Comparing brakes

[Jimmybid]

I’m looking at new brakes and rotors and I’m finding 288mm and 280mm rotors and brakes I’d prefer painted calipers most of the ones I’m finding fit 288mm rotors but most the rotors I’m finding at 280mm is one better I’m gonna be on wider tires and I’m looking for the best braking are the slightly bigger better looking for all opinions
288mm

OEM Brake Kit Front (288x25) & Rear (232x9) - VW / Mk4 Golf / Jetta 1.8T / VR6

Complete OEM Size brake kit. Replace Front and Rear Rotors and Pads for your VW Mk4 Golf | Jetta 1.8T | VR6

www.urotuning.com

280mm

VW Brake Kit - Zimmermann KIT-478427KT45

VW Brake Kit - Zimmermann KIT-478427KT45

www.fcpeuro.com

 

[Nuje]

Assuming you're on stock brakes for your 2002 TDI, take a look at the front brake pads on your 288mm link (from urotuning) - they're the wrong shape and won't fit your calipers (1.8t and VR6 came with "big brakes" - different spindle and caliper design).

Problem solved.

 

[braddies]

Assuming you're on stock brakes for your 2002 TDI, take a look at the front brake pads on your 288mm link (from urotuning) - they're the wrong shape and won't fit your calipers (1.8t and VR6 came with "big brakes" - different spindle and caliper design).

Problem solved.

If you're going to upgrade the spindle for bigger brakes might as well throw on Audi TT spindles so you can go with 312mm rotors.

With TT spindles you can go 288 with a 1.8t caliper or 312mm with a TT caliper

 

[Jimmybid]

I’m replacing both front knuckles would now be a good time to go bigger? Will a mk1 tt knuckle fit with no problems on regular control arms? Will I be able to fit these bigger brakes inside a 15in lbw

 

[braddies]

I’m replacing both front knuckles would now be a good time to go bigger? Will a mk1 tt knuckle fit with no problems on regular control arms? Will I be able to fit these bigger brakes inside a 15in lbw

Yes.. The mk1 TT knuckle fits fine on mk4 control arms (and struts) as long as you use a mk4 ball joint. With the 288 rotors and 1.8t calipers it cleared the factory 15 inch steelies and I only had to grind down the excess off the 3 ball joint studs a 1/4 inch or so to clear the inside of the wheel. You can also use the factory mk4 sway bar this way.

Here's the thing, if you swap in TT control arms too you gain a whole bunch of adjustable camber and better geometry, but you'd need to swap over to TT struts and sway bar.

 

[braddies]

There used to be a great write up over on myturbodisel.com for this swap but I don't see it there anymore. But basically the TT subframe bushings are better (stiffer), the control arm bushings are stiffer, the steering rack is a faster ratio, and the fastest way for a complete suspension refresh is to find a TT at a junkyard drop the subframe with steering rack, control arms, spindles, sway bar, brakes and and struts, refresh any rubber components and then swap the whole thing onto the mk4 and get an alignment.

If your spindle swap is just for brakes I think the vr6/1.8t knuckle should be all you need though

 

[Jimmybid]

I’m interested in the tt knuckles and hubs but I can’t find a set new or reman for even close to the same price I think I’ll go in the direction when I have the money to do all of it I’m having a really hard time finding front calipers for 280mm rotors tho ik it’s the pads more so than the brakes themselves that matters is it a good idea to try oreillys?

 

[Jimmybid]

Oh the 1.8t knuckles are the same that’s why I was getting so much **** of eBay when I searched mk1 tt I’ll see if I can find them for a good price

 

[Jimmybid]

How do these look

Shopping

www.autoshack.com

 

[braddies]

280 are stock on the tdi, ya the 288 are only a little bigger but there's a lot more surface area/contact area between the pad and rotors.
Now that you mention it, if you pull a set of spindles from a junkyard already set up for the TT axles to fit, which use different hubs than most mk4s (pressed into the wheel bearing) maybe swapping the TT axles axles and flanges onto the tdi would work with a TT hub? Pretty sure it works with vr6 axles and flanges on tdi.
Whatever you're swapping could probably get a new wheel bearing
They seem to sell decent rotors, the primo ones had a coating on them and it's hasn't rusted yet except for where the pads rub

 

[Jimmybid]

How do these look

Shopping

www.autoshack.com

So these say they’re 1.8t/vr6, are they? can I get these with stock everything else and run the 288s and bigger calipers or will I need something else I’d much rather buy a complete hub, bearing and knuckle assembly

 

[Nuje]

The ones you linked to are NOT "big brake" spindles - they're the same as came stock on TDIs.
The stock spindles have little arms cast as part of the spindle on which the caliper slides; the "big brake" ones just have bolt holes to which the brake pad "carrier" attaches...and then the caliper attaches to that carrier as well.

Stock / standard front brake setup (FS3) on top; "big brake" (FN3) below.

 

[Jimmybid]

Awesome super helpful picture any recommendations where I could pick some up preferably with the hubs and bearings

 

[Jimmybid]

How do these look?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/front-wheel-bearing-housing-assembly-right/1j0407256ah~a/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA14WdBhD8ARIsANao07gjszKa4_MqHNTSaFzc9arDDP0Y3N3RckpCYQRvF7HN9VPIIiH1iPoaAqDjEALw_wcB

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/front-wheel-bearing-housing-assembly-left/1j0407255ah~a/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA14WdBhD8ARIsANao07jWyDJ5Mdc-Aek1fZe24SJUz7GA0W9APoA1tcuGZFjiv4ZKcsaM_HMaAlmgEALw_wcB

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Front calipers rarely wear out on these cars. I still have the originals on my wagon at 463K miles. You do need to pull, clean, and lubricate the guide pins periodically, and the boots can get soft with age. If you need them they're here: https://www.idparts.com/brake-caliper-front-left-1k0615123d-220575-p-775.html

Complete knuckles are available, too.

And if you see a lifted silver Golf running around Northampton, that's my son.

 

[Jimmybid]

Awesome I’ll have to keep an eye out for him. I’m now leaning towards the bigger brakes if those were the right hubs do you have a link to your gti complete knuckles?

 

[braddies]

Wheel bearings aren't that bad to do on the car, the harbor freight wheel bearing puller set works great, just need to pop the ball joint out and/or tie rod to pull the CV axle out, an impact wrench works wonders on the axle nut.

If your bearings are good the cheapest easiest route would probably be 280mm rotors, high temp grill paint for the calipers and some good pads. There's probably more gains to be had with the right pad compound than going up to 288.
0.02¢

 

[Nuje]

Yeah - that was my thought, too. It's your money, but the $1000+ (parts only) you'll spend on new knuckles, calipers, rotors, pads, etc. upsizing the brakes is pretty tough to notice in almost any driving situation. I put them on one of my cars (got them relatively cheap at a scrap yard) and found them to be a good solid "meh" - no worse, no better. I'd have many alternative uses for that $1000+ before I spent it on bigger brakes for these cars.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Awesome I’ll have to keep an eye out for him. I’m now leaning towards the bigger brakes if those were the right hubs do you have a link to your gti complete knuckles?

We're diesel only, so no GTI knuckles. There are upgrade kits out there, however.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeah, I think the big brakes are mostly a cosmetic thing. Though many probably wouldn't admit that. You're adding both unsprung and rotational mass, so it's probably a net negative performance wise for 90% of the people who do it.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Having driven TDIs on the track I can say that brakes aren't a strong suit on these cars. But for street driving, especially with stock size tires, I've never worried about them. I do feel I'm due for new calipers after 20 years and 460K miles. All still original, and I feel the rears in particular are getting weak.

 

[braddies]

Having driven TDIs on the track I can say that brakes aren't a strong suit on these cars. But for street driving, especially with stock size tires, I've never worried about them. I do feel I'm due for new calipers after 20 years and 460K miles. All still original, and I feel the rears in particular are getting weak.

Do ya think the stock tdis might have some type of an advantage with the lightweight brakes and less unsprung weight?

 

[turbobrick240]

Do ya think the stock tdis might have some type of an advantage with the lightweight brakes and less unsprung weight?

I'm interested to hear IBW's opinion too, but I'd say yes. How many people are out there tracking a 90 HP TDI these days anyhow? Might as well get a miati and have some fun.

 

[braddies]

For $1000 I'd keep stock brakes and get a limited slip diff

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I'm interested to hear IBW's opinion too, but I'd say yes. How many people are out there tracking a 90 HP TDI these days anyhow? Might as well get a miati and have some fun.

Funny, when I decided IBW was too old to track (broken wheel hub convinced me) I bought an NA Miata. The TDI was definitely more fun. Of course it had 185 HP, not 90, at that time. Here's a pic from its last track day at Lime Rock.

And in track mode (coilovers, lightweight battery, rear seat and spare removed) it was light. GL with crank windows and no sunroof helps.

 

[turbobrick240]

My favorite cousin drives a NA Miata down in Austin. I love driving that car when I go down to visit her. Totally different experience than my 200 HP golf TDI was, but every bit as fun(also a pleasure to work on). My uncle gave it to her 10 years ago after removing the aftermarket intercooled turbo kit he had installed on it several years prior. I drove it once in that configuration and it was a blast. He doesn't track his cars, but is very much an enthusiast- many VW buses, dune buggy, 912, corvair, boxster, and numerous funky vehicles have graced his driveway. Now his fun car is a tuned, turbo Saturn sky redline.