Paulinski
Veteran Member
AWESOME Andrew!!!!
CP3 Pump Install Experiments.**Big Picts**
- Thread starter 2micron
- Start date
JFettig
Vendor
So glad you finally did it!
ihatespeed
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Location
- holbrook, ma
- TDI
- 11 tdi wagon 6mt 15 golf 6mt (Wife's) 2000 Ford 350 7.3l 6mt 4x4 (technically a TDI)
well done! If my pump ever grenades I'll adopt a cp3 for sure, looks like an easy swap especially since I have your other products to keep the rest of the fuel system clean
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums...0EA09F8-2313-0000035064790338_zps772412b9.mp4.
First start. The gear whine from the rear mounted supply pump is awesome!!
Hard to see it all, but the electric Auxiliary pump is gone. The in tank lift pump simply has to fill the positive displacement gear pump and it takes over feeding the bulletproof eccentric shaft, wobble plate and high pressure plungers.
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About 250kms on it, several runs up to 5k rpm. Smooth as silk!!
I'll get more pictures later!
All the best,
Andrew
First start. The gear whine from the rear mounted supply pump is awesome!!
Hard to see it all, but the electric Auxiliary pump is gone. The in tank lift pump simply has to fill the positive displacement gear pump and it takes over feeding the bulletproof eccentric shaft, wobble plate and high pressure plungers.
.
About 250kms on it, several runs up to 5k rpm. Smooth as silk!!
I'll get more pictures later!
All the best,
Andrew
bobt2382
Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Wow! Great work. So happy to see this.
Bob
PS Getting ready to change the OEM fuel filter in the next couple of days. First change since your kits were installed last summer. We'll see how it goes.
Bob
PS Getting ready to change the OEM fuel filter in the next couple of days. First change since your kits were installed last summer. We'll see how it goes.
afarfalla
Veteran Member
are you considering production run?
waltzconmigo
Veteran Member
Nice work Andrew.
JaredC01
Veteran Member
I keep throwing money at my screen but nothing is happening!
Sent from my LG G3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my LG G3 using Tapatalk
waltzconmigo
Veteran Member
I have to admit that this made me laugh.
pfennig
Active member
I'm a late comer to this party, and the project looks like a lot of fun -- I wish I had metal working skills! And engine skills! etc etc
But can someone clarify for this newb the goal(s) of this project? Is it just about finding a more reliable replacement option for the OEM pump? Or is this something so that I can turn my new JSW into a 300 (250?) HP monster once it's out of warranty, by supplying more fuel to the engine than stock? I saw "stage 3" mentioned a few times but don't know what that means yet.
I.e. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at other than awesome-sauce. Where do I learn more so I can _really_ appreciate how awesome it is?
But can someone clarify for this newb the goal(s) of this project? Is it just about finding a more reliable replacement option for the OEM pump? Or is this something so that I can turn my new JSW into a 300 (250?) HP monster once it's out of warranty, by supplying more fuel to the engine than stock? I saw "stage 3" mentioned a few times but don't know what that means yet.
I.e. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at other than awesome-sauce. Where do I learn more so I can _really_ appreciate how awesome it is?
waltzconmigo
Veteran Member
pfennig---it is early here and I am still waiting for the coffee to brew and this is an old thread but iirc (when this project started it was more the former than the later, although that may be possible as well). I see that you are new here, are you aware of the HPFP failures on a small percent of the 09-14 cars (not applicable to the Passat)? Andrew has also developed an add on filtration system to keep the swarf from contaminating the whole fuel system when this failure occurs (see his thread in the vendor section). Welcome to Tdiclub. Many of us are in awe of the skills of members like 2micron, we are very lucky to have their contributions shared openly in the forum. Post #14 by oilhammer (a highly respected guru here) says it all.
2011tdiproject
Veteran Member
I don't know what happened to the other hpfp swap thread, the one about the cp4.2 swap, but basically everything I said there applies here too. Reliability aside, what I got into there was pumping impulses vs injector firing impulses in the quest to support more hp. I'm not disputing that the cp3 is a better or more reliable design. But as far as supporting more horsepower, how can creating pressure when the injectors are not firing create more fuel available for when they do fire? It cannot, the pump is just dead headed momentarily. Without some way of accumulating that pressure, like a coiled steel line to the rail or something, CCs per pump revolution won't matter. CCs per degree of rotation in the window the injector is firing will. As in the other thread, the cp4.1 has to be timed to the crank for this exact reason, the motor won't run if it is not. Reading that the cp4.1 has to be timed or the motor won't run is what made me start thinking about all of this, and thinking that the factory accumulator does not actually accumulate pressure. Looking at the cummins, the cp3 pistons pump fuel every 120 degrees, just like the firing impulses of the inline 6. Same with the BMW. And the ford and duramax went to the cp4.2s because they have firing impules every 90 degrees, just like the pumping impulses of the double piston, double lobed cp4.2s. The cp3 in a 4 cyl application was described as running at 2/3 crank speed because 120/180 is 2/3. Again, I'm not disputing improved reliability of the cp3 pump, just commenting on the way the fuel pressure is created vs the way the injectors use it up. I am not in any way attemtping to discredit any of the work put forth in this thread, just trying to provide food for thought. In the cp4.2 thread, I wanted to write that a modded cp4.1 with increased displacement (longer stroke, bigger bore) would be a more efficient, although probably less reliable way to support more hp on a 4 cyl than a cp4.2 or cp3 without a way to "accumulate" pressure, like the coiled line thing I mentioned before.
I think that's less of an issue here. I'm curious of the drive ratio of the CP1H the Cruze's use. Some accumulator may be required for the best performance, but I'm sure they'll notice a performance detriment soon if that's the case, since these are on the road now.
You could likely look at cylinder balance values to see if one was contributing less, but unlike the CP4.2 swap, this isn't really about the added fuel capability. Even if the pulses are not ideal, if this pump runs the engine in stock or tuned capacity, that's all most need. This swap is primarily about reliability, not performance.
You could likely look at cylinder balance values to see if one was contributing less, but unlike the CP4.2 swap, this isn't really about the added fuel capability. Even if the pulses are not ideal, if this pump runs the engine in stock or tuned capacity, that's all most need. This swap is primarily about reliability, not performance.
MonsterTDI09
TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Location
- NoVa/NJ
- TDI
- 2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
The ECM will balance each cylinder to make them equal. If one cylinder is off it will back off the fuel on the others to make them equal. It will do this until it outside of a set range of how far the cylinder can be off.
Ok. That's what I was thinking. I'm not all too familiar with what data it gives you. My thought was that if one cylinder or so was weaker as it's firing event didn't perfectly coincide with a pumping event from the CP3, could you look at the balance values to see if the ECU had to really back down some cylinders, but not others?
What's being suggested is that some cylinders will be weak since those events don't coincide. I would think that if this were the case, you'd see an obvious difference in balance values as the ECU corrects for the weaker cylinders, and if this was actually no issue, the values would be very similar cylinder to cylinder. Just a thought to try and see if that is even an issue.
Granted, I've never poked around in the ECU. Does it actually show the balance values on a per cylinder basis?
What's being suggested is that some cylinders will be weak since those events don't coincide. I would think that if this were the case, you'd see an obvious difference in balance values as the ECU corrects for the weaker cylinders, and if this was actually no issue, the values would be very similar cylinder to cylinder. Just a thought to try and see if that is even an issue.
Granted, I've never poked around in the ECU. Does it actually show the balance values on a per cylinder basis?
Well it seems Chevy did not time the CP1H to firing events on the Cruze diesel. It's a 3 piston radial pump, very similar to the CP3. The crank sprocket has 26 teeth, and the HPFP has 48. So one crank rotation is only a little over half a rotation of the HPFP (.54:1).
Smokin_Joe
Veteran Member
Bump
Any updates?
Any updates?
schreibers
Veteran Member
CP3 Pumps seem to be the fix according to Andrew he's been running one for over 25K with no problems. Not a cheap upgrade though it can vary used vs new vs remanufactured. I think ID parts sells the Liberty CRD 2.8 Bosch pump new for $1200 if I remember correctly.
Wow! It's been a while, thanks for asking Joe!!
Yes, ~26k miles, a great cold winter and zero issues.
The pump is awesome and works good. I often forget it's even there, but still get a faint reminder with the gear whine from the feed pump.
In the fall I was running tests, logs, monitoring mileage etc!! No drama, I just drive the car to work now and forget about the pump.
We went on a big family trip a couple weeks after install, pretty remote areas up north with full confidence.
This winter was great for "extreme" testing as the temperature has been colder than normal. I did notice the car starts with less cranks than before. The CP3 pump builds pressure with less rotation than the CP4.
Fuel mileage is no different.
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Maybe not mentioned in the past, the electric Aux pump is long removed as the CP3 pump I use has its own gear driven feed pump. The in tank lift pump is still there, simply feeding the pump. I also run the 2Microntech "contain flow" filter as a 1micron pre filter, after the factory filter. Not required, but it feels great feeding super polished fuel!!!
My car is bone stock, no tune or other upgrades.
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These pumps are very plentiful and avaiable in Europe. Dozens of small cars use them.
Thanks for asking!!
Andrew
greengeeker
Vendor
Agreed!
DieselDubs83
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2011
- Location
- Mount Pleasant Mills, PA
- TDI
- 2002 Jetta GLS 5spd, 2005 Passat BHW, 82 Caddy TDI
Hey 2micron, I sent you a PM
amstel78
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2012
- Location
- Shohola, PA
- TDI
- 2012 Golf TDI [buyback completed 14/1/2017] 2006 S65 AMG
Good work Andrew! Any chance of a turn-key solution coming from you any time soon?
P.S. With the new pump, can those with Stage II or III tunes and larger turbos take advantage of larger rails and injectors with increased flow rates? Right now, it seems the fuel system is the limiting factor for those trying to achieve higher HP/torque numbers.