Clutch R&R Question

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah the up and down on a hard floor is not something I can tolerate easily any more either. I swapped an engine (an ALH) at home last year and I was reminded of how much that totally sucks balls. But I was unable to have a car apart at the shop for the amount of time it was going to take me to deal with it. Hope to get a proper lift in our big building soon.
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Lying on your back, you can at least use the ground to "press" against with your body as you wrench off tight bolts. Plus I'd rather be laying under the trans and pull it from the motor onto my chest just a few inches below rather than reaching up above my shoulders. So it does have some advantages.

But the constant up & down is a chore now that I'm in my mid 50s.
I found one of the biggest time sucks to be going up and down with the lift and working around the lift uprights. For the Indiana job I built a special trans lift bar that simultaneously adjusts/holds the engine and winches the trans up and down. This by itself reduced the effort and sped up the process immensely. Also, a widowmaker bolted the block and pushing against the subframe really helps get the spacing just right for the trans to slip out and in. I still use that same bar to this day.
Another trick i use is to unbolt the exhaust coupler and unbolt the down pipe from subframe. This allows just a couple inches extra of engine movement so the trans can mate up easier.
 

dieseldonato

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Location
Us
TDI
2001 jetta
Yeah the up and down on a hard floor is not something I can tolerate easily any more either. I swapped an engine (an ALH) at home last year and I was reminded of how much that totally sucks balls. But I was unable to have a car apart at the shop for the amount of time it was going to take me to deal with it. Hope to get a proper lift in our big building soon.
I hear that, my knees are half shot. Up and down just don't happen like it used to. Putting a lift in my shop for the same reason, I'd rather push a button for up and down then get up and down myself.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Usually when I’m working on the cars in the driveway in the winter I have a forced air heater blower that I hook up to a 20lb tank of propane and blow it in me…. I’d say it takes about 50-75% of the chill out …..I believe the blower was a HF product.
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
Usually when I’m working on the cars in the driveway in the winter I have a forced air heater blower that I hook up to a 20lb tank of propane and blow it in me…. I’d say it takes about 50-75% of the chill out …..I believe the blower was a HF product.
I have one of those, but it runs on proper fuel :cool:
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB

shoebear

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon, 2005 New Beetle, 2013 Sportwagen
Usually when I’m working on the cars in the driveway in the winter I have a forced air heater blower that I hook up to a 20lb tank of propane and blow it in me…. I’d say it takes about 50-75% of the chill out …..I believe the blower was a HF product.
One of these?
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
Got the tranny out today and the new clutch installed on the engine. Ran out of daylight and my helper (son) had to go, plus I was bushed, so the tranny will go back in another day.

Most of the removal overall was uneventful, but I did run into a couple hang-ups.

Had issues getting the inner CVs off the flanges. A few solid whacks with a small sledge finally worked to free them.

I could not get the passenger side flange bolt out. Tried numerous times to seat the Allen bit, but it would just slip out with any real torque. It was at too awkward an angle with not enough room for me to tap it in, I guess. And I did not want to strip it. So I left it in, leading to….

Getting the tranny out was a struggle. I was bench pressing it down, engine held up with jack and block of wood. Right flange was hanging up on the tin separator plate and flywheel. Finally got it to clear that a bit, and the other side of the diff housing was jammed against the subframe and sway bar. What finally helped clear that was jacking the motor up—I had lowered it a bit before to get those three horizontal mount bracket bolts out. Fifth gear end was hanging very low (too low to get my body under it) and input shaft was gouging the pressure plate, but I finally got it to come down. On my arm, but not really too bad.

Oil all over the back of the engine. Zero on any clutch surface. Some of it definitely dripping from my leaking valve cover, but a few flywheel bolts had engine oil on the threads, so I ran out to Autozone who had a Fel-Pro RMS in stock to replace it. Had to let the bolts pull that into position to fully seat it. Left the plastic install tool in the seal until it just fell out on its own. I hope there's enough sealant where it mates with the oil pan.

With the tranny out, I was able to tap the 6mm Allen bit into the flange bolt, and it pulled that out. That should make reinstallation of the tranny easier.
 

shoebear

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon, 2005 New Beetle, 2013 Sportwagen
Do I need to remove the transmission side bracket? Or can I just remove the two bolts on the transmission mount and drop the trans with the bracket attached? When I did this on my New Beetle, I had to remove the bracket, but all clearances were ridiculous on that car.
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
As said in the WDYDTYMKIV thread, got the tranny back up and in. Oldest son helped. Used a jack to help lift it up and into place.

After that was in, I started putting other stuff back together. Like the starter, dogbone mount, ps line mounts, shifter & cables.

It was getting dark so I didn't want to start with the axles. So those, the battery & air cleaner, and side skirt/belly pan will go on tomorrow.
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4's and the Cummins
I grab my magnet!
All too often I grab the one for Aluminum...and when it ignores the steel bolt I get mad.

I have one or two clutches coming due, and I can't escape the idea that pulling it in from the top is going to be easiest( as in, slide it under, and pull it up). Pushing it up from the bottom is( and has been) a PITA. This way I figure I can maneuver it around the inner CV driver if it is just hanging.

Either way, do not neglect applying a wee bit of high-Moly-content glop( glop is thicker than goo ) to the input shaft splines so as to avoid fretting. And a wee bit on the contact surface of the TO bearing( that puppers wears where the fingers slide and I have a feeling is responsible for an otherwise OK bearing destroying itself when the groove gets deep enough).

Douglas
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
I have one or two clutches coming due, and I can't escape the idea that pulling it in from the top is going to be easiest( as in, slide it under, and pull it up). Pushing it up from the bottom is( and has been) a PITA. This way I figure I can maneuver it around the inner CV driver if it is just hanging.
It was decidedly inelegant using the jack and some bench pressing to get the tranny up and into position. But I don’t have an engine hoist, and my engine support bar is inaccessible to me. Lifting from above (using the slave cylinder hole and the middle horizontal mount bracket hole) would make it easier, and allow you to lift the diff up to clear the subframe.
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
Either way, do not neglect applying a wee bit of high-Moly-content glop( glop is thicker than goo ) to the input shaft splines so as to avoid fretting. And a wee bit on the contact surface of the TO bearing( that puppers wears where the fingers slide and I have a feeling is responsible for an otherwise OK bearing destroying itself when the groove gets deep enough).
I just used a light film of synthetic high temp wheel bearing grease on the input shaft splines and TO bearing. I had also put the grease supplied with the clutch kit inside the clutch disc splines and on the alignment tool, so that's there as well.

My original clutch (238k miles) looked to be in excellent shape, dmfw working fine, and no hot spots on that or the pressure plate. But the TO bearing was getting bad. Spun too easily with noise, noticeably loose, and the face had a pretty deep groove in it from the fingers. I only changed the clutch because the nozzles and tune made It slip if I wasn’t careful.
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4's and the Cummins
I had also put the grease supplied with the clutch kit inside the clutch disc splines and on the alignment tool, so that's there as well.
I put it in the shaft, that way any that gets pushed off has less chance to get spun off into the engagement zone.

Douglas
 

shoebear

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon, 2005 New Beetle, 2013 Sportwagen
It was decidedly inelegant using the jack and some bench pressing to get the tranny up and into position. But I don’t have an engine hoist, and my engine support bar is inaccessible to me. Lifting from above (using the slave cylinder hole and the middle horizontal mount bracket hole) would make it easier, and allow you to lift the diff up to clear the subframe.
I made a homemade block and tackle, suspended it from my engine support bar, and hooked the transmission, to install the clutch in the Beetle. I had a buddy handle the rope while I got under the car and twirled the transmission. It wasn't easy, but it got the job done, and I can't think of a better way.
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 2005 BEW Beetle, 2005 Jetta Wagon
I forget which TDI devotee it was but they did a similar thing with a come-along on an engine support.
it was mounted horizontally and had a pulley to turn the rope vertical. Pretty Schmart!
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Do I need to remove the transmission side bracket? Or can I just remove the two bolts on the transmission mount and drop the trans with the bracket attached? When I did this on my New Beetle, I had to remove the bracket, but all clearances were ridiculous on that car.
I always leave the bracket in place. You can just barely pop the PS line over.
Anothet trick that folks miss and is actually in the Bentley, is to thread a shift bracket bolt into the forward most hole so that it holds the clutch fork in the fully retracted position. This keeps the fork from flopping around and potentially knocking the bearing out of place.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
Do I need to remove the transmission side bracket? Or can I just remove the two bolts on the transmission mount and drop the trans with the bracket attached? When I did this on my New Beetle, I had to remove the bracket, but all clearances were ridiculous on that car.
It's one of those things where the transmission bracket doesn't get in the way at all on the way out of the car, but I have yet to figure out how to get the transmission back in with that thing still attached. Have to remove it every time before re-installing.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
thread a shift bracket bolt into the forward most hole so that it holds the clutch fork in the fully retracted position. This keeps the fork from flopping around and potentially knocking the bearing out of place.
Oh yes - most definitely do this! (Don't ask me how I know 🤦‍♂️)
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
It is
Anothet trick that folks miss and is actually in the Bentley, is to thread a shift bracket bolt into the forward most hole so that it holds the clutch fork in the fully retracted position. This keeps the fork from flopping around and potentially knocking the bearing out of place.
I did this actually. Thought I'd had a great idea, but Bentley beat me.
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
Car is on its wheels.

Got the flange in, axles on, refilled the tranny (added more than what I took out), sway bar attached, and side skirt & belly pan on.

Tomorrow I'll get the air box and battery back in.

I had to remove the axle nut on the driver side. Do I need to do the whole rigamarole of tighten it, loosen it, move car, retighten it? Or can I just torque the h3ll out of it?
 

shoebear

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon, 2005 New Beetle, 2013 Sportwagen
I had to remove the axle nut on the driver side. Do I need to do the whole rigamarole of tighten it, loosen it, move car, retighten it? Or can I just torque the h3ll out of it?
I have that internal debate every time also. But it's the axle nut! So I go through the ritual every time.
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
I have that internal debate every time also. But it's the axle nut! So I go through the ritual every time.
Welp, i popped the center cap out of the wheel before I put it on that side, so I guess I'll do all the steps.
 

Andyinchville1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, 5 sp, 226K miles
If the ball joints and subframe are not disconnected, and the car was in good alignment to begin with, I see no need to get an alignment done after the job. But wouldn't dropping the subframe require an alignment from a shop that knows how to align the subframe?

Also, VW says to always replace the bolts that hold the subframe. But they are quite beefy, and I'm not sure this is needed. Do you replace them every time?
HI,

I had a bunch of work done to my car (ball joints / tie rod ends etc) and the subframe was also dropped (to install solid bronze bushings to remove slop / high performance) and when everything went back together my car was able to be aligned without having to move the subframe at all ... maybe got lucky or the bronze bushings were so precise that everything went back together subframe wise perfectly ? maybe it would be different with the factory rubber subframe bushings? but I guess it is possible to mess with the subframe and not have to worry about an alignment shop having to mess with it again for alignment purposes ( I was really worried about that since we re used the subframe bolts already !! ( forgot to order them before the job ).

For my subframe I was more worried about reusing the subframe bolts ..... I have another set on order and I may replace one subframe bolt at a time after I get the new bolts so hopefully I won't shift the subframe when changing out the bolts .....

Andrew
 
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