COOLANT MIGRATION in a 2002 Jetta TDI??

[Carol in Maine]

Hello, I am the original owner of this car with 49,300 miles. 9 days ago the speedometer started bouncing. The next day the speedometer malfunctioned again and then dropped to zero while cruising along at 65mph. Just by coincidence I turned on the headlights to illuminate the instrument panel and the speedometer returned to 65 but not for long.
Relating this information to my brothers (both TDI owners) they researched TDICLUB and discovered the COOLANT MIGRATION problem. I popped the hood , took off the coolant sensor and the 2 pins were sitting in a puddle of coolant. I left the sensor unplugged and waited for my car appointment at the VW dealer where the car was purchased and has been serviced. At the appointment two days ago I was told that the coolant expansion tank was defective and leaking around the pins and a new one is on order. The service advisor said that the technician could not duplicate the speedometer problem during 2 test drives. I showed them a copy of the TSB dated April, 2001 and was told that the coolant migration problem does not exist anymore as “VW has solved that problem” On my way home, the speedometer dropped to zero and I returned to the VW dealer to document the situation. The service advisor, technician and myself took the car for a drive with a scanner/computer hooked to the underside of the dash. The only information I could understand from their conversation was that the scanner/computer was not registering any speed while the speedometer was at zero. Another interesting thing happened about 2 miles into the trip…the door locks locked, much later than normal.
They scheduled an all day appointment for this Friday and was told that the car is safe to drive. They said that they needed to study the wiring diagram. On my way home, the door locks once again malfunctioned and two new problems arose….the odometer and trip meter did not function while the speedometer was malfunctioning. Of course, I called the dealer and told them the 2 new problems.
Does anyone know if the coolant migration problem still exists or whether VW has solved the problem? Any comments or suggestions?? I would like to have more information with me when I return for my Friday appointment.
Thank you!
Carol in Maine

 

[kasper]

To my knowledge, they haven't fixed the migration problem on the 2002, the erratic and irregular things that are happening indicate a short or bad connection somewhere , don't waste your money at the dealership...have a local guru do the mod to the reservoir and clean up the contacts...see the "how to" on this subject.
good luck
Ted

 

[PeterV]

migration

First call HermTDI in Richmond Me. You are fortunate to have one of the best gurus there. Coolent will cause other problems. Ask Tomo366 or eluwak. Now you should get VW to spend the money to get your car fixed right. it will not be easy and you might have to go to another dealership to get teh job done correctly. There are 2 methods of doing this job. 1. Splice in a new harness. Replace the bad harness as a layover technique.
It is expensive and an experienced qualified VW tech should only do the job.

Search these forums to get other info.

 

[Carol in Maine]

Thanks for your two replies. The car is still under warranty...700 miles short of the 50,000 cutoff...whew!! Do you know if VW has issued has a more recent TSB than the April, 2001 one? My service advisor stated that they "checked for any open bulletins on vehicle, none found".
Carol

 

[compu_85]

When they fix it, make them replace the ENTIRE harness, not just splice new ends on it. When the dealer fixed this on my car, they just chopped all the ends off the harness and spliced on new ones. I have not had any problems with it... but it is unsettling looking behind the instrument cluster and seeing ~50 spliced wiers!

Tomo366 had migration in his 2002. I believe someone else on the club had it in an 03 or 04?

You can pull the instrument cluster yourself. Put the steering wheel at it's lowest, furthest out spot. Pull the trim straight forward which is attached to the 'fabric'. It will come off. Then there are 2 torx screws under it. Remove those, and the cluster comes out. Now look at the connectors.

Also, you can remove the lower kick pannell, above the pedals, and look for coolant on the wiers in there. Or coolant on that pannell....

Speedo problems were the first indicator we had of this problem. AIRC the wheel speed sensor was the first thing that the coolant got to... maybee check there too?

-J

 

[TornadoRed]

Hello, I am the original owner of this car with 49,300 miles. (snip)
Relating this information to my brothers (both TDI owners) they researched TDICLUB and discovered the COOLANT MIGRATION problem. ... At the appointment two days ago I was told that the coolant expansion tank was defective and leaking around the pins and a new one is on order. The service advisor said that the technician could not duplicate the speedometer problem during 2 test drives. I showed them a copy of the TSB dated April, 2001 and was told that the coolant migration problem does not exist anymore as “VW has solved that problem”

Amazing, simply amazing. Faced with visible evidence of a serious problem, they responded that "the problem doesn't exist anymore." Obviously it does. And as the car continues in operation, the coolant spreads even more extensively throughout the wiring harnesses.

You are SO lucky that this is happening under warranty. This could take 30-50 hours of labor, you figure the cost. Take your Jetta back to the dealer, tell him to fix it or recommend another dealer. Figure on speaking directly with VWOA while you're there. And watch the expression on the service manager's face as he gets chewed out. Make sure you get a free rental car, this will take a while.

 

[compu_85]

And again, try to get them to replace the harness... not just repair the current one. They'll probably have to pull the dash, so make shure everything fits right when you get the car back.

-J

 

[Borborygmi]

There is no excuse for this defect to continue, and each instance should be an expensive problem for VW and they should be have to make it right for the long term.

It's a simple engineering problem to eliminate ingress of coolant into the wiring harnesses. If they can't make the seal on the expansion tank (most common) or coolant temperature sensor failsafe, then the problem should be limited by the wiring harness design. If they wanted to fix it, they would fix it. They want it to be a post-warranty problem. Yes, I am that cynical.

Bottom line is if you want to keep your car for a long time, it pays to inspect it frequently. For that matter, if you check your coolant level visually, why do you even need the expansion tank connector?

 

[akmike]

Hey does anyone here have an actual copy of the TSB on the issue? I have had to use a hard copy on a stealership before! Seems like unless you have it in black and white it doesn't affect your model...blah blah blah Having it in hand straightens out a lot of this I have found.

 

[dieseldorf]

17 page TSB:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3005/3093Coolant_Migration.pdf

 

[Carol in Maine]

Thanks dieseldorf for the link to the April '01 TSB. THIS IS THE EXACT SAME TSB that I showed to the service advisor on Monday. He dismissed it by saying "that was for up to 2001 cars...yours is a 2002"

 

[dieseldorf]

Carol, it's most unfortunate but this problem continues....with no consideration given to the MY.

 

[david_594]

At the last NH GTG someone had a new-to-them used car which apparently had coolant migration. The car had a brand new wiring harness in the engine bay. So clean you could eat off the thing. The wierd part was that it wasnt for the US spec motor as it had the connector for the oil pan level sensor. So the problem is still out there. I forgot whose car it was but they were in new england and the dealer that fixed it defenitely did it the right way.

 

[gearhead]

Carol, make sure that you recieve full doccumentation from the servicing dealership, on their VW dealership letter head (work order reciept). On this should be your Vehicle Identification Number, odometer mileage, date, & all details of your complaint (including their prognosis/repair attempts). If any part of this doccument is not correct or incomplete, insist that it is corrected and in your hand before leaving.

I'm in the process of getting my Mazad Tribute (aka ford escape) issue resolved in court via the state Lemon Law. The attorney said these doccuments are critical. Hopefully your situation will be resolved without this drastic step.

 

[Carol in Maine]

Thank you, gearhead for making an excellent recommendation. This past Monday when I complained about the puddle of coolant around the 2 pins at the top of the coolant tank, this is how the service advisor wrote it up:
"Customer states that vehicle is losing coolant"....not exactly what I said, huh?
I will take your advice and have it all written out....and thank you all for your assistance. I will post an update tomorrow after I return from my VW appointment. Carol

 

[ARBY]

My girlfriends 2002 1.8t Jetta had coolant migration. It wasn't until I produced the TSB on the issue that the service techs stopped looking at me cross-eyed. After they fixed the issue they actually thanked me for brining in the TSB and alerting the service writers to this problem. They tell me that they now check every vehicle for coolant migration.

 

[compu_85]

Damn, is this more widespread then I thought?

Maybee the coolant migration thread should be restickied?

-J

 

[gearhead]

You're welcome Carol. The devil truly is in the details.

 

[gearhead]

My girlfriends 2002 1.8t Jetta had coolant migration. It wasn't until I produced the TSB on the issue that the service techs stopped looking at me cross-eyed. After they fixed the issue they actually thanked me for brining in the TSB and alerting the service writers to this problem. They tell me that they now check every vehicle for coolant migration.

** Sounds like 'coolant migration' is a case for the "VW MoonRaker Team". They'll interpret the issue as a need larger cup holders & snazzy new paint schemes

 

[Carol in Maine]

Here is a summary of what happened with the service appointment today.
I was told:
1.) The instrument cluster has failed. ”The cluster controls the speedometer, door locks, odometer, trip meter and is hooked into the headlights.” Why it failed, they couldn’t give me an exact reason except that “these things happen to all different models.” A new instrument panel has been ordered.
2.) The coolant tank was replaced. They said that the problems with the coolant tank and the failed instrument panel were 2 separate issues. “There was no corrosion on the sensor pins, nor was there any evidence of coolant on the wires.” I asked if the new tank was sealed so that the problem would not happen again…..”we never know if they fixed the problem with the tank.”
3.) The work order now specifies in black & white that coolant was found around the sensor pins …as per gearhead’s suggestion.
Oh, and by the way, they put in another new EGR valve today…this is the 2nd replacement. The first one was in Nov ’04 at 37,200 miles.
Loaner car was a gas 05 VW Jetta, loaded. The only 2 items that made me drool were the fanny warmer seats and satellite radio. Sure could use the fanny warmer up here in Maine…
So, that’s the story so far. I will certainly post some news after the next appointment.
Thanks again for ALL your help. I look forward to your comments on today’s news.

 

[compu_85]

Sorry, I have to butt in on number 1.

The instrument cluster does not control the door locks, unless somehow it confused the CAN bus, and that confused the central convienence computer?

The reason the cluster failed is because coolant got on to the board and corroded it. I would pull the cluster yourself and look for corrosion in the harness. Also, pull the knee pannell covers, and the bottom dash cover, and look for coolant around on the fuse / relays / wires. See if they are sticky.

-J

 

[whitedog]

Sad post here and I apologize if I offend.

I am assuming that Carol is a female. I am also assuming that she is being treated with poor service because of this. My cynical thinking is that they are trying to appease her until she is out of warranty. Trying to pull the wool over her eyes and make her believe that the problem isn't as serious as we all believe.

My suggestion is to contact HermTDi and pay him to look for the things that would indicate Coolant migration. From reading the posts, it appears that Carol isn't willing to do this for whatever reason - no problem with that, just stating my opinion based on what I have read here. So I think that she should get Herm to look at it and show her what she needs to show the dealer to prove that it is, in fact, a coolant migration problem.

 

[Carol in Maine]

Hello, Here is an update. The instrument cluster was replaced on Friday. It did not solve the problem. The service dept is calling VW today to find out if they have any suggestions.
Carol

 

[compu_85]

Carol...

Thanks for the update. Sorry this is being so long and drawn out for ya Hopefully the dealer will give you a new main wireing harness...

-J

 

[mtltdi]

This is exactly why I disconneted my connector and jumpered the pins with a spare fuse that I had lying around.

 

[Borborygmi]

It's hard to believe they would replace the coolant reservior and try to claim it is a separate problem. The wiring harnesses that are involved have to be replaced. This is a well known problem. If you can't get some promise that the problem will be resolved, you should bring it to the attention of the Attorney General in your State. Many States have a consumer protection program for product defects.

If you don't get some assurances from the dealer that the problem is understood and will be corrected completely you might as well assume you are getting stonewalled. VWOA needs to take over the resolution of the problem.

You would think this would be a big embarrassment, but it seems to keep going on when it could be corrected cheaply by a sacrificial pigtail that would block the coolant. VW deserves no mercy on this issue. It is an intentional defect calculated to wreak havoc with the car after the warranty is expired.

There is no reason for this crap. Whatever happened to visually inspecting the coolant level.

 

[compu_85]

The coolant level does not always drop below the minimum when this happens! The connector must be inspected.

-J

 

[gearhead]

Do you have a picture of your setup? Great idea BTW.

This is exactly why I disconneted my connector and jumpered the pins with a spare fuse that I had lying around.

 

[compu_85]

Just make the weep hole. I'd want to be allerted if the coolant level got too low.

If you really want do do this... just bridge the pins with a resister (I've read that a regualr ole piece of wire works too)

-J

 

[Carol in Maine]

Car was serviced for the 4th time last Wednesday, Feb 8. I was told to bring the car back on that day as the “instrument cluster” malfunctioned while in the shop after being installed.
Since having the instrument cluster installed, the car has been driven approx. 500 miles. There has been no malfunctioning of the speedometer, odometer nor trip meter. The only problem that continued was the “whining” noise from the door locks.

At last weeks appt., the service advisor checked for ground wire problems and found none. They checked the instrument cluster during a road test with the computer plugged into the dash and found no problems.
When I asked why the instrument cluster failed after installation, they stated "perhaps it needed to adjust itself” or something to that effect.

They replaced the driver's side door lock, door component & door panel trim to cure the “whining” noise.
I was told that all repairs during the 4 visits were unrelated to each other.
I now have a 12,000 or 12 month warranty on the new EGR valve, coolant tank, instrument cluster and door lock.
Yesterday, the car officially came out of warranty as I passed the 50,000 mark.
Carol in Maine