Cool piston tech

[Zak99b5]

im aware, just pointing out how a conglomerate like bosch can be petty. so no doubt the others are like this too

Not sure there is a patent on dimpling anything. Maybe the specific pattern Shysters of Air use is patented, but not the general concept.

 

[turbobrick240]

Let's not forget that there's a whole world of diesel engines outside of passenger vehicles. Even if there was some big strange conspiracy to keep these miracle pistons out of passenger cars, industry as a whole would jump all over an 8%, 20%, 50% whatever increase in fuel efficiency.

 

[lemoncurd]

they actually did it.

 

[adjat84th]

I don't think there was any doubt that it would run. Will be interesting to see the results.

 

[lemoncurd]

I don't think there was any doubt that it would run. Will be interesting to see the results.

was more hesitant about them actually putting the pistons in. because it had been some months since they said "next month"

 

[Zak99b5]

Doesn't sound any quieter than what's normal. The skinny old white guy with the beard was going on and on about how quiet those pistons made a diesel in an earlier video.

 

[adjat84th]

Doesn't sound any quieter than what's normal. The skinny old white guy with the beard was going on and on about how quiet those pistons made a diesel in an earlier video.

The EA288 has fairly low compression already, that and the two pilot injections makes a very quiet operation. I wonder how much compression drop there is with the dimpling.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

I think the car is deleted, not sure if straight pipe or to muffler. But at idle it sounds to me like a non deleted engine.

 

[turbobrick240]

I'd rather see some video of the pistons actually going into the engine than just the car starting.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I will consider these kinds of things when they arrive in production vehicles. I see ads all the time on new miracle engines and such. For the most part you never see them make it to a production vehicle. Fun to read about but have little expectation they will ever make it into a vehicle that is mass produced and out for sale.

 

[Boosty]

I watched the vids linked in this thread and was reminded of the aftermarket heads sold for 2 stroke dirt bikes that had been dimpled, increasing power and etc as alleged in these vids, however this 2 stroke shenanigans I recall was decades ago. If it works I'm all for it, a lifetime lasting 20 percent power or efficiency boost is worthwhile in my book.

 

[dieseldonato]

I watched the vids linked in this thread and was reminded of the aftermarket heads sold for 2 stroke dirt bikes that had been dimpled, increasing power and etc as alleged in these vids, however this 2 stroke shenanigans I recall was decades ago. If it works I'm all for it, a lifetime lasting 20 percent power or efficiency boost is worthwhile in my book.

None of this is "new" it's been around the block time and time again, and never gains any real traction.

 

[oilhammer]

Yep, solenoid operated port EFI was brought about in the mid-'50s from Bendix, but it wasn't until the late '60s when Bosch got a hold of it and actually made it work reliably.

I think VAG's work on the G-charger was a decades old idea before they first got it working in production in the late '80s.

 

[BEWtheDEW]

From this SAE paper it sounds like these pistons may increase both fuel efficiency and soot formation. Seems counterintuitive, but the increase in soot may be why manufacturers haven't jumped on board.

Numerical and Experimental Studies of a Novel Dimpled Stepped-Lip Piston Design on Turbulent Flow Development in a Medium-Duty Diesel Engine

Spray-wall interactions in diesel engines have a strong influence on turbulent flow evolution and mixing, which influences the engine’s thermal efficiency and pollutant-emissions behavior. Previous optical experiments and numerical investigations of a stepped-lip diesel piston bowl focused on how sp

www.sae.org

Effects of a CFD-improved dimple stepped-lip piston on thermal efficiency and emissions in a medium-duty diesel engine (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

Huh. That’s interesting. I’m sure they might’ve used different methods to counteract that (richer AF ratio, retarded valve timing, etc.). I’m optimistic about this piston tech and what it could do for diesels. It has already done that much, despite its infancy. I don’t know if Nickel-Boron would help with the soot (its used often in AR15 bolt-carriers as a way to prevent an awful amount of soot buildup), but that is a problem that would need to be fixed.

My hunch is that if it can burn fuel more efficiency, this might give room for higher-revving engines. This obviously needs to be reflected in design (such as bore and stroke, piston offset, etc,), but it would be a possibility. Maybe with lighter designs, but thats more of a material issue rather than design issue.

There is also the sad possibility of typical government becoming experts, and then they begin upping the regulation too fast. We’ve seen this with EVs and the “rush” to, despite the current market-trend and technology that is, and likely be available for the next 50+ years after, without literally breaking the bank on buyer’s wallet. Not to mention with China and their “cheap, economical, and well-built” EVs detonating on street corners. We’ll have to see where this goes, but I am hoping its for the better.

 

[BEWtheDEW]

they actually did it.

Wow

 

[turbobrick240]

Huh. That’s interesting. I’m sure they might’ve used different methods to counteract that (richer AF ratio, retarded valve timing, etc.). I’m optimistic about this piston tech and what it could do for diesels. It has already done that much, despite its infancy. I don’t know if Nickel-Boron would help with the soot (its used often in AR15 bolt-carriers as a way to prevent an awful amount of soot buildup), but that is a problem that would need to be fixed.

My hunch is that if it can burn fuel more efficiency, this might give room for higher-revving engines. This obviously needs to be reflected in design (such as bore and stroke, piston offset, etc,), but it would be a possibility. Maybe with lighter designs, but thats more of a material issue rather than design issue.

There is also the sad possibility of typical government becoming experts, and then they begin upping the regulation too fast. We’ve seen this with EVs and the “rush” to, despite the current market-trend and technology that is, and likely be available for the next 50+ years after, without literally breaking the bank on buyer’s wallet. Not to mention with China and their “cheap, economical, and well-built” EVs detonating on street corners. We’ll have to see where this goes, but I am hoping its for the better.

I got a look at the pistons used in those studies, and they have much different dimple size and arrangement than the speed of air pistons. That doesn't mean the SOA piston claims aren't mostly hot air, but those two studies aren't that useful to assess the SOA pistons.

 

[BEWtheDEW]

I got a look at the pistons used in those studies, and they have much different dimple size and arrangement than the speed of air pistons. That doesn't mean the SOA piston claims aren't mostly hot air, but those two studies aren't that useful to assess the SOA pistons.

Exactly. The placement of those would matter a ton, since thats where the heat would direct itself. Arrangement definitely matters a ton, and will affect combustion pattern, and that woot could be less of an issue if its directed in a way to where it can escape with the exhaust more efficiently.

 

[turbobrick240]

I'm quite skeptical about the claims until I see a truly neutral third party do some scientific testing. The fact that hasn't already been done is pretty telling, imo. I think that they're marketing to the Slick 50 crowd.

 

[dieseldonato]

Not new tech.... these guys have been around much longer then speed of air... and dimpled pistons, combustion chambers and intakes are not new. Circa 2005

Pistons

Even honda experimented with "dimples" and oval pistons back in the 70's for a race bike engine application.

 

[wonneber]

I’d definitely buy one, as long as it didn’t have lane assist, a TV, and in general think for itself.

My 2024 VW Atlas SEL has lane assist and does move me around on the highway a bit.
It goes crazy beeping if someone gets to close.

While I was working at Mercedes Benz corporate I got a demo drive of a hands off self drive car.
To say the least I was not comfortable riding in it.

 

[BEWtheDEW]

Not new tech.... these guys have been around much longer then speed of air... and dimpled pistons, combustion chambers and intakes are not new. Circa 2005

Pistons

Even honda experimented with "dimples" and oval pistons back in the 70's for a race bike engine application.

For a diesel, its groundbreaking. And especially making them work reliably.

 

[jmodge]

My 2024 VW Atlas SEL has lane assist and does move me around on the highway a bit.
It goes crazy beeping if someone gets to close.

While I was working at Mercedes Benz corporate I got a demo drive of a hands off self drive car.
To say the least I was not comfortable riding in it.

I don’t like doors that lock by themselves or headlights that turn on without me flipping the switch. I’m pretty sure without trying it that I would not find that desirable. My idea of technology is starting a fire with a torch instead of matches

 

[wonneber]

I don’t like doors that lock by themselves or headlights that turn on without me flipping the switch. I’m pretty sure without trying it that I would not find that desirable. My idea of technology is starting a fire with a torch instead of matches

I like the headlights.
They auto dim for on coming traffic, They adjust a bit as I go around bends in the road, and shut off automatically after 30 seconds when I lock the car.
Maybe I'm getting spoiled with new technology? Yea yea dats the ticket.

 

[atc98002]

I don’t like doors that lock by themselves or headlights that turn on without me flipping the switch.

I like both of them, but I hated that the doors unlocked when I put the car in Park (my Taos). Fortunately Carista let me change that. Don't know why VW removed the user setting for that. I am going to have to upgrade my VCDS cable to with with the newer cars, but Carista was a fast, inexpensive way to make a few quick changes when I got the car.

 

[jmodge]

I actually do own and operate an mp3 player with a Bluetooth speaker. Great for car shows or boats

 

[lemoncurd]

My 2024 VW Atlas SEL has lane assist and does move me around on the highway a bit.
It goes crazy beeping if someone gets to close.

While I was working at Mercedes Benz corporate I got a demo drive of a hands off self drive car.
To say the least I was not comfortable riding in it.

to the contrary, ive put nearly 100k miles on the comma ai openpilot self driving system largely problem free. best mod ive ever done to my car, and now i cant consider other cars which are not compatible with it lol

 

[dieseldonato]

For a diesel, its groundbreaking. And especially making them work reliably.

No, it's not. It's been around for at least 15 years for industrial diesels. Dimpling in itself had been around much, much longer then that. The only company to date that's run any version of them in a production engine is Volvo, and that's yet to be seen how long they stick with them, and also not dimples.

 

[BEWtheDEW]

No, it's not. It's been around for at least 15 years for industrial diesels. Dimpling in itself had been around much, much longer then that. The only company to date that's run any version of them in a production engine is Volvo, and that's yet to be seen how long they stick with them, and also not dimples.

I am aware that it has been in performance applications. And huh, what kind of engine did they put that in? I would like to see that data on it. It would be interesting to see.

 

[dieseldonato]

I am aware that it has been in performance applications. And huh, what kind of engine did they put that in? I would like to see that data on it. It would be interesting to see.

Technology award for wave piston design that lowers fuel consumption

The Volvo Group’s new truck engines are more fuel efficient as a result of their intelligent piston design. Waves have been added to the piston crown to improve the use of oxygen. The engineers behind the innovation have now received the Volvo Technology Award 2017.

www.volvogroup.com

Good luck getting any actual data from volvo.

 

[jmodge]

Technology award for wave piston design that lowers fuel consumption

The Volvo Group’s new truck engines are more fuel efficient as a result of their intelligent piston design. Waves have been added to the piston crown to improve the use of oxygen. The engineers behind the innovation have now received the Volvo Technology Award 2017.

www.volvogroup.com

Good luck getting any actual data from volvo.

2017 is the year I quit working on them. With the exhaust emissions problems we had economy would have been impossible, and useless to measure. But......retirement solved all those issues, easy