Coolant glow plugs issue

h2oskibum

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Location
West coast
TDI
1996 Passat
Would be a lot simpler, easier, more optimal of course to change a few numbers in the tune to make it work how you want and never have to think about it or hack in extra wires 😁
Yes it would, are the parameters adjustable with vcds or does one need a deeper knowledge and set of tools?
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
Yes it would, are the parameters adjustable with vcds or does one need a deeper knowledge and set of tools?
just has to be changed in the tune. there's no adaptation for coolant glow plugs to alter the behavior
 

h2oskibum

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Location
West coast
TDI
1996 Passat
just has to be changed in the tune. there's no adaptation for coolant glow plugs to alter the behavior
Well that is something I have yet to dabble in. Although tuning is something I have interest in but wouldn't know where to begin. I would imagine the learning curve is somewhat steep. Always up for a challenge, and I do like swapping engines into things they were never available in so it's a skill set I'd benefit from. Advice is welcome on that as well.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
well, you are very likely totally capable of doing it yourself.. just takes a lot of effort and time, i think, just to get some of the basics figured out... back when i first started, i barely knew anything.... took me a lot of time to figure out just some of the simplest things, even with having a background in computer programming. i've spent a VAST amount of time on it all since then.... feel like i have things pretty well figured out, but always learning more.. always testing :) one thing to be aware of, is it's very easy to think you're doing things right, barking up the right tree, when in fact you're wayyyy off base... trust me lol. and its very time intensive with so many variables to do all the testing/logging if you really want things "right".

i've never tried to work on the early black-case msa12 ecu's. i'd suggest getting a silver case FA/GQ/JB ecu and a chip burner, then download edcsuite and start googling... or.... farm it out :p
 

alanack

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2022
Location
Rhode Island
TDI
1998 Jetta
Mine come on all the time. Its pretty obvious when the voltage drops to 11.9 volts, combined with glowplug afterglow you can hear it load the engine.

Mine seem to kick off between coolant temp 85-105*f
According to my scangauge ii
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
Mine come on all the time. Its pretty obvious when the voltage drops to 11.9 volts, combined with glowplug afterglow you can hear it load the engine.

Mine seem to kick off between coolant temp 85-105*f
According to my scangauge ii
you sure about that? the tune/maps won't have them come on essentially unless IAT is <0C which would be pretty rare in new england.. or maybe your IAT sensor is reading low... unless the tune is non-stock (have yet to see a tune that changes the default behavior)
 

h2oskibum

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Location
West coast
TDI
1996 Passat
i've never tried to work on the early black-case msa12 ecu's. i'd suggest getting a silver case FA/GQ/JB ecu and a chip burner, then download edcsuite and start googling... or.... farm it out :p
I have the GQ with a Malone tune in it. Bought the tune shortly after getting the B4 and I was still soaking up knowledge from this site. Clearly the knowledge soak is never over, lol. I may just have to dive into the deep end, my son has a 97B4 and I have a Synchro wagon that I will be dropping a tdi into some day as well as my 96B4 that is the subject of this thread. As usual great information and I appreciate the sharing of knowledge.
 

alanack

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2022
Location
Rhode Island
TDI
1998 Jetta
you sure about that? the tune/maps won't have them come on essentially unless IAT is <0C which would be pretty rare in new england.. or maybe your IAT sensor is reading low... unless the tune is non-stock (have yet to see a tune that changes the default behavior)
Its been below freezing for the past month for the most part. I leave work around midnight so its usually in the teens or 20s and occasionally single digits (Fahrenheit)
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
Its been below freezing for the past month for the most part. I leave work around midnight so its usually in the teens or 20s and occasionally single digits (Fahrenheit)
you should log 011-001-007 a commute :) if intercooler etc is working well, your IATs might be low enough then
 

alanack

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2022
Location
Rhode Island
TDI
1998 Jetta
you should log 011-001-007 a commute :) if intercooler etc is working well, your IATs might be low enough then
On a cold start the IAT will be pretty close to ambient temp.

I think IAT kicks them on and Water temp kicks them off.

If i drive a mile or 2 thats enough to warm the car up.

Watching the coolant temp on the scangauge it warms the car quick.

In my opinion the stock cluster gauge is basically an idiot light that lies to you
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
On a cold start the IAT will be pretty close to ambient temp.

I think IAT kicks them on and Water temp kicks them off.

If i drive a mile or 2 thats enough to warm the car up.

Watching the coolant temp on the scangauge it warms the car quick.

In my opinion the stock cluster gauge is basically an idiot light that lies to you
right, the cluster gauge is an idiot gage. the coolant sensor is two sensors in one, one for cluster (which does idiot buffering), and one for ecu, which the tune uses, and what scangauge would be showing..

its not that IAT kicks them on and coolant kicks them off - it's a mapping, using both values, and exactly as i posted above :)

IAT is also used to change other things in the tune, like timing, boost, n75. if IAT or coolant temp sensor isn't reading correctly for the conditions, then the tune won't work as it's supposed to. might be detrimental, or in some cases, might possible help.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, MA. USA
TDI
2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700
F.W.I.W.: My coolant glow plugs in my 1Zs and AHUs seemed to ignore outside air temp as a trigger for activation. Once the coolant temp was sufficiently high the heaters were all off and it made no difference what the air temp was.
Now that was old-school monitoring with a 12 volt test lamp in parallel with the heaters.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
F.W.I.W.: My coolant glow plugs in my 1Zs and AHUs seemed to ignore outside air temp as a trigger for activation. Once the coolant temp was sufficiently high the heaters were all off and it made no difference what the air temp was.
Now that was old-school monitoring with a 12 volt test lamp in parallel with the heaters.
yes, exactly, thats why the mapping is with IAT + coolant temp. at ~79C coolant for example, IAT temps would have to be -20C for them to come on. air conditions that most likely nobody ever sees
 

alanack

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2022
Location
Rhode Island
TDI
1998 Jetta
yes, exactly, thats why the mapping is with IAT + coolant temp. at ~79C coolant for example, IAT temps would have to be -20C for them to come on. air conditions that most likely nobody ever sees
It was -5 last year when i started my car one day in January. Man that was cold.

Brakes, steering and clutch were are screwed up it was that cold.

These VP pumps dont seem to care. Car fired right up...
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, MA. USA
TDI
2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700
...temps would have to be -20C for them to come on.
That's a mere -4F. Not uncommon at all here in central MA.
Well, not 25 years ago when I had B4s and A3s, was still curious about the 'new' diesel engine from VW, and was leaving for work at 05:30.
The supplemental coolant heaters were installed in the supply side water flow to the heater core specifically for cabin heat as an aid for windshield defrost capacity so as to meet a federal requirement.
Not for 'timing'. Not for 'tune'. Windshield defrost.
<edit> Oh, and the coolant heaters would also be active when air temps were well above the -20C/-4F level provided the coolant temp was still low. <end>
 

Starion_slider

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Location
CT.
TDI
1996 B4 sedan
My relay did the melt mode probably 5-6 years ago so i removed the wire cut it back and attached it to a maxi fuse holder and just ran it directly to the other terminal. I figured the relay portion was still working fine but now it had clean solid power connection. I never bothered to monitor or test it or any of the glow plugs but I figured if it melted the connection its definitely working and has a draw so it’s probably fine. Has over 450k on it and its my everyday daily . Its always been slow to warm up just idling but it will make some heat. Basically by the first exit when I get on highway its all the way up to 190 on gauge and heat will melt your face.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, MA. USA
TDI
2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700
That improves the connection at the glow plug terminals, but doesn't address the issue of poor connection at the fuse on the load side of the control relay.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
This is how I kept my relays from melting, eliminated the push on plug
i've done that too. iirc the alh plugs will take a m5x.10 die to convert them to ring terminal connection. reason i did that was for my AHU cars, the alh coolant plugs were a good bit cheaper
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
They'll take an 8-32 die as well, for y'all with an imperial tap kit, and I find a Kepps nut makes for an extra-tight connection:

 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
My relay melted a few years back, probably a GP fault, it stunk very badly, I haven't done anything with it yet since the B3V isn't often driven in the winter and so it's not critical.

The nice thing is the GP's for the coolant system heat are the same as those used for the ignition on the old IDI engines, so they aren't expensive.

The controller....now that's another story, I'm sure they're NLA.

Steve
 
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