill ups were made at a Chevron station that is right around the corner from me. This station only recently started selling diesel fuel. Could a tanker truck driver mistakenly put gas in a newly installed diesel tank? Could the new diesel tank have had some contamination in it to begin with?

The good news in all of this is my insurance paid all but $500. I never tried to prove the dealership lied nor did I try to prove that the gas station was selling contaminated fuel.
If any of you out there want more detailed info … like the name of the dealership PM me.
Texsize.

There was a service station in Ottawa that did the opposite: the tanker delivering diesel put it into the gasoline storage tank. Multiple customers had their cars stall, and the station had to reimburse them to have their tanks flushed and fuel systems serviced.

So yes that kind of mistake can and does happen. Glad your insurance picked up almost all of the tab.

 

[vincej]

Timing belt change coming due. Car has almost 160k kms. Where can I get a filter kit or CP3 pump? Is the CP3 pump a good way to go? The 2micron site doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

[ksing44]

This site sells the CP3 pump and other parts and instructions you need to complete the installation.

CP3 Kit and directions

 

[kweisel]

Timing belt change coming due. Car has almost 160k kms. Where can I get a filter kit or CP3 pump? Is the CP3 pump a good way to go? The 2micron site doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

last i had contacted him was early fall 2016, he was concerned about D-GATE etc; his message box is full

 

[vito3223]

I was wondering if the HPFP is essentially expected to fail at or around 130k ?

I have a 2014 Jetta, and most of the posts are about the 2009 to 2012 vehicles.

I have found a couple of threads, but none have a failure distribution based on manufacturing year. There is some mention of design improvements with regards to the pump, but nothing definitive.

It looks like most people that had a 2010 to 2014 just ended up trading them in.

 

[oilhammer]

Two of the five I have ever seen bad (which is a very low total number) were 2014s, both with 160k miles on them, both owned by the same fleet company.

 

[vito3223]

Two of the five I have ever seen bad (which is a very low total number) were 2014s, both with 160k miles on them, both owned by the same fleet company.

Thanks for the reply! 2/5 that's 40%, and to get so many in a small sample size indicates that this is a very real and prevalent issue.

 

[oilhammer]

Seems pretty rare to me. I can rattle off a half dozen other things I have seen WAY more often. 5 cars out of.... shoot, no idea how many hundred of CR TDIs I used to see regularly. Mostly gone now.

 

[vito3223]

Seems pretty rare to me. I can rattle off a half dozen other things I have seen WAY more often. 5 cars out of.... shoot, no idea how many hundred of CR TDIs I used to see regularly. Mostly gone now.

What else have you seen? So most people have turned them in.

I am worried of keeping it with a potential future hpfp issue.

 

[kjclow]

With the updated warranty coming from the fix, the hpfp is finally covered. I'm less worried now.

 

[mrorganic]

I was not so worried about my HPFP either as I got the modification on my car at 75,000 and the VW web site said i had an extended warranty to 129,000. My check engine light came on and i was not able to get it to stay off myself and so took my TDI to the dealer. The service Advisor told me, they new exactly what was happening to my car and and proceeded to tell me that there was metal filings in my fuel and that VW would not cover/honor the warranty because i did not have a "Fuel Guard Kit" installed on my car.

My advice to any TDI owner if you do not have this Fuel Guard Kit on your car is to find one and put it on your car.

I now have a 2012 VW Jetta Sportwagon that i can not use that only has 91,000 miles on it. I did not think that the HPFP was out when i took it in, as all the failures that i had read about showed immediate and no warning with a Check Engine light.

Hope all will spread this about the Fuel Guard Kit. I did find three of them but no use to me now.

So i am all for filing or being part of a class action law suit about the failures of the HPFP.



My car still runs, but i am not going to drive it until I get it fixed.

 

[mrorganic]

Up date from my last post. I still advice every one that has a warranty on there VW that if they do not have the "Fuel Guard Kit" installed on there car, to get one and install it your self. That is the reason that VW used to deny the warranty on my car.



Okay for the update and this is important if you think you car has a warranty and do not have the Fuel Guard Kit installed, and your HPFP fails, you may never get the warranty due that VW says they have on your car.



In my case i feel that Dealer was on my side and seemed like they wanted to honor the warranty but told me that VW would not honor there warranty. So I called VW and the guy i talked to said positively they would not honor the warranty because there was no "Fuel Guard Kit" installed on my car.

I also called an attorney that I found (not sure how) that worked on the case against VW. It took about 2 weeks or longer, i was buying a new car when i got a call from the service Manger at the Dealer telling me that VW was honoring the warranty. This was the best news i had herd in years.

The service manager also told me that if the HPFP had failed and no Check Engine Light warning me, that VW would not had covered my warranty. But because the warranty covers almost or everything about the CEL, that they were going to warranty my car. I was thrilled.

But this is also giving any one with one of these cars under warranty, they if they do not have the "Fuel Guard Kit" installed on there car, you are likely to lose your warranty if you have a HPFP failure. Hope every one that reads this will spread this information about the Fuel Guard Kit.

 

[DBubba65]

Interesting read...and timely

Tonight I was making my regular 200 mile home from my office. When I left the office I had over a half a tank of diesel so I knew I did not need to stop for fuel. About 130 miles into the journey my car started losing power and the glow plug light started flashing. I pulled over to the shoulder of the highway and the engine stalled. Regular engine temp, a little over 1/4 of a tank of fuel remaining, no odd smells, etc...

I checked the engine oil and referenced owners manual. Engine control malfunction was the cause of the flashing glow plug light. I attempted another start and the engine acted like it was out of fuel?? How could that be the guage showed fuel..

I called a tow truck and had it pulled in. Service advisory hopped in the car to place into neutral to let it roll off the flatbed wrecker. I saw the low fuel light and empty fuel guage reading and asked him what is going on?

Has any else had a sticky fuel guage sending unit?? This is gonna make me puke if they have to replace the fuel system and possibly the engine,.

 

[EffinNewGuy]

My post-fix 2013 CPO JSW TDI DSG threw a CEL light last night after fill up. I've only owned this car for a month and a half, currently has ~48.5K miles. I fueled up at a high traffic high volume location right off the highway. Car still ran fine, the only issue was the light.

Took it to my dealer this morning, after a while they told me the whole fuel system was going to be replaced and they were putting me in a loaner. I went back to get the car seat out and talked to the Tech. He showed me the photos he had on his phone of the metal shavings and rust in the HPFP and clogging the screen. They also did the on-site fuel analysis and said it failed, but the tech did say it's just a sniffer test that only gives a pass/fail (no numerical analysis). I have photo'd every fuel receipt and kept a log of fuel-ups.

Good news, they said it's warrantied, 100% covered. No issues for me.

I do, however, have a question regarding the post HPFP/CR/injector/fuel system replacement. Should I worry about any post fix issues? Has anyone had issues with the replacement HPFP? Is it a direct part replacement, or has VW updated the CP4?

Thanks in advance.

 

[tdi54]

I have just changed the fuel filter (2010 TDI) and in the process removed the housing, emptied the fuel and cleaned it very well. After 211,000 miles and 8 years later, there were some sort of brownish looking stuff at the bottom. However, I have not seen metal pieces (on the filter or in the housing) and the car starts/runs pretty good. So the original HPFP has served me pretty well so far, and hope it continues the same way in many thousand miles I plan on putting on this car. I would say with relative ease that one of the best car I have ever owned.

 

[EffinNewGuy]

My post-fix 2013 CPO JSW TDI DSG threw a CEL light last night after fill up. I've only owned this car for a month and a half, currently has ~48.5K miles. I fueled up at a high traffic high volume location right off the highway. Car still ran fine, the only issue was the light.

Took it to my dealer this morning, after a while they told me the whole fuel system was going to be replaced and they were putting me in a loaner. I went back to get the car seat out and talked to the Tech. He showed me the photos he had on his phone of the metal shavings and rust in the HPFP and clogging the screen. They also did the on-site fuel analysis and said it failed, but the tech did say it's just a sniffer test that only gives a pass/fail (no numerical analysis). I have photo'd every fuel receipt and kept a log of fuel-ups.

Good news, they said it's warrantied, 100% covered. No issues for me.

I do, however, have a question regarding the post HPFP/CR/injector/fuel system replacement. Should I worry about any post fix issues? Has anyone had issues with the replacement HPFP? Is it a direct part replacement, or has VW updated the CP4?

Thanks in advance.

Update. Car fixed by VW in two days. Warranty repair with no issues. I was put in a new 2019 Passat Wolfsburg. It was just OK. I hated the automatic slush box, the engine felt anemic, and the steering was lifeless. Glad to have my JSW back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DBubba65]

Tonight I was making my regular 200 mile home from my office. When I left the office I had over a half a tank of diesel so I knew I did not need to stop for fuel. About 130 miles into the journey my car started losing power and the glow plug light started flashing. I pulled over to the shoulder of the highway and the engine stalled. Regular engine temp, a little over 1/4 of a tank of fuel remaining, no odd smells, etc...
I checked the engine oil and referenced owners manual. Engine control malfunction was the cause of the flashing glow plug light. I attempted another start and the engine acted like it was out of fuel?? How could that be the guage showed fuel..
I called a tow truck and had it pulled in. Service advisory hopped in the car to place into neutral to let it roll off the flatbed wrecker. I saw the low fuel light and empty fuel guage reading and asked him what is going on?
Has any else had a sticky fuel guage sending unit?? This is gonna make me puke if they have to replace the fuel system and possibly the engine,.

Update my fuel system was replaced under HPFP TSB. There was metal shavings found in the fuel filter housing and a loose fuel line underhood. This was possibly reinstalled improperly after emission recall by selling dealer??

Who knows??....but it is running great since.

3 Days to diagnose and repair. Impressed with repairing dealer, will go back for any dealer required service work.

 

[RabbitGTI]

What is a "fuel guard kit"?

 

[oilhammer]

The thing they stick in the fuel fill neck to prohibit the use of a non-diesel nozzle, no idea how it is supposed to work, as they also sell a funnel to be able to defeat it since it often will not allow the car to be fueled up even with diesel.

 

[kjclow]

Basically a metal plate with spring actuated doors that only open with the smaller nozzle that diesel pumps are supposed to use. I think in 9 years of driving my JSW, I've only had one station that did not have the smaller car nozzles.