Clutch quit on me

[G60ING]

Take a look at the shifter before yanking the tranmission. Its pretty easy just remove the plastic cap for the reverse switch on the shift tower.

 

[riofrio]

Take a look at the shifter before yanking the tranmission. Its pretty easy just remove the plastic cap for the reverse switch on the shift tower.

Gotcha, and inspect the spline as jsrmonster suggests?
Would be nice if that was the problem... but if it was badly worn or stripped wouldn't it then be just as difficult to get it in gear without the engine running? When the engine is not running it goes into all gears like butter.

 

[G60ING]

Gotcha, and inspect the spline as jsrmonster suggests?
Would be nice if that was the problem... but if it was badly worn or stripped wouldn't it then be just as difficult to get it in gear without the engine running? When the engine is not running it goes into all gears like butter.

inspect the spline as jsrmonster suggests? Yes

Alls I know is that it would suck to do the clutch job and then find out that its the splines. I think his suggestion was pretty good and is worth investigating before doing the tranmission workout routine.

 

[riofrio]

inspect the spline as jsrmonster suggests? Yes

Alls I know is that it would suck to do the clutch job and then find out that its the splines. I think his suggestion was pretty good and is worth investigating before doing the tranmission workout routine.

Certainly a good suggestion! I hope I didn't come off as trying to dismiss anybody's advice. I will look at this first.
Thanks for all the help! Will post back tomorrow if I get far enough tonight.

 

[riofrio]

Take a look at the shifter before yanking the tranmission. Its pretty easy just remove the plastic cap for the reverse switch on the shift tower.

Hmmm... Removing said cap doesn't really show me anything. Should I remove the shift tower instead?

 

[G60ING]

It can be somewhat difficult to remove while still installed in the car because of the sealant. You see the nut in the cup That is what holds everything to the shaft.

 

[riofrio]

hey thanks! Yeah the spline looks tip top:

What I did find was a completely broken clutch cylinder rubber boot/bellow:

At first I got excited thinking this must be the problem, but after thinking about it I'm not sure whether that's the case. I can't think of how/why a broken boot can cause the failure that I experienced. Other then letting grime in and slowly compromising the blow-by sealing in the piston, but this would result in lost brake fluid which I did not experience.

Any thoughts? I would hate to tear into the transmission at this point for nothing more than a bad slave, but on the other hand if I just order the slave by the time it gets here and I install it, another week could go by without much progress!

 

[sfierz]

Rio--your clutch failure sounds like mine a couple years ago--could not get into gear when running and could not pull out of gear. It's the clutch spring wedged in there. I am about 90% certain. That's what mine was. No problems with the slave or master. I think you will have to pull the clutch, and if it is original, hey, you got PLENTY of good life out of it.

 

[G60ING]

take a look at your brake fluid level is the level belowor equal to that of the nipple for the clutch line?

 

[Chessie]

The springs have it...

It would be nice if you didn't have to pull the tranny and replace the clutch.

But you do.

The clutch springs (or something else, the brackets that hold the spring) has broken and is sometimes binding up (preventing the clutch from not spinning) which will not allow the transmission to stop spinning. While it's spinning, you can't get it out of gear nor into another gear. This is the key symptom. When you stop the engine, you can move the gears around (because the tranny is not spinning). Start the car, no more shifty.

When you press the clutch, it is activating the master, then slave cylinders which is pressing an arm and then on the throw-out bearing which is releasing pressure on the clutch plate.

This SHOULD allow the clutch to stop spinning. However, debris is jammed between the clutch and the spinning flywheel. The clutch is doing its job. The throw-out bearing is being pressed and the the fingers are moving.

BUT, the junk in there is binding up, and sometimes freeing up (when you start the car).

A number of us have had this experience in the past with one car or another. (My experience, with symptoms exactly like yours, was with a 1971 Celica...)

The spring may scratch the pressure plate such that you need to machine it, and or replace it.

Not an impossible job, just a fairly time-consuming job that requires some lifting and swearing.

Good luck.

Chessie

 

[riofrio]

Wow thanks everyone!! Time to get in deeper and get the whole thing out tonight. The pondering over the slave cylinder set me back only a couple of hours...
I do plan to replace the pressure plate, and go with the VR6 clutch. I'll get the flywheel resurfaced locally.

btw G60ing, brake fluid level has been at the top the whole time. Sounds like clutch springs are the main suspect despite my stubbornness!

 

[jollyGreenGiant]

I'll get the flywheel resurfaced locally.

Sounds like trouble to me, don't let frugality make you repeat the job a second time.

 

[riofrio]

Sounds like trouble to me, don't let frugality make you repeat the job a second time.

Would you suggest I go with a new G60/VR6 to match the new clutch?

 

[G60ING]

Would you suggest I go with a new G60/VR6 to match the new clutch?

I personally would rather have a stock factory flywheel thats been resurfaced with the correct step (roughly 13mm) than the $320 G60/VR6 flywheel clutch combos that I've seen at ecs and mjm.

 

[riofrio]

Ok I could use a bit of help right about now.... I removed the driver's side axle, but at the transaxle flange at the transmission the CV joint basically fell apart.

The picture shows the CV housing after the innards came out. Something tells me this is not how it was supposed to come out. Was the housing (bronze part) supposed to slide out from the flange? It's really stuck in there.
Anyway, don't want to make the same mistake on the passenger side flange.... any help is appreciated!

 

[G60ING]

No easy answer. Tap it off with a hammer and either put back together yourself, take it to a driveshaft shop or replace it.

On the other side try loosening the bolts and tap with a hammer to free it uo from the output flange.

BTW this is the first time I've seen one stuck on so badly.

 

[DasTeknoViking]

Part still stuck on the flange/stub is part of the axle... It should have came out with the axle after you removed the 12 point bolts.

Mallet should get that off the flange/stub, with that many miles they don't just come off with ease. I know I just did axles on my B4 with even more miles

 

[riofrio]

Thanks for the quick reply! At least now I know how it's not supposed to come out!

 

[riofrio]

Yeah the passenger side was no problem. Took the CV housing off the driver's flange on a vice by tapping and some very light prying. Took some patience but it's off. Cleaned/degreased thoroughly and will attempt to put CV back together.

Need to replace the paper gaskets b/n flange and CV (torn). World impex has them, but I was wondering if the following from Napa would be the correct size: https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=ATM443407309_0303035973&An=0
From a web search the Napa ones seem to fit CV joints for 1985-1992 diesel VWs... would anyone know if it's the same fit for the MK3?

Slow progress but transmission is dropping tonight!

 

[kooyajerms]

If you want my original clutch slave, I can send it over to you for shipping. Obviously we are two shores apart, but might as well replace that with a good unit. (Replaced mine with a febi unit, but it wasn't the problem).

Good luck with the clutch job, let's hope it was the spring after all!

Here was my oem 220k disc, that spring was ready to go too!

 

[TonyJetta]

Need to replace the paper gaskets b/n flange and CV (torn). World impex has them, but I was wondering if the following from Napa would be the correct size: https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=ATM443407309_0303035973&An=0
From a web search the Napa ones seem to fit CV joints for 1985-1992 diesel VWs... would anyone know if it's the same fit for the MK3?

That looks like the right gasket...but I would confirm dimensions.

Tony

 

[G60ING]

If its for a later mk2 then it should fit since they had 100mm output flanges on the later mk2s (I think 1986 was the change over) I looked these up on germanautoparts and they were $5.?? each for ones that would fit. I looked them up for a corrado but you could also look them up for any mk3 manual transmission and they would all fit regardless of the engine.

 

[riofrio]

If you want my original clutch slave, I can send it over to you for shipping. Obviously we are two shores apart, but might as well replace that with a good unit. (Replaced mine with a febi unit, but it wasn't the problem).

Thanks Kooya! I would take you up on the offer but I really need to get this job finished this weekend. So I'll just order a new one along with everything else. IDparts is a 1-day ground for where I live so I'll have everything tomorrow.

 

[riofrio]

Tranny is out!

Ok, finally. Setting up the engine & trans support system took up a big chunk of time. Especially since I hadn't done it before. Here is a picture of my setup, which worked quite well:

It's the $60 Harbor Freight engine support mount, which comes with the 2 threaded rods that I used to support the engine. I also bought a $20 hand winch for the transmission which bolted right onto the bar. The tranny conveniently has 3 bolt holes / loop points through which to tie a piece of rope such that the center of mass hangs roughly in the middle, so that it dropped fairly straight and allowed me to maneuver rather easily (helps to have an assistant).

Ok I found the most annoying part of this job to be removing the transmission mount bracket. In particular, the lowest of the 3 bolts that attach the bracket to the transmission. For one, there is no room for a socket, so using a wrench took like 10 painful minutes to get all ~20 threads out. Then it got more frustrating when the bolt could not clear the actual mount. I had to pull the transmission way back to make enough room for this bolt to come out. Any guidance on how to reinstall it in a more elegant fashion would be great!

Ok ok, finally the veredict: (surprise, surprise) Bad springs! They were still in their slots, but one of them was completely loose and another one on its way. Here's some pics:

Hopefully putting everything back together this weekend.

The lower starter bolt came out in very bad shape (it was side-loaded as I was removing it). Does anyone have a part number for replacement??

 

[Chessie]

No Room for a socket..

You could try using something like this:

http://www.google.com/products/cata...=JfDwTZCDGKXW0QGv5MiUBA&sqi=2&ved=0CFwQ8gIwBA

There are other varieties besides GearWrench (like Craftsman, here:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942405000P?prdNo=7&blockNo=7&blockType=G7

When only a wrench will fit, these "ratcheting sockets" are a blessing.

However, be aware that as you unscrew a bolt (that didn't have clearance for a socket on it) you may not be able to take off the ratcheting socket if you unscrew it a lot.

Good luck,

Chessie

 

[dieseljunkie]

You could try using something like this:

http://www.google.com/products/cata...=JfDwTZCDGKXW0QGv5MiUBA&sqi=2&ved=0CFwQ8gIwBA

There are other varieties besides GearWrench (like Craftsman, here:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942405000P?prdNo=7&blockNo=7&blockType=G7

When only a wrench will fit, these "ratcheting sockets" are a blessing.

However, be aware that as you unscrew a bolt (that didn't have clearance for a socket on it) you may not be able to take off the ratcheting socket if you unscrew it a lot.

Good luck,

Chessie

Lowes had/has? a sale that started Memorial day on their Kobalt and some GearWrench tools. The GearWrenches were 50% off and may still be on sale. Their Kobalt tools are on clearance because they will be made by a different supplier and will have a different look.

 

[riofrio]

Done!

Thanks for all the invaluable help. Lots of hours and some frustration... but looking back it's not too-too bad. Just very labor intensive. And I made a new best friend, namely "scissor jack"!

Definitely drives like a different car. In addition to quick engagement, I no longer have this "jerk" in 1st through 3rd gears. It used to be that if I either gave it gas, or let of the gas pedal, it it would have a very noticeable jerk. Makes sense now that worn clutch springs can cause that.

 

[jackgreen]

glad you're back on the road,

this just happened to my car too.
first i noticed my brake light was coming on up hills and hard cornering. then my clutch stopped working. i figured my brake/clutch fluid was low. it was, so i filled it up and bled the clutch slave, etc. still no clutch.
since i had a new vr6 clutch just waiting to be installed, i decided to pull the transmission and just do the clutch.
well...when i unbolted the pressure plate a chunk of spring fell out! it was stuck between the clutch disk and pressure plate.

apparently the low fluid was just a strange coincidence.