Cold Weather Design Flaw, Secret Recall from VW?

[dieseldorf]

Picked this up over at VORTEX, don't know if there is an ounce of truth to it but thought it would appease those of you stuck in your diesels on the side of the road:

[ QUOTE ]
This past weekend my 1999.5 (A4) Jetta TDI had it's fuel gel. This has happened before until I started using the Standyne additive. However, my wife forgot to add the additive at the last fill up, and this happened to coincide with a cold spell. (hmmm...amazing /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)


I had the car towed to the dealer and they thawed it out and replaced the the fuel sender under a secret warranty. My car has 207,000km and is thus well out of any normal warranties (even the recent MAF warranty extension).




According to the dealer, the fuel sender will be replaced with the latest version for anybody who complains (ie their fuel gels). No complaint - no replacement. VW Canada covered the part (C$87) and labour but not the tow. There is a check valve in earlier versions of the fuel sender that is prone to blockage when the fuel starts gelling.



Bad part numbers: 1J0919183C, 1J0919183D
Good part number: 1J0919183H

Hope this helps some people out.


Allan.






[/ QUOTE ]

IMPEX needs $48 for this part.

 

[VelvetFoot]

Maybe this is only Canada as well...
This is what I did last year, on my dime.

 

[NYTDI]

I think velvetfoot has examined several of the updated vs. older design pickups/senders maybe he'll chime in re what he found or link to his thread.

A local member here found that he eliminated his fuel line bubbles by reengineering/replacing the check valve in his 2000 Golf. I actually have a duplicate part (check valve) he gave me (used on hanggliders IIRC) but never got around to doing the install.

 

[dieseldorf]

VF, you said you just drilled out some part? how difficult is access?

 

[NYTDI]

Doh! Hi Karl. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[dieselgus]

It is very easy. Pull sender, remove the ball/checkvelve from the bottom of it ( there to shut off fuel in the case of a rollover... mind you, these things will run for a while on what is in the line/filter!). Now, you will see the actual fuel pickup tube... and the tiny hole at the end of it (think cheap clear plastic BIC pen..) all you have to do is enlarge the hole at the end to the same size as the rest of the tube. You can reinstall the shutoff assembly, or leave it off (Mine was left off, BTW). What happens is that when the fuel starts to cloud/gel, the pickup hole is waaayy too small to pull decent suction, therefore fuel starvation conditions exist. Actually, mine formed a golfball sized, well, ball, at the end once. Quick whack with some tools, presto. No more problems. I believe that after 2001 MY they changed the pickup ass'y for the CDN ones to have a bigger hole at the end, and no fuel shutoff valve (it's a ball in a cage). This is all that I remember about it, as it was over a year ago on a car that I don't even have anymore.

Gus

 

[VelvetFoot]

The fuel pickup that I got said that it was for Canada on the box. I believe it was just a remanufactured unit. The only thing different between that and the one I took out was that there was no check valve in the supply side. Same diameter as I recall.

I did buy another fuel pickup that still had the check valve but had a redesigned sender arm. I never did return it. It is on sale for a good price .

 

[Karmann-diesel]

I had this same problem on my 2000 Jetta last winter. My car "gelled" up at least 5 different times even though the fuel was heavily treated with Powerservice & then Powerservice Artic Express. I eventually tracked the problem down to the check valve in the supply port on the fuel gauge sender. I removed the sender & drilled out the check valve & it has not had any problems since, not even during this most recent -12 F cold snap. If you have your car in winter conditions like this I would recommed doing this modification. If you ever have your fuel treated with Powerservice or like Anti-gel additive & it still happens I would immediately suspect the check valve.

 

[STRANGETDI]

Can someone post pics and steps to do this procedure?

 

[Karmann-diesel]

Start by removing the fuel sending unit from the fuel tank. Flip up the rear passenger side seat & lift up the carpeting. Remove the metal plate held in with 3 screws. Push the little quick-disconnects on the two fuel lines & pull them off the sender. Pull the electrical connector off the sender. Unthread the big plastic locking ring & remove it. Then you can wiggle the fuel sender out of the tank.

Now you can push 3 plastic tabs in & remove the top of the sender like so:

Now find the outlet of the sender which on mine was marked with a (V) and an arrow pointing away from the sender:

Notice the plastic triangle in the outlet. This is part of the check valve. There is also a little rubber flapper to close the valve & a small spring. I was able to use a 11/64" drill & a thin punch type tool to drill all of this out. Make sure you get all the little bits & pieces out. Having some compressed air is handy to blow out the little bits. Then I reassembled the sender & left the return side check valve alone. Since doing this my fuel starvation problem has not returned nor have I noticed any bad side-effects.

 

[VelvetFoot]

I think it may be ideal to have little fuel in the tank.
I too have had no problems with the Canadian version (which is the same thing).

 

[dieselt]

great pics. have had some hard starts, but no go problems, yet... my 2000 jetta gets night time heat in garage from my house heat oil burner chimney heat recovery unit. 68F with oat at -10F. had a few cel's when car is left out at work, but it starts and runs at 75mph down 95 from augusta without a hitch. copied your pics and diescription to hard drive. thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[dieseldorf]

pretty cool!

 

[Karmann-diesel]

For some reason my car was fine for two Maine winters & then it developed the problem. It might just be a hit or miss thing. I am pretty sure Frank M over in NH had the same problem with his new beetle & I think a few other club members have had this problem come up. After having my car stall in traffic 5 different times in sub-zero weather I was glad to get to this one figured out & fixed. It stalled one time in the passing lane on Tewkey's bridge in Portland during commute time. Talk about anxiety.

 

[kurtzie]

I'd like to add my comments :
Third winter on my 2002 Jetta in upstate NY. Last friday in the cold snap it died. Wait 15 min, it starts, drives a few miles and dies again. Etc. That time I cursed myself as my Stanadyne was in the trunk instead of in the tank, and I was using no-name fuel from the Indian reservation. Fuel filter was only 4 days and 200 miles old when all of this happened. So when it warmed up, I drove off the rest of the tank and then filled up with good fuel and Stanadyne. I was told I could have had water in the fuel, which could have ruined the new filter, so I got another filter as a spare. Tonite coming home from work at -5 F, the motor dies again. Wait a few minutes and restart. Etc. Knowing that it would be hours to get home this way, if I even get home, I decided <font color="black"> </font> to change filters. (I had a bottle of fuel with me to prefill the filter.) So I pulled into somebodies drive with a yard light and change the filter at -5F. That was a treat! You cant believe how stiff fuel hoses can be at -5. Anyway, I restarted and got about 500 yards before dying again.

What I noticed when changing the filter was that there was a strong vacuum in the line. I assumed I had ice in a low spot in the line until reading this thread. Car is in a heated shop, and I will be on the phone with dealer tomorrow AM. We'll see what secret warranty I get. I'll let you know.

 

[STRANGETDI]

Thanks for posting the pics.

 

[kurtzie]

Further to my post above:

Friday morning the dealer Svc clerk is helpful, but.... After describing the trouble, he admits they have two other diesels there for same problem and no clue of how to fix. I told him what I found here, and he was appreciative, said he would look for that. For my problem, he suggested I call VWOA, as he knew of no bulletin on this. Also that he is backed up on repairs for 10 days. My car is in tow garage 30 miles away, so no reason to go to the dealership.

So I called VWOA. After some research, I got a call back. No, no, and no. We never heard of your problem, there is no different pickup for cold climates, and we wouldnt fix under warranty. (62K miles)

So now it may be fix-it-yourself.

My love affair with my TDI is going South fast.

 

[dieseldorf]

[ QUOTE ]
So I called VWOA. After some research, I got a call back. No, no, and no. We never heard of your problem, there is no different pickup for cold climates, and we wouldnt fix under warranty.

[/ QUOTE ]


kurtzie, the only time you would contact VWoA on something like this would be to further enrage yourself...there's just no other reason. Of course they've never heard of it nor are they aware that TDis can be a handful when the weather turns cold. Don't forget who we are dealing with. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

It's stuff like this that is best left to the owner to deal with. That way you will know it's been handled properly. /images/graemlins/grin.gif That new part can be had for $48 from IMPEX. Yeah, it would be nice if "they" would cover it under warranty but $48 is a small price to pay, IMO, for getting this sorted out and preventing "them" from fouling up something else on the car. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[kurtzie]

Dieseldorf: I appreciate your comments. questions:

1. Everybody here says drill out the hole. You say get a new one. Which is better? I can do either. If a new one is the better solution, I can do today.

2. Car is in the shop, and still supposed to be about 0 degrees today. OK to add about 2 gals of Kerosene to the 10Gals still in the tank to be sure I get home?

 

[Frank M]

[ QUOTE ]
Tonite coming home from work at -5 F, the motor dies again. Wait a few minutes and restart. Etc. Knowing that it would be hours to get home this way, if I even get home, I decided <font color="black"> </font> to change filters. (I had a bottle of fuel with me to prefill the filter.) So I pulled into somebodies drive with a yard light and change the filter at -5F. That was a treat! You cant believe how stiff fuel hoses can be at -5. Anyway, I restarted and got about 500 yards before dying again.

What I noticed when changing the filter was that there was a strong vacuum in the line. I assumed I had ice in a low spot in the line until reading this thread. Car is in a heated shop, and I will be on the phone with dealer tomorrow AM. We'll see what secret warranty I get. I'll let you know.

[/ QUOTE ]
EXACT symptons I had before I replaced my sender last winter !!

 

[dieseldorf]

[ QUOTE ]

1. Everybody here says drill out the hole. You say get a new one. Which is better? I can do either. If a new one is the better solution, I can do today.

2. Car is in the shop, and still supposed to be about 0 degrees today. OK to add about 2 gals of Kerosene to the 10Gals still in the tank to be sure I get home?



[/ QUOTE ]

Well, being a purist and a fanatic ( /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif ), I would purchase the new unit when I place my next order from IMPEX. I suspect drilling will provide an identical result from what the others say. I suspect VelvetFoot may be able to verify this...I don't have any direct experience with it.


Yeah, I guess you can add some kerosene. I don't believe it will guarantee trouble-free cold weather operation but it sure will thin out the fuel. The problem is that icing or gelling can occur at multiple points within the FI system. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

May those balmy breezes caress your TDi in the not-too-distant future!

 

[Frank M]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad part numbers: 1J0919183C, 1J0919183D
Good part number: 1J0919183H

[/ QUOTE ]


when I replaced my sender last January VW sold me the D number.. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Karmann-diesel]

Here is a little pitch for the fix-it-yourself method. If you look closely at the picture of the check valve you can see this white plastic triangle. That is part of the sender & thats where the check valve attaches to. When you order the "H" version sender it comes without the check valve, but the plastic triangle is still there, representing a restriction point in the line. I think drilling it all out would offer less restriction. How do I know? I have the original sender I drilled out working well in my car & a brand new "H" version sender in my tool box. Get an 11/64" drill bit & try to fix it yourself.

 

[Frank M]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, being a purist and a fanatic ( /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif ), I would purchase the new unit when I place my next order from IMPEX. I suspect drilling will provide an identical result from what the others say.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I stick with OEM
Have seen to many differences over the years

 

[Milehog]

Excellent timely post! I read through this last night and printed the thread. Up to that point I never had a gel problem with my 01 Jetta with 81K miles but I thought maybe I should save this. Well, drive to work this morning, -11F, car starts fine, had put in about 12 oz of power service the last fill, I drive about 38 miles of my 50 mile commute, in the passing lane and the engine dies. Luckily I'm able to get over to the right and take an exit coasting with the clutch pushed in. There was enough momentum to reach a NAPA parts stores parking lot about 1/8 mile from exit. This was at 6:35 AM store not open till 8:00 AM. I noticed there's a person in a connecting part of the store (used parts)and I get his attention. He opens the door and lets me in. Turns out I was able to purchase a bottle of Power serthvice 911 from him, from a stock set a side for company diesels. "The parts store is completely sold out of the product and most NAPA stores in Connecticut" I put about half the bottle in the tank and shook the rear of the car to mix. After a moderate amount of cranking the engine fired. This took me to work and back again. Since I added the 911 to only the tank I believe the problem was in the tank and not the filter or lines and supports everything posted in this thread. Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. I have some modifications to do this weekend /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Milehog]

Sender changed!

Opened the cover plate over the tank sending unit and sure enough P/N 1J0919183C. Called local dealer and asked parts whether there was a bulletin on the suffix’s prior to H. Got a “no” response, although person was interested in the story I related from the forum. Said he would talk to head mechanic. On checking stock he found one, and was surprised to find box labeled “for Canada”. On picking up the sender ($63) parts man relayed the head mechanics comments. Sender not the problem, lack of anti gel additive, said alot of newer 03 & 04 cars having gel problems. (This dose’nt surprise me considering Connecticut fuel isn’t conditioned for the recent Arctic temps and I’m sure a lot of owners hadn’t used treatment.) Another bazaar comment about if fueling from different stations (brands) the fuel specific gravity differs resulting in separate density layers within the tank not allowing treatment to be mixed effectively???? The actual change when well, however, the large plastic retaining nut had me scratching my head. Used a medium size channel lock opened all the way. With it was able to bear on the plastic ribs on the outside and top of the nut without clamping on the nut. Bentley CD talks to pushing down on the fuel line locking tabs when you actually push them in from the side. Oh well! hopefully I’ve experienced my first and last gelling episode. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

 

[kurtzie]

I changed mine Sat PM too. Took about an hour. Comments: 1. Removing the fuel lines. I agree: again the Bentley manual leaves something to be desired. ( I have an issue with their lack of listing fastener sizes, etc.) I didnt find anything on how to remove fuel lines, but yes, push in retaining clip at bottom of the connector. 2. To get the plastic nut off, I used 2 flat screwdrivers on opposite sides of the nut, so as not to squeeze it. Use the tabs where the cover plate screws on to bear against. I put a piece of heavy wire through the screw holes and made a loop. Used that loop as an alternate to lever against with the screwdrivers, as the distance between the tabs is too great. Cap twisted off fairly easily that way.

Fixed and running well. I was not able to push the little spring out after drilling and cleaning. I dont think it can ever give any problem, though. Now wait for -5 degrees again, for the proof.

 

[dieseldorf]

can anyone snap a few pictures BEFORE beginning disassembly so we can see what the proper connectors are on the fuel lines?

thx.

 

[saintex]

My sender was replaced under warranty without me even having a problem by a dealer in Quebec city. They said it was a known problem and did it to all tdi's that came in for service. This was 2 years ago.

 

[jasonTDI]

Why waste the money on the new part when you can fix the old for free. Hey DD yah hear me? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif Send me the cash! I could use it for other stuff!