Considering Purchasing a 2013 Passat TDI

[kbaisley]

The issues with the warranty:

A: not much left anymore, regardless of which model/year

B: as you already mentioned, VoA doesn't like to honor their agreement

C: cars are MUCH more likely to have warrantable things break, which I think came as a surprise to them

D: parts availability is spotty, some people wait for a year or more, one guy piled up over $9k on rental cars while he waited

E: warranty or not, the car is still the same car

Fully agree. I really loved the VW product and the temptation is there, but I dont need that drama for a primary car. We're probably looking to get another used Mazda CX5 CX9 or maybe a CX3. I have to deep dive on the reliability, but the Mazda we have has been really solid and I like that the engine compartment is not buried in a ton of ****. Dont want a turbo either. The 2.5L Mazda/Ford motor seems to be pretty solid. I know the 2.0L has held up well. I can still love my MK5's and I will never get rid of two remaining, since I have a ton of service parts for them. The wifey just wants something newer and while I consider the MK5 fairly solid, I worry about sending her down the road and having an issue.

Thanks again OH, appreciate your knowledge and advice.

 

[Tom in PT]

I think OH once used the term "wallet crushing" in regards to the things that can go wrong with '12-'14 NMS Passat TDIs, if you can't diagnose and fix yourself. Hopefully post # 29 is not listing one or more of them.

 

[DCoartney]

I like Passats a lot, but there are better options than the '12-'14 with the CKRA engine. They suffer from turbo failures, repeated heater core failures, melting oil cooler housings, and occasional cracked cylinder heads. These are in addition to the usual emissions controlled diesel issues like DPF failures.

The CJAA engines are pretty robust in the Jetta, Golf, and Beetle. If you really want a Passat I'd look for a '15 with the CVCA engine.

Our 2013 Passat TDI SEL (CKRA) from 07/2020 purchase:

• Heater core failure. Check.
• Oil cooler leaking coolant. Check.
• Turbocharger failure. Double check.
• DPF failure. Check.
• Plus false AdBlue warnings leading to no-start situations. Too many to count.

 

[DCoartney]

The issues with the warranty:

A: not much left anymore, regardless of which model/year

B: as you already mentioned, VoA doesn't like to honor their agreement

C: cars are MUCH more likely to have warrantable things break, which I think came as a surprise to them

D: parts availability is spotty, some people wait for a year or more, one guy piled up over $9k on rental cars while he waited

E: warranty or not, the car is still the same car

Amen. Just got ours back after second turbocharger failed after just one month of service due to clogged DPF. Off road and diagnosed early July 2022. DPF arrived last month. Had loaners during this period, but they were not worth much to us since this was our daughter's car, and the dealers won't allow her to drive them until she is 25. She switched to a 2012 Honda Civic.

 

[seahawkdodge]

I just traded mine in on a Volvo and extended the CPO warranty until 2030.

VW spent over $14k in repairs on my car in the last month, and there wasn't much warranty left. So yeah. It was time.

 

[kbaisley]

I think OH once used the term "wallet crushing" in regards to the things that can go wrong with '12-'14 NMS Passat TDIs, if you can't diagnose and fix yourself. Hopefully post # 29 is not listing one or more of them.

I am looking forward to seeing what VW does about it, it's still under the emissions warranty and this should be covered. I still have a year and a half on the warranty but, rather part ways with it and get something else before we run into any surprises that wont be covered. "wallet crushing" LOL, I can see it. The car is going up for sale once I get the sensor issue resolved.

 

[oilhammer]

We've got a broken one abandoned here if someone is looking for a project, LOL. Actually doesn't look like too bad of a car. It does run/drive.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I wonder how many of the issues this particular engine has are related to the emissions fix. Coolant too hot causes issues with the oil cooler, head warping/cracking, heater core clogging. The turbos were always fragile, but failure may be accelerated as DPFs may become restricted/clogged sooner.

This of course doesn't account for the adblue tank issues, oil leaks, and other problems.

If I happened onto one of these I would have the ECU re-flashed to pre-fix parameters, hoping it would help. Or delete it.

 

[oilhammer]

No long term data to show if a deleted one avoids a lot (or all) of these problems. But it stands to reason it might. The CKRA has a really awful coolant control problem. I don't think any of the other CR 4cyl have their coolant temps spike up so darn high at such a rapid rate. The valve covers I've replaced on them are literally baked brittle across the back, too. You have to carefully pick the rock hard gasket material off in little pieces as it is stuck to the cylinder head, and the cam seals are brittle hard as well. That EGR flow right out of the engine and right back through the end of the head may also be part of it. The CVCA/CRUA has that, too, but perhaps they did a better job of making sure the coolant stays moving and at a more consistent regulated temperature.

But the plastic engine parts in general are a liability in pretty much every way. I don't care whose it is or what it is. Valve covers, oil filter housings, valves and housings buried in the bowels of the engine, oil pans (seriously, Volkswagen?). Just dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[eugene89us]

This is interesting to see. I guess in many ways this is on case-by-case basis. I am attest that my coolant is cooking pretty good - or at least it WAS cooking until I bought Kerma tune for it. The time will tell if that changes. I agree with plastic getting brittle in general, even without regeneration, these engines run nice and hot, and things attached to the engine block will definitely get nice and toasty and brittle after thousands of heating/cooling cycles. The oil cooler certainly leaked as well after 8 years and valve cover started to leak some about the same time. But I am also starting to see similar valve cover sweating starting on my BMW N47 diesel engine at 5 years and 92k miles. But thankfully I did not experience same level of brittleness on CKRA as Brian's example - the valve cover was leaking in the injector well and sweating good above the exhaust manifold, but the rubber seal was still malleable and the plastic was still strong. I did not test for ultimate strength, since my goal at that time was to replace the valve cover and keep moving, the old cover went to trash, never to be retrieved again. Now, with Kerma tune, everything remains in place, so regens still continue happening. I don't know how much these were calmed by the tune or how much initial warming cycle was reduced, since most of this information is proprietary to the tuner. I know EGR cycle is less aggressive, so that should help some too. They said EGR will reduce but AdBlue use will increase, I am still in the process of confirming the statement. I think the long term benefit would be a tune that will delete everything - from EGR, to DPF, to AdBlue. This will likely increase reliability of the vehicle dramatically. But I am not ready to deal with a smoky and stinky diesel, I have young kids, at least for their sake I don't.

 

[oilhammer]

If there was just a good catalyst that could be used with the delete, there would be little "smell" and smoke is just how much fueling happens. My tuned and EGR-less ALH doesn't smoke at all, and even with the exhaust dumped right under the cabin, I don't ever smell anything driving down the road. There is still the start-up puff, but that is common for most any non-DPF diesel.

Shame that CR didn't come to the VAG engines until the emission regulations required a DPF. Because the early Sprinters were pretty smooth and quiet and didn't smoke or smell either, and they only had a single-pass catalyst on them like the VE and PD TDIs. A lot of that can be easily controlled with the fueling and timing. Diesels can run WAY leaner than ANY gasoline engine can. They just won't let them, because of NOx.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I believe one of the reasons rotary pump TDIs last so long is that they run pretty cool compared to both gasoline engine cars and later diesels with emissions controls. At 20 years and 466K miles I still have the orignal radiator, heater core, and all but one of the coolant hoses on my Wagon. And I bet, because the heat/cool cycles are less extreme, it helps reduce seals failing and the resulting oil leaks. Fuel and vacuum hoses last a long time, too.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

Once issue is when regening the temps for EGT1 is around 1000F-1200F.

Even in AZ summer going on the freeway EGT1 temp is around 850F-960F depending on the load.

Even after regening or freeway driving i let the car cool down by ideling and let the EGT down.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Those EGT temperatures are pretty common on my ALH. 650-850 on level at 75-80 MPH, 1100+ on hills. But coolant temp never get that high. I've done 30 minute track sessions in summer in a highly modified ALH and not had coolant get hot enough to turn the fans on.

 

[Dalon]

I wonder how many of the issues this particular engine has are related to the emissions fix. Coolant too hot causes issues with the oil cooler, head warping/cracking, heater core clogging. The turbos were always fragile, but failure may be accelerated as DPFs may become restricted/clogged sooner.

This of course doesn't account for the adblue tank issues, oil leaks, and other problems.

If I happened onto one of these I would have the ECU re-flashed to pre-fix parameters, hoping it would help. Or delete it.

I’m going to try and log coolant temps on mine this spring. Doesn’t have the EGR/DPF anymore so might be worth knowing to compare the data and such. It will have a 2260 at the time and be stage 4 so data will be skewed to a degree but I’d imagine coolant temps wouldn’t really be affected much at cruising speeds compared to a stock turbo/tune.

 

[kbaisley]

But the plastic engine parts in general are a liability in pretty much every way. I don't care whose it is or what it is. Valve covers, oil filter housings, valves and housings buried in the bowels of the engine, oil pans (seriously, Volkswagen?). Just dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I am glad I stopped dealer wrenching German cars when I did (Late 80's early 90's) I would be scared to touch 3/4's of the engines now. I am assuming anything you R&R, you would have to assume it would need to replace. More wallet crushing pain. We use to joke about placing vaseline sample dispenser on the service desk counter for customers back then, couldn't imagine it now. I know on the MK5 TDI's I have, I got them from the auction cheap and replaced all of those plastic coolant pieces, timing belt and dual mass, door harness during the first go thru. I have no idea on the extent of the plastic on this one (CKRA), I did see the oil cooler and low and behold, those leak. As you mentioned, valve covers. Back in the day, when I wrenched, the Germans would damn near pass their cars down thru the family. 200K was not unrealistic. Now days, lol. Planned obsolescence.

Agree on the plastic. Ancillary note, a lot of the cars I am looking at (Japanese cars - auction) are front end impacts. Over half had plastic intakes that got damaged and sucked in plastic bending valves. Explained a lot to me on why some of these were totaled out.

 

[kbaisley]

I think the long term benefit would be a tune that will delete everything - from EGR, to DPF, to AdBlue.

That's what I was considering when I got this car too, strictly for off road use ;-). Had a friend that did it with his 2013 an resolved a lot of the problems that he had with the car. Just get nervous plus I dont feel like wrench on daily drivers at this point in life.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

MKIV TDIs ('99.5 - '03 for ALH, BEW 'till '06) are both durable and easy to work on. I've maintained a bunch of these cars over the last 20 years and once you understand them they're pretty simple.

My dad complained bitterly in the early 70s about how cars were getting to difficult to work on. I've often thought of how he would have been frustrated by cars today. But in some ways they're easier than the early emission-controlled vehicles. And they for certain require less attention, and last a lot longer. The CKRA engine is one of several VW engines that don't share that reputation, sadly.

 

[oilhammer]

A lot of things benefit from the learning provided by time and use. If you make something long enough, and do not make radical changes based on engineers wanting to insure they have a job and not really improving anything, you can make it pretty good even if it was a turd at the beginning. A good example of that is GM's old 60 degree V6 engine. That lump debuted in the X-body cars in 1980 (Chevrolet Citation, Pontiac Phoenix, etc.) in a carburetted 2.8L trim. It was a piece of crap. But GM had spent so much money on its development, the bean counters insisted it be kept. So over the years, it evolved into a decent engine family, and finally bowed out in 2005 (they still built them in China for a while longer). So while the early ones were helpful in sending a lot of those cars straight to the crusher, the later ones will easily still be running along just fine as the rest of the lackluster GM box falls to pieces around it.

The CKRA is sort of like that, only if they stopped at about 1982. It never really got a chance to evolve, and they kinda started over with the 2015 engines, which may or may not end up having all their own set of problems (but so far seem decent.... but no evolution/improvements sadly for us).

The ALH is kind of like the Toyota UZ V8s, though. It was a home run on the very first pitch of the very first at-bat of the very first day of the season.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

People marvel that the cars I drive daily all have well over a quarter million miles on them. At 297K my B4 Passat is pretty much all original except for wear items, save an injection pump replacement sometime in its life. And it's still a nice drive and easily gets 50 MPG.

 

[kbaisley]

People marvel that the cars I drive daily all have well over a quarter million miles on them. At 297K my B4 Passat is pretty much all original except for wear items, save an injection pump replacement sometime in its life. And it's still a nice drive and easily gets 50 MPG.

That's a beautiful thing. I still daily drive my MK5 Jetta TDI, but I only have a 140K or so on it, it will break in soon I think ;-)

 

[eugene89us]

That's a beautiful thing. I still daily drive my MK5 Jetta TDI, but I only have a 140K or so on it, it will break in soon I think ;-)

I think there was a typo. There you go, fixed it for you. LOL.

 

[kbaisley]

I think there was a typo. There you go, fixed it for you. LOL.

MK5's are cars that go 400K easy with typical maintenance. The B7 Passat, not so much.

 

[buffa98]

MK5's are cars that go 400K easy with typical maintenance. The B7 Passat, not so much.

I guess I’m lucky,2013 purchased oct of 13 with 740 miles on it, heater core replaced under warranty at 70k, one nox sensor at 132k, still returning 49 mpg.

 

[oilhammer]

So it has covered 400k? That's awesome!

 

[Twitchytoes]

The big Lexus is a nice car for sure.

I'd steer clear of the CKRA Passat unless you can get one really cheap that is already broken and fix it up yourself (and be ready for it to break again).

So far the CVCA engine seems better, that is 2015 only.

As a CKRA owner, what major issues should I be on the lookout for past 130k? I already have the valve cover leak, so got that covered I'll be fixing that sometime soonish... Plan to delete eventually, currently at 55.9g ash load. I have read about the turbo issues but don't believe I'm seeing any symptoms. Car was built in 02/14.

 

[AverageAndy]

I'm at 148,500 miles and beyond regular maintenance, for me, I've had to replace #1 and #4 injectors at separate times.

 

[Twitchytoes]

I'm at 148,500 miles and beyond regular maintenance, for me, I've had to replace #1 and #4 injectors at separate times.

I'm on my third full set of injectors since getting the car at 80k miles. Have roughly 136k.

 

[Lex Tdi]

at 240k (deleted around 100k i think... before the warrenty was over) and never had an injector or turbo issue on my 2013, two timing belt changes and everything has been fine, same with dsg, no issues. Only time it left me standard was the alterntor died out of the blue a couple of years back. I would atke it cross country and not worry at all. I would go ahead and delete now, only thing you are doing is runing coolant and heater core/raditors with excessive and hotter regens. I had more problems from 80-100k than i did for the next 140k miles, hence my rule that warrenty are worthless if the design and parts suck to start with.

 

[Twitchytoes]

at 240k (deleted around 100k i think... before the warrenty was over) and never had an injector or turbo issue on my 2013, two timing belt changes and everything has been fine, same with dsg, no issues. Only time it left me standard was the alterntor died out of the blue a couple of years back. I would atke it cross country and not worry at all. I would go ahead and delete now, only thing you are doing is runing coolant and heater core/raditors with excessive and hotter regens. I had more problems from 80-100k than i did for the next 140k miles, hence my rule that warrenty are worthless if the design and parts suck to start with.

Funding is what has prevented me from deleting now, my logic being that if something fails and deleting is similar or lesser pricing, it's time to delete now. Otherwise, wait until funding is a bit less tight. I just recently replaced the battery in mine with a 95aH out of a Touareg, I believe my battery may have been the original and just now showing issues... Only thing I'm chasing now is a random stutter.