Cold Weather Trouble

[TDI2000Zim]

I thought this was battery drain, but this is obviously a fuel/urea issue.

I go skiing for a few days, return home, and had difficulty starting the car. THEN, later that day, the car refuses to start (the engine cranks, but it refuses to turn on).

The fuel couldn't have gelled up, for I kept the garage over 32F, and left the tank FULL. But the urea tank was closest to the garage door (battleships like this one occupy their entire bearth).

What do you guys think?

Needless to say I'm fuming at the incompetent VW service manager who tells me to bring in the car the next morning (I have to spend my own AAA to do the dirty Warranty work). The car is 2 months old, and it is the VW service manager who should be doing the tow service coordination, not me.

 

[Moltenburn]

I think this sounds like the adblue tank. I am almost waiting for my tank to freeze and sh it the bed. I think there must be a batch of ****e adblue tanks floating out there. I have read that when they malfunction aka freeze the car will become hard to start. I bet if you hit that area with a hair dryer for half hour and cycle the ignition a few times it will fire up. Disturbing what these tanks are doing, but alas they will be covered by warranty if not recall. I am in the belief of not worrying about it till it happens and then let vwoa eat the bill. Also yes your service manager sucks nuts.

 

[TDI2000Zim]

I think this sounds like the adblue tank. I am almost waiting for my tank to freeze and sh it the bed. I think there must be a batch of ****e adblue tanks floating out there. I have read that when they malfunction aka freeze the car will become hard to start. I bet if you hit that area with a hair dryer for half hour and cycle the ignition a few times it will fire up. Disturbing what these tanks are doing, but alas they will be covered by warranty if not recall. I am in the belief of not worrying about it till it happens and then let vwoa eat the bill. Also yes your service manager sucks nuts.

My wife is going to have a fit when I borrow her blow dryer.

Makes me think that there is a design opportunity here...

 

[tdiatlast]

Doesn't VW Roadside Service provide a free tow under the warranty?

 

[smoav8r]

Doesn't VW Roadside Service provide a free tow under the warranty?

Yep! 3 years or 36,000 miles.

 

[kydsid]

battleship lol, mine is the smallest car I've ever owned.

on topic, the ad blue tank is heated afaik so it might have malfunctioned

 

[Mbmaring]

Just call the tow in and have it billed to your dealer and added to repair order I think it comes with the new car warrantee. That is what I did tow truck just hauled it in and VW paid him

 

[Jayg]

Just call the tow in and have it billed to your dealer and added to repair order I think it comes with the new car warrantee. That is what I did tow truck just hauled it in and VW paid him

OR as mentioned before just use the FREE VW roadside assistance and don't create more work for yourself than you have to.


OP: For my own knowledge did you put any other additives in the fuel tank as well?

 

[ChadS99SVT]

Why do you guys think it's the adblue?

I have been in sub zero temps and most recently a week straight of 5 to 15 degree back to back nights.

No troubles with starting. Coolant temps were as low as 10 degrees

I think it's something else going on personally.

 

[phlfly]

I think it's fuel, you got bad fuel at whenever station near ski resort

 

[shelbydog25]

Im thinking glow plug or fuel. other posts indicate the Adblue has an inline heater, so freezing shouldn't be an issue, but .....Please keep us posted on what dealer findings were.. any DTC codes?

 

[oilhammer]

The DEF system won't cause the car to not start, unless it is empty and the warning has been on and it never was refilled. I too think you have something else going on.

 

[andy7079]

AdBlue is designed to freeze. Below 12F is freezes. The 32.5% solution is designed such that the Urea and Water freeze at the same rate. When you start the car a heater in the tank will turn on to melt the solution.

 

[compu_85]

GeekDrew and I / VeeDubTDI both left our Passats parked outside in single digit temps overnight yesterday and had no problems the next morning.

-J

 

[oilhammer]

GeekDrew and I / VeeDubTDI both left our Passats parked outside in single digit temps overnight yesterday and had no problems the next morning.

-J

Spooning Passats, eh?

 

[compu_85]

I made a video

 

[VeeDubTDI]

GeekDrew and I / VeeDubTDI both left our Passats parked outside in single digit temps overnight yesterday and had no problems the next morning.

-J

Correction: we left our cars parked outside in negative double-digit temps. It was -13F that night and 0F when we started the cars in the morning.

And for those of you who insist on discussing the wind chill temperatures, even though windchill has nothing to do with cold starts other than making the engine cool off more quickly when you park the car, it was something like -30F.

As oilhammer said, frozen AdBlue will not impact cold weather starting at all.

 

[compu_85]

I hadn't even considered that the adblue was frozen after we started.

I did notice the periodic clicking sound that I assume is the dosing valve was occurring at a much slower pace.

 

[TDI2000Zim]

I thought this was battery drain, but this is obviously a fuel/urea issue.

I go skiing for a few days, return home, and had difficulty starting the car. THEN, later that day, the car refuses to start (the engine cranks, but it refuses to turn on).

The fuel couldn't have gelled up, for I kept the garage over 32F, and left the tank FULL. But the urea tank was closest to the garage door (battleships like this one occupy their entire bearth).

What do you guys think?

Needless to say I'm fuming at the incompetent VW service manager who tells me to bring in the car the next morning (I have to spend my own AAA to do the dirty Warranty work). The car is 2 months old, and it is the VW service manager who should be doing the tow service coordination, not me.

VW Service stinks.

Let's reprise the events for the IQ-challenged readers who did not understand my original post:

I fly out to take 12 days of ski vacation, and leave my car in my home garage with its tank full (refueled at a large gas station with constant diesel customers).

During that time, night temperatures average 28F.

However, my garage never got colder than 32F, though near the garage door it probably got close (next to the Passat's rear end, where the adblue tank resides).

I fly back home from vacation, and turned the Passat on that morning (but it hessitated twice during start up). I drove the car for 45 minutes.

6 hours later, I tried to turn on the car again, and that is when it refused to turn on altogether. The starter cranks, but no ignition.
​

I contacted the Dealer, but they want me to bring in the car. Nice...

This morning I called VW Road Side Assistance number in the owner's manual, and they called in the tow truck. That was 9:40 AM today.

The Dealer's VW Service Manager never calls back to tell me what is going on.

So I call the Dealer at 4:30 PM. The Service Manager, who had kept silent until now, tells me the sad story that they are contacting VW to get technical help, and that VW hasn't answered yet, and that I probably have to wait until the middle of next week to get the car fixed.

I agree with Moltenburn, this is probably a bad adblue tank. I'll ask the VW Service Manager about this tomorrow, when I go to pick up the loan car, but I won't hold my breath, nor will I get in the way of a fool.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

So you accuse others of being IQ challenged and then stick to your AdBlue theory?

If a problem in the AdBlue system had prevented a shutdown, the MFI would have told you so.

AdBlue has nothing to do with engine operation (or lack thereof) other than a blocked start due to an empty tank (with a very clear warning to the driver well in advance).

Last point: AdBlue doesn't freeze until well below 32F. If your garage didn't get below freezing, then...

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I think this sounds like the adblue tank. I am almost waiting for my tank to freeze and sh it the bed. I think there must be a batch of ****e adblue tanks floating out there. I have read that when they malfunction aka freeze the car will become hard to start.

Link to these articles that you've read?

The old Sprinters had a problem with this but their systems were early and the victims of poor engineering. The no-starts on these Sprinters were caused by the computer. I'm sure Oilhammer can provide more info, as he has dealt with this issue directly.

 

[unixb0y]

So I call the Dealer at 4:30 PM. The Service Manager, who had kept silent until now, tells me the sad story that they are contacting VW to get technical help, and that VW hasn't answered yet, and that I probably have to wait until the middle of next week to get the car fixed.

Sound like the dealer doesn't know whats going on and they they may need to fly some parts in from europe.

VW has some supply chain issues, after all they are manufacturing a lot of cars now globally. Heck even Apple has supply issues when they release a new product. A car has FAR more parts then an electronic gizmo.

I don't see how you feel slighted by the service department. They are doing their best.

DEF isn't used at startup. Sounds like something else.

 

[Jayg]

Sound like the dealer doesn't know whats going on and they they may need to fly some parts in from europe.

VW has some supply chain issues, after all they are manufacturing a lot of cars now globally. Heck even Apple has supply issues when they release a new product. A car has FAR more parts then an electronic gizmo.

I don't see how you feel slighted by the service department. They are doing their best.

DEF isn't used at startup. Sounds like something else.

They will probably replace the turbo preemptively.

 

[oilhammer]

.

Let's reprise the events for the IQ-challenged readers who did not understand my original post:

I agree with Moltenburn, this is probably a bad adblue tank..

Um, what? Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

 

[tdiatlast]

So, TDI2000Zim: Any updates?

 

[TDI2000Zim]

So, TDI2000Zim: Any updates?

Waiting, and waiting, and waiting...

BTW, the loaner Jetta feels small and cheap.

And waiting...

 

[740GLE]

did they test the battery? if it was weak from the factory, and sitting that long might have been the nail in the coffin.

was it even able to turn the engine over or just go clicky clickly when trying to start it?

 

[TDI2000Zim]

They never called me back, so I called them today.

Their reply: The car will be ready late tomorrow.

Diagnosis: FUEL PUMP REPLACEMENT
​

I've been driving a VW diesel car since the summer of 2000.

 

[Softrockrenegade]

HPFP or lift pump ?

 

[TDI2000Zim]

HPFP or lift pump ?

They didn't say.

Given the lack of details, hopefully it is the Lift Pump.

BTW, I lived in Howell for 5 years back in the early 90's. Nice town.