Colt Cam Dyno numbers!

[TDI Power]

Just like promised here are the numbers with the stage one Colt Cam on my A3 Jetta.

Blue - This test was done only with- cam, PP520, and no muffler, everything was left stock with boost at 12 psi. 114 whp & 220 ft/lb

Red - This was done with all my mods- cam, PP520, no muffler, K&N, Upsolute LI, and P-Box, boost was at 18 psi. 135 whp & 293 ft/lb

These numbers surprised me for an A3 that is rated 75hp at the wheels. This is solid proof the cam is doing more than expected. In combination with the injectors and exhaust only(blue run), I got just about 40hp and 85 ft/lb increase at the wheels over a stock A3!

 

[LanduytG]

TDI POWER
All the torque is at the bottom end. It would be nice if the torque curve was higher.

Greg

 

[GoFaster]

Hang on a second there, before we get TOO excited. The cam isn't the only difference between these charts. You were running 12 psi boost for the first run and 18 psi for the second. I can run 18 psi without requiring a camshaft to do it!

What's really needed is a comparison where the camshaft is the ONLY difference ...

Nevertheless, 135hp to the wheels from an A3 is mighty healthy.

 

[TDI Power]

No, the cam is not the only diff, like I said, injectors + exhaust and cam is the first run. The second is with cam also, plus all other mods.

12 psi was with my stock ecu, 18 with upsolute. I did not say the cam gave me 6psi boost.

 

[speedR]

I think what GoFaster means is that there should be a comparison with the cam and sans cam. For example your first run could've been with the UP chip, no muffler,etc with the stock cam while the second run would be with the colt cam.

It's difficult to get an exact idea of what kind of power the colt cam is making when the dyno runs are on different boost levels.

 

[TDI Power]

Yes, before and after does make sense. I never got the before done though, I just did not think this regrind would be so effective so I thought it would be a waste of time.

Now however I know it works great, from real life driving and dyno numbers, but as my stock cam was reground I have no stock left.

I look at it this way, injectors add about 15whp and 40ft/lb, not sure about exhaust. This would give me 90hp and 175ft/lb at the wheels in an A3 that is all stock but the injectors. Now add a cam and get 114hp and 220ft/lb at the wheels, add a chip and get even more.

The two runs are not a comparison to each other. The second run I did to see how much power I get with all my mods.

 

[tongsli]

[ QUOTE ]
This is solid proof the cam is doing more than expected.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see any evidence of this statement at all. It's impossible to conclude what you said based upon those dynos and your setup.

 

[oldpoopie]

we truly do need before and after dyno numbers to draw any sort of conclusion.

 

[DanCarNut]

OK, I kinda agree that a run with all the mods and stock cam, then a run with the cam to see how much it directly affects power output would be nice. BUT are the detractors saying 135 whp & 293 ft/lb (that's NEARLY 300 lb/ft) is attainable with the mods listed alone?!

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

Before everyone lines up to drop a load on this man's car, mods, dyno and efforts... I think we can all agree these numbers are pretty much unprecedented for an A3 here on this forum. Agreed, the experiment was not conducted properly to isolate the cam as the only variable but... The circumstances (as noted before, he has no stock cam to work with) prevented him from conducting a pure test. This is only a starting snippet for data (inferential, anecdotal or otherwise) on this cam and I think it's safe to say, Luk or not, soon TDI Power will join the ranks of the "I Need a Clutch Club"...

Congrats on the great numbers and we look forward to more controlled and definitive dynos in the future...

P.S. I'm jealous... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Davin]

[ QUOTE ]

I look at it this way, injectors add about 15whp and 40ft/lb, not sure about exhaust. This would give me 90hp and 175ft/lb at the wheels in an A3 that is all stock but the injectors. Now add a cam and get 114hp and 220ft/lb at the wheels, add a chip and get even more.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hold on there... I agree that based solely on the numbers and no stock-cam dyno you probably are getting a bit out of the cam.

BUT. You're assuming that a stock A3 gives 75 whp and 135 wtq. I would think that that's pretty low. It's pretty well accepted that VW's stock published numbers are underrated. My ALH when stock dynoed at 87 whp and 151 wtq. So... the cam is giving you some, but probably not as much as you're assuming.

 

[runonbeer]

Hold on there (I just wanted to say that because everyone else did)
What did this do for smoke? I myself am an A3 modder with a major smoke problem. She makes good power but the smoke is blacker than the paint on the car and thicker than a door @ WOT.

 

[mojogoes]

Runonbeer u have alot of mods that give u fuel and even though u have a custom chip(don't know)your car is never going to b at its max potential it needs to b done live on the rollers like mine does i have 12 chips at differant stages of the mods i've done and every one except the first superchip from 90hp to 120hp is a compromise.And at the end of the day he's going to turn the fueling down or tell u to get a bigger turbo+intercooler if u still have your stanard vnt 1549 (that i dont know)

 

[mycruiseagent]

A Few A4's (mine included)have dyno'ed PP520's only at just about 110 HP - A3's are a bit less IIRC. So based on your base line I'd guess you've got between 5 and 10 HP out of the cam. Like others are saying - there needs to be a good back to back, no cam - cam set of runs to be a little more definitive. Otherwise - great numbers from an A3!

MCA

 

[KERMA]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I kinda agree that a run with all the mods and stock cam, then a run with the cam to see how much it directly affects power output would be nice. BUT are the detractors saying 135 whp & 293 ft/lb (that's NEARLY 300 lb/ft) is attainable with the mods listed alone?!

[/ QUOTE ]

GREAT peak torque number!

I really don't think a cam is a power mod prima facie. It is more of a "support" mod. You will get lower EGT and less smoke if it's correctly tuned. Think about all the air filters and intakes and other airflow mods we've tested that by themselves did jack for output. The cam is the same deal. The right cam will get more air in there but in order to capitalize on the air for more power you need fuel. A modified cam might actually HURT performance on an otherwise stock car.

 

[mojogoes]

Sorry guys do i have to say newbie here as if i don't know anything.I remember a few years ago when u guy's would talk all year about putting a vent behind the i/c for how much hp -1 and then u guys over the water were doubting the 15 hp tdi-rs's manifold was giving and his Cam,injectors,How does 245+whp grab u (MOJOGOES THATS IMPOSSIBLE)Thanks for listening Gentlemen

 

[TDI Power]

[ QUOTE ]
This is only a starting snippet for data (inferential, anecdotal or otherwise) on this cam and I think it's safe to say, Luk or not, soon TDI Power will join the ranks of the "I Need a Clutch Club"...


[/ QUOTE ]
I have to say the VR6 stock setup is holding just great, no slippage yet. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif


[ QUOTE ]
BUT. You're assuming that a stock A3 gives 75 whp and 135 wtq. I would think that that's pretty low. It's pretty well accepted that VW's stock published numbers are underrated. My ALH when stock dynoed at 87 whp and 151 wtq. So... the cam is giving you some, but probably not as much as you're assuming.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not assuming. It is a known fact the A3 90hp is at the crank and A4 at the wheels, so with about 15% loses the whp is about 75, give or take a few. I even saw a stock A3 dyno on the internet long time ago, but I cant remember where it was... and that was around the 75whp figure and 135 trq.

 

[TDI Power]

Runonbeer, hold it right there!(just thought I'd join the trend) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

The smoke did go down quite a bit, especially with 18-20 psi boost. Will all my mods under normal driving I cant see any smoke behind me, only when I floor it in high rpms then smoke is visible but not as bad as before.

Kerma, I agree with you, this is more like a support mod and you will see more gain with it if you are already somehow moded. I thought this is what people want, more power when all their mods are maxed out.
If you are stock there are cheaper options that will give more power per Dollar, so its not a first and only upgrade people should consider but when you have everything and still want more, why not?

 

[Peter Cheuk]

My stock A3 put 87 HP to the wheels when I baselined it for the failed GIAC chips. The place I dyno'd it did not have any way to check the RPM's so I did not get torque numbers.

Nevertheless, those are great numbers!

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

My bad... Didn't read your profile... (sounds of forehead thunking fill the background)...

 

[mojogoes]

Tdi power is your car heavily smokey, B-cos a 150hp only has 236lbs and hire presure so all that fuel must b going some where /images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[TDI Power]

There is smoke when I floor it, some haze when I look in the mirror, best visible at night. Under normal driving the smoke has pretty much dissapeared, in my mirror at least, day or night.

On the dyno, I have to say it was very smokey in the shop from my car /images/graemlins/blush.gif and smelly, but you got to love that diesel smell. Mind you, the trucks pulling 1800 ft/lb of torque pumped out 10 times more smoke than mine did /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Stealth TDI]

Peter,

[ QUOTE ]
My stock A3 put 87 HP to the wheels when I baselined it for the failed GIAC chips. The place I dyno'd it did not have any way to check the RPM's so I did not get torque numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you still have a printout of this dyno? Or a spreadsheet? I can plot the curve in my spreadsheet and calculate torque for you. Besides, I'd like another stock TDI dyno plot. I have one from D'Nardo (I think) that has 71-whp and 139-ft/lbs. I also have one from Jon Bartlett, who's always had a very strong TDI, pulling 81-whp and 158-ft/lbs.

Take Care,

Scott

 

[Mark@MaloneTuning]

Can I see a dyno chart showing fair comparison between stock vs. colt cam? i.e. equal boost and other mods in both dynos.

My TDI head is currently disassembled so I'd like to get the cam done if it works. I'm probably 30-45 minutes away from the Colt shop.

 

[TDI Power]

Quadcomm, check your PM.

 

[smack]

Any better evidence or updates yet?

 

[TDI Power]

The only evidence I kind of have at this time is my broken tranny! /images/graemlins/frown.gif Guess I reached the limit of our 5 speed transmissions. This shocked me, I dont drive my car that hard, dont do burnouts, dont autox, no drag strips, I guess something had to go when I put out more than two times the stock torque. This is going to be one expensive fix. My car been sitting motionless for two weeks now, not sure what to do. If I fix it with same oem parts, it will brake again. Will have to do some more research if there is a way to make the tranny stronger.

This kind of put a hold on the cam project and also since the interest level in this product is so low, it is not worth my time and money to continue I think, at least for now. My priority is my tranny and unless I can beef it up, there is no point of having more power with other cam stages.

 

[oldpoopie]

what exactly broke on the tranny? I assume it was the diff coming apart as is typical. Just get a peloquin or quaiffe diff and you'll be fine.

 

[TDI Power]

Not sure what excactly broke as I haven't taken it appart yet. My first gear is gone, second makes terrible knocking noise, third is better than second but still knocks, fourth and fifth seem ok. Neutral with clutch engaged knocks too.

This is a good opportunity for a peloquin, so I ordered one and will put it in, however I fear the diff was not the weak spot.

 

[MikeZ]

To much torque at low end ,, you have to push the torque to 2200rpm. The tranny will have less stress on it.

Me below 2000rpm i was braking my CV all the time.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

MIkeZ

[ QUOTE ]
The only evidence I kind of have at this time is my broken tranny! /images/graemlins/frown.gif Guess I reached the limit of our 5 speed transmissions. This shocked me, I dont drive my car that hard, dont do burnouts, dont autox, no drag strips, I guess something had to go when I put out more than two times the stock torque. This is going to be one expensive fix. My car been sitting motionless for two weeks now, not sure what to do. If I fix it with same oem parts, it will brake again. Will have to do some more research if there is a way to make the tranny stronger.

This kind of put a hold on the cam project and also since the interest level in this product is so low, it is not worth my time and money to continue I think, at least for now. My priority is my tranny and unless I can beef it up, there is no point of having more power with other cam stages.

[/ QUOTE ]