Commonrail: Need more fuel

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
"BHP" estimates vs WHP actual readings. In the USA its rare to find a dyno that reads BHP. Calculated losses are likely what makes up the difference.
WHP is still estimated. Depends on the dyno software and calculation methods, it just translates the drag into losses.
Nothing is ever "accurate" it's just a best estimation.

On my old stage of tune I did 203 crank, 194 wheels according to one dyno. Another dyno I did 194 crank
Who's to say.


Stock injectors are the limit after fuelling, won't get much/any gain (perhaps aside from low pressure in the rail). Apparently they flow to 400bhp but in reality maybe a completely healthy new fresh engine may get 270.
 

YukonLT

Veteran Member - TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Location
N/A
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 6MT
Jon,

Any news on injector upgrades? Any idea of the difference in power the stock injectors could support with CP3 vs stock HPFP?
I'd love to hear that upgraded injectors were available for the CR, I'd sign right up to get a set. Really interested to see what I would be able to do with this CP3 set up now.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
I read paper of the new v6 that will come out with 280 hp stock, gtd2060 charger and they explain that the only thing changed on the injector assembly was a throttle plate where they enlarged a hole by 20% to increase the output of the injector with equal nozzle flow rate

Antoher possible upgrade will be pump and rail of the new biturbo 2.0 tdi. Runs up to 2500 bar. If current stock injectors (1800 bar) can handle this pressure there will be plenty of flow. as explained here
 
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turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I'd love to hear that upgraded injectors were available for the CR, I'd sign right up to get a set. Really interested to see what I would be able to do with this CP3 set up now.
I think you'd also want a large turbo along the lines of a gtb2260 to take advantage of larger piezo sticks. Les mentioned the other day that he has had some piezo sticks custom enlarged by an injector specialist shop. I believe he is still getting them dialed in. He also has an awd compound turbo common rail in the works, that should be pretty amazing.
 

YukonLT

Veteran Member - TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Location
N/A
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 6MT
I think you'd also want a large turbo along the lines of a gtb2260 to take advantage of larger piezo sticks. Les mentioned the other day that he has had some piezo sticks custom enlarged by an injector specialist shop. I believe he is still getting them dialed in. He also has an awd compound turbo common rail in the works, that should be pretty amazing.
Yes, a 2260 would be in the plan as well :D
 

Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
CPC nozzles are working on CR injectors but difficult to get some answer from them.
From what i've seen their products for PD work better than bosio nozzles

The injectors 03n130277 from 240HP passat , anybody knows if they flow more fuel?
My Leon 170HP CR has 03L130885X
 
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Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
For more power yes at high rpm, but midrange torque will still ve limited by the pump dispkacement
 

Mk7karl

New member
Joined
May 9, 2023
Location
Derby
TDI
Gtd
You can try a couple of simple mods. Meister's case pressure increase allows a slight increase, maybe a few hundred RPM more, before the pump drops pressure. You have to modify the "overflow" or "cascade" valve to give more internal case pressure within the pump. Simply increasing the feed pressure (stronger auxiliary pump) does nothing as Ryan mentioned as the cascade valve will still maintain 62psi.
The cascade valve is a simple spring and plunger relief valve, factory set at 62 psi.

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An modified and adjustable cascade valve to increase the pressure will allow a few hundred RPM more stable rail pressure, but is not the only mod for this pump.

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Further increases can be had by increasing the metering valve flow. All the injector fuel passes through these triangular ports in the piston within the metering valve:

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Triangular ports x 3
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You can see the difference in the larger CP4.2 metering valve ports:

Sure, swap metering valves or carefully open up the larger, lower end of the triangle.
These mods together will offer slightly more stable output and rail pressure at higher RPM's, together with Rub's increased duty cycle on the metering valve.
Rub, please share your pump part number. Our American Passat has a slightly longer stroke eccentric shaft, which you may already have?
Meister, all CP4 series pumps have a dual lobe eccentric shaft, offering two strokes per shaft revolution, if that helps answer your question?
All the best!
Andrew
How much did you up the fuel pressure by?
 
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