CP3 Pump Install Experiments.**Big Picts**

[2micron]

Hello All,
This has been a very fun project so far, very rewarding and full of twists along the way.
First off, several people have contributed so far:
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TDISyncro first dreamed and promoted the idea to install a CP3 Pump on a VW 2.0 Common Rail.
He also supplied valuable parts and helped with Critical Measurements.
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Karter59 and Tyrel supplied the block and Crankshaft.
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Redneckdiesel supplied the Alternator and A/C pump.
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My buddy Daryl was a huge help in the Electronics of the test bench to drive and map the Fuel delivery.
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I am no expert at anything, but do enjoy experimenting and also always have fun learning from others knowledge and my mistakes!!
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Here's a quick intro to the project this far. I am still working on the belt drive and tensioner system, but getting closer.
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Mock up Motor - early stages.
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Vibration testing on the Rail to Measure The Pump "Pulses"
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Here's a video showing the car running with the CP3 pump, driven by a 1950's Gravely Lawnmower!!
http://s1059.photobucket.com/albums/t428/2micron/?action=view&current=DSCI0496.mp4
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Still a ways to go, but still having fun and enjoying the project!
I will share and update as it progresses.
All the best!,

 

[Blackheart]

I'm in awe of you people that can do practical engineering like this! Way to go!

 

[kjclow]

Interested in seeing how you get the cp3 into the engine compartment. Thanks for your help and good luck going forward.

 

[Powerstroke GONE TDI]

Awesome work! Following for updates.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[oldpoopie]

Genius

 

[red64chevelle]

Keep it up! The video of it running was great.

 

[STRANGETDI]

Impressive! Way above my knowledge but will follow this thread.

 

[53 willys]

Great work Andrew!!!
when you get a minute hurry....I'm up to 80,000 miles in a few days...I need a CP3 for my car before 100,000 when my warranty expires..;-)
lol

 

[2micron]

Wow! Thanks for the nice comments!! Thanks for following and I will keep updates coming as the project progresses. The toughest part about fitting the pump in the car is now the secondary tensioner, on the upper belt. I have been trying to use "off the shelf" components to make it easier if any one else is interested in this. The upper tensioner may have to be modified from stock to fit between the frame rails. There is actually quite a bit of room around the pump in the car. .
The CP3 pump has a "gear drive" low pressure feed system built in. The original VW auxiliary (boost) pump will be removed, but the factory temperature sensor will remain. Today was good as I sourced a double sided serpentine 7 rib belt to drive the new intermediate pulley.

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Here are a couple old videos, early in the test bench phase. Both pumps were run through extremes, carefully measuring temperatures, pressures and flow rates. The interesting part was that the new pump takes ABOUT the same horsepower to develop the same flow rates and pressures. It is much more efficient and runs considerably cooler.
Stock Factory pump:
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t428/2micron/c244d755.mp4
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New CP3 pump:
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t428/2micron/f53aea23.mp4
.Here's a couple more Picts of my favorite lawnmower!

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Thanks again,
All the best!

 

[kjclow]

I love the use of the rosette!

 

[kydsid]

Awesome work. Will follow with interest.

Question: You say you removed , or will remove the auxillary (boost) pump. Is this the second pump present on JSW/Golf/Jetta's that is NOT present on the new Passat? Just thinking of applicability to all CR's , as a Passat owner that is. Thanks.

 

[Jethro]

Wow. I must say, I am VERY impressed with this work.
Adapting a known functional pump onto this engine would be awesome!

You could sell kits!

 

[Westro]

wow!

Awesome work, but also sad that at this stage a forum member has done more for the HPFP than VW has.

 

[oilhammer]

You see this, Volkswagen? Some guy in Canada in his garage is engineering a fix for something you failed royally on!

Good job! Impressive. What stock engine(s) is the CP3 pump used on? I assume later Bosch injected Cummins and Duramax engines?

 

[bannister]

The Dmax used the CP3 on the LB7, LLY, LBZ & LMM engines 01 thru 10(?) IIRC.

The '11-12 LML engines use a CP4.2

 

[WutGas?]

You see this, Volkswagen? Some guy in Canada in his garage is engineering a fix for something you failed royally on!

Quoted, just because I felt like it needed to be reemphasized!

 

[Honeydew]

What stock engine(s) is the CP3 pump used on? I assume later Bosch injected Cummins and Duramax engines?

Along with the D-maxes mentioned Cummins 5.9 and 6.7 (til MY '11?) CR use CP3 as does Liberty CRD. edit: also M-B E320 CDI

 

[2micron]

We still must credit VW engineers. The rest of the car is awesome as well as many previous generations and of course any Passat too!

kydsid, sure this is entirely possible on any CR, especially a Passat. During the test bench experiments, I also ran a 2012 Passat pump. (slightly longer stroke than a regular CBEA/CJAA pump) The Passat pump is exactly the same internals and principle, with very marginally more capacity at all RPM's. To achieve the same flow on the new CP3, a very slight increase in RPM is all that is required.
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oilhammer - the pumps I experiment with are from Cummins "reargear" industrial 6.7 engines. These are used in commercial trucks and industrial applications. These pumps are very similar to the standard cummins / dodge pumps, but with a heavier gear train to feed the low pressure side, as well as having reverse rotation. These pumps are very available and dirt cheap. Watch how the CP3 rotates:
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t428/2micron/aa513ce5.mp4.
.Inside a CP3:

All the best,

 

[Honeydew]

Here is some info from Bosch on CP3 circa 2005, I scanned it from a book.

 

[marleyi]

You see this, Volkswagen? Some guy in Canada in his garage is engineering a fix for something you failed royally on!

HaaaHaaa Be careful to agitate the beast, German Engineers seem to have their feelings hurt very easily. Most of my machinery for work we have to buy, comes out of Germany and any time I have to talk to an German engineer about design change or fixes they thrown a pouting fit. It's kind of funny, but sad.

 

[kydsid]

Stupid question. If a CP3 pump runs these engines why did they develop/use a new pump?

 

[oilhammer]

I have the utmost respect for them, which is why I have no problems calling them out on things they tooefed.

If I had some alone time with some engineers, I'd be glad to hand out some Ribbons of Shame.

 

[kjclow]

HaaaHaaa Be careful to agitate the beast, German Engineers seem to have their feelings hurt very easily. Most of my machinery for work we have to buy, comes out of Germany and any time I have to talk to an German engineer about design change or fixes they thrown a pouting fit. It's kind of funny, but sad.

I work for a German company and see that any time I question one of their decisions!

 

[2micron]

Honeydew - thanks for the great information from Bosch about the CP3! Please see if you can dig up and repost the link to the animated video of the pump rotating..
kydsid - not at all a stupid question. There are no stupid questions! Probably no one here can answer why Bosch designed a new pump? Quick thoughts may be the CP3 is quite labor intensive to manufacture. It has 3 of everything (precision bores, plungers, valves and buckets) not to mention a housing with a 60 Rockwell (bearing race) hardness. The other pump has 1 of each and an aluminum cast housing.
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53willys / others - in your experience, let's discuss the real world performance and longetivety of these pumps as well as the recent improvements on sealing capabilities. Please share any thoughts.
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Thanks to all,

 

[bannister]

Stupid question. If a CP3 pump runs these engines why did they develop/use a new pump?

The 11-12 LML Dmaxes no longer use the CP3 either... they switched to the CP4.2 which I have heard is very similar to the CP4.1 used on the CR VW's. Pretty sure the 11-12 6.7 PSD uses it also.

In the Dmax world, I know the CP3 has supported 90-120hp tunes without a lift pump before it would throw P1093 but you may not be able to keep your foot in it for extended periods of time. Big hp tunes, especially with twins most people opt to run a dual CP3 setup with a lift pump.

Can't speak for the CR Cummins... know nothing about them.

 

[Honeydew]

Honeydew - thanks for the great information from Bosch about the CP3! Please see if you can dig up and repost the link to the animated video of the pump rotating..

You're welcome, thank you for sharing the details of your project! Here's a link to the video: http://youtu.be/H-CNXDs9208

 

[sintax]

The 11-12 LML Dmaxes no longer use the CP3 either... they switched to the CP4.2 which I have heard is very similar to the CP4.1 used on the CR VW's. Pretty sure the 11-12 6.7 PSD uses it also.

In the Dmax world, I know the CP3 has supported 90-120hp tunes without a lift pump before it would throw P1093 but you may not be able to keep your foot in it for extended periods of time. Big hp tunes, especially with twins most people opt to run a dual CP3 setup with a lift pump.

I can agree with what you are saying, I run a 150 hp tune w/o a lift pump on my truck and I've never gotten any sort of supply issue or code.

Interesting mod, that is for sure.

 

[Feyd]

I'm subscribing to this one!

 

[jbright]

I'm subscribing to this one!

Me, too.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Proof of concept is great. Can we see some VCDS graphs of rail pressure?