CP3 fuel pump upgrade thread

[T1MMBOJONES]

I also installed a 2200 BAR fuel rail sensor and had it tuned accordingly so the Rail target pressure is now 2000BAR rather than the stock 1900.. Perhaps the CP3 can't bypass enough fuel when combined with the stock rail pressure target and the Aux pump

to be quite honest i dont evdn know what sensor i have. i bought my kit from whitbread. i installed it and drove it a few days before adding my malone tune specific to said pump and noticed zero changes. cp4 was probably healthy im just paranoid. but car fealt the same stock/cp4 vs cp3no tune vs cp3/tune. i also added dynamic egr tuning but nothing above stock. all i know is everything i read said to eliminate the aux pump so i did

 

[Timma100]

to be quite honest i dont evdn know what sensor i have. i bought my kit from whitbread. i installed it and drove it a few days before adding my malone tune specific to said pump and noticed zero changes. cp4 was probably healthy im just paranoid. but car fealt the same stock/cp4 vs cp3no tune vs cp3/tune. i also added dynamic egr tuning but nothing above stock. all i know is everything i read said to eliminate the aux pump so i did

The rail pressure sensor is on the left side of the fuel rail, requires a super deep well 6 point 24mm (if I remember right, maybe its a 26MM) socket to change.. Torques to 75ft lbs.. its a unique item to change.. So probably stock on yours..

Right now I've got my aux pump electrically unplugged, but fuel is still routed through it. I may remove it all together for better access to the upper timing cover...

 

[pedroYUL]

Quick question. How do you remove the hub from the old pump? I don't think there is enough room for a puller, but I don't have one, so I could be wrong.

 

[Timma100]

Quick question. How do you remove the hub from the old pump? I don't think there is enough room for a puller, but I don't have one, so I could be wrong.

This timing gear puller specifically

https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/parts-puller-installer/p/oemtools-timing-gear-and-pulley-puller/231208_0_0?searchText=sprocket+puller

The included bolts just so happen to thread into the stock hub!

 

[pedroYUL]

Thanks @Timma100 . Although both mine are 2015 with a single big nut in the middle, not 3 screws. I can post a pic in a few minutes so you can see what I'm talking about if you haven't seen

 

[pedroYUL]

Here. Those holes are not threaded. The outer can be wiggled out, but a 3 lobed hub remains pressed to the spindle:

 

[Timma100]

Here. Those holes are not threaded. The outer can be wiggled out, but a 3 lobed hub remains pressed to the spindle:

Mine is the same, so that sprocket will come off with some "Convincing" underneath that, is the hub that has to be pulled.. remove the HPFP TDC pin for now, as it will be in the way.. CP3s dont have to be timed, and the hub is keyed, so you can re-time the CP4 if needed.

 

[pedroYUL]

Mine is the same, so that sprocket will come off with some "Convincing" underneath that, is the hub that has to be pulled.. remove the HPFP TDC pin for now, as it will be in the way.. CP3s dont have to be timed, and the hub is keyed, so you can re-time the CP4 if needed.

And the hub has threaded holes? Darn I am getting old, I just did all that Saturday and I don't recall the hub having holes, but I believe you.

I'm chasing other weirdness, so I bought a new CP4 and we'll see. Worst case I'm resetting the clock somewhat, and practicing for the actual CP3 upgrade.

 

[calimustang]

my understanding is it throws a rail pressure too high code. most cp3 pumps have a built in pump ive learned, the style found in bmw's do not however and maybe require keeping it(?) you can identify them easily based on whether or not it has the little vented thing opposing the pulley or not.

IMG_5215.jpeg

• T1MMBOJONES
• Oct 16, 2023

You are correct. BMW CP3’s don't have that gear drive like our CP3 pumps hence why our pumps with gear drive don't need Aux pump like BMW Cp3 does Which disappointed me. I love the cleaner appearance engine bay. So I will stick to the gear driven CP3’s.

 

[Timma100]

You are correct. BMW CP3’s dont have that gear drive like our CP3 pumps hence why our pumps eoth gear drove dont need Aux pump like BMW Cp3 does Which disappointed me. I liked the cleaner engine bay. So I will stick to the gear driven CP3’s.

Gotcha, mine has the gear drive, and I’ve driven the car with the aux pump on and off, no difference or codes. If I can get that cluster of out the bay I’m all for it. Easier timing cover access, one less component to fail. Win win

 

[calimustang]

Gotcha, mine has the gear drive, and I’ve driven the car with the aux pump on and off, no difference or codes. If I can get that cluster of out the bay I’m all for it. Easier timing cover access, one less component to fail. Win win

amen to that! I will take a picture of my set up soon but keep in mind this is old 2micron cp3 set up. The whole shebang is little different but same route of hoses without aux pump.

 

[Timma100]

amen to that! I will take a picture of my set up soon but keep in mind this is old 2micron cp3 set up. The whole shebang is little different but same route of hoses without aux pump.

I’ve got a CAT 1R-0750 and a filter head on a shelf, I’ll probably do something similar to the 2micron kit and double filter the fuel supply.. 99% efficient @ 2 micron is maybe 50% at 1 micron? Considering I’ve got the 2 micron rated WIX factory single hole filter (I changed from the double hole old style after rolling an O-Ring out of the filter during install and being forever paranoid after that)… so the cat 0750 inline with the stock.. should give decent 1 micron filtration and two potential water traps

 

[Timma100]

amen to that! I will take a picture of my set up soon but keep in mind this is old 2micron cp3 set up. The whole shebang is little different but same route of hoses without aux pump.

Aux pump deleted!

IMG_7039.jpeg

• Timma100
• Oct 16, 2023

 

[Timma100]

And the hub has threaded holes? Darn I am getting old, I just did all that Saturday and I don't recall the hub having holes, but I believe you.

I'm chasing other weirdness, so I bought a new CP4 and we'll see. Worst case I'm resetting the clock somewhat, and practicing for the actual CP3 upgrade.

Do you have a strong counter hold for the pump hub? Bentley has it torqued to 75ft lbs.. I just torqued the CP3 to 95, and it was NOT an easy task to do (if you’re stuck holding the counter hold and torque wrench).. item 19

IMG_7041.jpeg

• Timma100
• Oct 16, 2023

 

[pedroYUL]

Do you have a strong counter hold for the pump hub? Bentley has it torqued to 75ft lbs.. I just torqued the CP3 to 95, and it was NOT an easy task to do (if you’re stuck holding the counter hold and torque wrench).. item 19

IMG_7041.jpeg

• Timma100
• Oct 16, 2023

Yes I have the counter hold tool.

 

[shapeshifter3735]

I have a question it's not CP3 pump time yet but it's related I'm just now getting MK6 SportWagen so at the moment I don't have the money for the CP3 pump Is there any reason why it would not be a good idea to put a 2 micron filter before the CP4 pump and after the CP4 pump. My thought is the first builder would catch anything going into the pump so in theory nothing going in would break it and the second filter would catch anything coming out of the pump so in theory if the pump ate itself it's bits couldn't be scattered throughout the rest of the engine The fillers should catch it? I'm not a mechanic but it was just a thought? Thank you

 

[Timma100]

I have a question it's not CP3 pump time yet but it's related I'm just now getting MK6 SportWagen so at the moment I don't have the money for the CP3 pump Is there any reason why it would not be a good idea to put a 2 micron filter before the CP4 pump and after the CP4 pump. My thought is the first builder would catch anything going into the pump so in theory nothing going in would break it and the second filter would catch anything coming out of the pump so in theory if the pump ate itself it's bits couldn't be scattered throughout the rest of the engine The fillers should catch it? I'm not a mechanic but it was just a thought? Thank you

It’s the way the CP4 fails that makes it so difficult to prevent. Here’s a great breakdown video of the primary differences between the pump designs. Basically, the fuel feed passes through the rotating assembly of the CP4 before being compressed and distributed to the injectors. So when the cam lobe or bucket roller shear off metal, it goes straight through the metering valve, gets compressed and sent into the rail then injectors.. then passing back through the return and contaminating the fuel filter, tank and aux pump.. the CP3 can still fail of course, however its the return fuel that provides lubrication to the internal rotating assembly of the CP3. so as long as you filter the return from the pump you’re safe. However if you don’t, and you retain the stock fuel filter that recirculates return fuel, you can have the exact same catastrophic failure and system wide contamination

 

[shapeshifter3735]

Hi thanks for the video but that brought up another question. Because the CP3 pump has three pumping elements does it have to be timed the same as a CP4 pump. Also I still don't know if putting a two micron filter before the CP4 pump and after the CP4 pump would do any good? Or maybe the best you can do is put the after two micron fuel filter on the return line? Maybe the pressure coming out of the pump is too much for it to handle I don't know? Also it brings up another point if it's common knowledge CP4 pumps fail at a high rate why hasn't there been a class section lawsuit against car manufacturers using something that they know will cost their customers large sums of money seems like they could be sued for that? Thank you

 

[Timma100]

Hi thanks for the video but that brought up another question. Because the CP3 pump has three pumping elements does it have to be timed the same as a CP4 pump. Also I still don't know if putting a two micron filter before the CP4 pump and after the CP4 pump would do any good? Or maybe the best you can do is put the after two micron fuel filter on the return line? Maybe the pressure coming out of the pump is too much for it to handle I don't know? Also it brings up another point if it's common knowledge CP4 pumps fail at a high rate why hasn't there been a class section lawsuit against car manufacturers using something that they know will cost their customers large sums of money seems like they could be sued for that? Thank you

For timing, the CP3 pump does not need to be timed at all. Our CP4.1 has one pump head or element, CP4.2 is two pump heads for example.. so if our CP4.1 timed incorrectly and was past top dead center while the rest of the engine (cam and crank) are, you would theoretically have a longer crank time before rail pressure was sufficient to start the engine. The CP3 does not have this issue as there are so many pumping elements one is almost always near top dead center/ready to pressurize the fuel rail. For CP4 filtering, the return can be filtered, but the pump output needs to be filtered, so you need a 2 micron filter that can withstand 1900BAR of pressure… There are some metering valve kits that have a finer internal filter but are made for CP4.2 pumps and I haven’t found any tuning support to retrofit them to the CP4.1. Not that it doesn’t exist, just haven’t found it. The CP3 conversion is the tried and true solution. Checkout white bread performance or Xman for a kit. Xman resells the adapter kit from white bread but they include a metering valve and their CP3 is black

 

[pedroYUL]

And the hub has threaded holes? Darn I am getting old, I just did all that Saturday and I don't recall the hub having holes, but I believe you.

I'm chasing other weirdness, so I bought a new CP4 and we'll see. Worst case I'm resetting the clock somewhat, and practicing for the actual CP3 upgrade.

...and the hub in a 2015 CRUA/CVCA doesn't have holes:

But the correct 3 jaw puller can get it out:

Incorrect puller:

 

[pedroYUL]

Yes I have the counter hold tool.

Easy counterhold, the car support took the 75ft lb with ease, it should take 95 also:

 

[shapeshifter3735]

Wow! Thank you I'm a newbie so I'm just now learning all this stuff! I've had diesel Jettas for years for decades but it's always been the MK4s with the ALH engines so I never had to worry about anything! That's the only thing I've driven since the early 2000s since about 2003. The only thing you have to do with those occasionally change the oil and just every once in awhile change your timing belt and you're golden lol and they run forever!!! I have one with almost 400,000 mi on it.

 

[ksing44]

I currently have a 2-micron "polishing filter" after the OEM filter and before the upgraded CP3 pump. My understanding is that mine is a repurposed return filter from "2micron", the original inventor of both a return filter and the first CP3 pump conversion. Based on the information I received, the CP3 pump is reliable enough not to need the return filter. But the parts can be also used to get the cleanest possible fuel going to your upgraded CP3 pump.

All that said, I'm considering removing the polishing filter to simplify servicing of my car. I'm not a DIY guy and I use the dealer 2-miles from my house for most of the work on my car. The TDI guru that installed the CP3 pump and has the 2-micron filters is located a couple of hundred miles away from me. I'm thinking since other new providers for conversion kits don't worry about a polishing filter or a containment filter system maybe I really don't need either. The CP3 pump is so reliable, maybe I simply don't need the extra filter.

My 2010 MK6 Golf TDI has 199,860 miles as of today. Just 140 miles to go to get to 200K!

 

[CoryDaBird]

Hi. So, I did a bmw r70 cp3 the other day on my 2013 Jetta sedan. It's up and running with about 150 miles on it. I got a p0088 code today and went into limp mode. I restarted it and it was fine on the 35 mile drive home. I unplugged and replugged in the metering valve, rail pressure sensor and the pressure relief valve. Still hasn't happened again. I noticed that when the cp3 spins with the motor running, it's like the gear spins slightly off center. It's a tapered shaft and adapter so there no way it could be seated wrong. Is that normal? When looking at how the pump actually make pressure, it would make sense to offset the cam lobe. At the same time though, my cp3 in my duramax is gear driven and there aint no way that would work in there. But, the duramax cp3 has an aux pump attached to it that they could be using for the counter balancing of it.......

 

[Timma100]

Hi. So, I did a bmw r70 cp3 the other day on my 2013 Jetta sedan. It's up and running with about 150 miles on it. I got a p0088 code today and went into limp mode. I restarted it and it was fine on the 35 mile drive home. I unplugged and replugged in the metering valve, rail pressure sensor and the pressure relief valve. Still hasn't happened again. I noticed that when the cp3 spins with the motor running, it's like the gear spins slightly off center. It's a tapered shaft and adapter so there no way it could be seated wrong. Is that normal? When looking at how the pump actually make pressure, it would make sense to offset the cam lobe. At the same time though, my cp3 in my duramax is gear driven and there aint no way that would work in there. But, the duramax cp3 has an aux pump attached to it that they could be using for the counter balancing of it.......

Did you reflash the ECU? Did you retain the aux pump? (I did that by mistake) the CP3 can have trouble bypassing enough fuel to maintain 1900BAR for the target rail pressure.. I installed a 2200BAR rail pressure sensor and had the car tuned my Malone to run at 2000BAR which is easier for the CP3 to maintain (1900 is below its design output)

 

[Timma100]

...and the hub in a 2015 CRUA/CVCA doesn't have holes:

But the correct 3 jaw puller can get it out:

Incorrect puller:

man I’m sorry I was completely wrong. I had no idea the damn hub changed.. I was just going off my experience on my CJAA.

 

[CoryDaBird]

Did you reflash the ECU? Did you retain the aux pump? (I did that by mistake) the CP3 can have trouble bypassing enough fuel to maintain 1900BAR for the target rail pressure.. I installed a 2200BAR rail pressure sensor and had the car tuned my Malone to run at 2000BAR which is easier for the CP3 to maintain (1900 is below its design output)

The bmw r70 cp3 does not have the aux fuel pump built into it like most others do so you have to keep the aux fuel pump. I was messing around with it yesterday and found I had the return line to the filter housing twisted a bit and it was causing the line to bend a little too tightly and I could hear the fuel hiss from the restriction if I wiggled it around some. I got all that straightened out but haven't driven it much, hopefully that does the trick.

 

[McGuirk]

Finished a timing belt/cp3 with 2200bar sensor job on friends A3. Don't mind the overfilled coolant. Picture was taken before car was started for the first time. Girl needed time to drink her fresh coolaid.

 

[Speedmaster_102]

what's the part number of the BMW cp3?

edited - found it. it's 0445010194

 

[Speedmaster_102]

The bmw r70 cp3 does not have the aux fuel pump built into it like most others do so you have to keep the aux fuel pump. I was messing around with it yesterday and found I had the return line to the filter housing twisted a bit and it was causing the line to bend a little too tightly and I could hear the fuel hiss from the restriction if I wiggled it around some. I got all that straightened out but haven't driven it much, hopefully that does the trick.

Update? Anymore issues? Im eyeing the BMW CP3 route.