Clutch problems

[pkhoury]

Flanges don't need to come off, just need to pull the engine forward far enough to clear the subframe. I use a come-along.

I did that, but yeah, I'm taking at least one flange off next go around. They're going to come off anyways, so I can reseal it while it's out.

 

[pkhoury]

What am I missing? I'm not sure I see the failure in the pics. I see the rubbing marks on the clutch fork. What has caused that? The throwout bearing looks intact.

Brett

Oh, I'll show you.




Those are pics of the pressure plate. I'm kinda opting for a new one at this point. I technically have a spare, but it's for an entire dual diaphragm kit. I might also get a new flywheel, because it's going to bug the everliving f*** out of me not having a timing mark on this POS Eurospec flywheel.


As you can see, the shift fork is f**ked. Catastrophic failure. The throwout bearing is bad as well, obviously. Ball pin has a dent in it, but the rest of the transmission looks a-okay.

 

[PakProtector]

Getting the trans off with both flanges on is LOTS easier if it is all out ov the car. Putting it back on that way, whilst the engine is mounted is a PITA imo...it will go in, but why pick an extry difficulty inducer. Got this upcoming on my BEW, likely down to its still-dry rear main seal assy. And one to do on the '00 which needs a timing belt also.

Douglas

 

[pkhoury]

So it appears my course of action - new flywheel with proper timing marks (since I would've had to do that anyways), new friction disc and pressure plate (which I'm not wild about doing, but already have here), rear main seal change, new clutch fork, ball pin, throwout bearing, and clutch fork spring. I'm feeling pretty confident it'll be back in order after this. On the other hand, I technically did this whole job myself last year on DSOL, with Brian Hague only assisting me with 5 speed swap wiring.

 

[P2B]

How bad is the rear main leak? If it's just seeping, leave it alone - they all do that.

 

[454k30]

I too have been told that the flange doesn't need to come off. It probably doesn't, but removing it made that transmission slide out like I was working on a RWD car - that is to say it came right off and down the way I'd hoped it would.

 

[454k30]

Hahaha yeah!

At least I'll be able to tackle the leaking rear main while I'm at it. It only lasted about 65K-ish, surprisingly. Since I gotta do that, I have no excuse not to pull the flywheel, pressure plate and friction plate now. That said, hopefully the friction plate is at least salvageable, since that clutch fork looks like $hit.

You'll never be wrong to change out that rear main seal while the transmission is out. And as for the flywheel and friction plate; you already have that all out in order to inspect/replace the main seal, so go ahead and replace the flywheel and clutch as well. This is a great time to install the G60/VR6 setup as you mentioned in another post wanting to ensure you had enough clutch for the mods you want to do.

 

[pkhoury]

How bad is the rear main leak? If it's just seeping, leave it alone - they all do that.

It actually appears it's leaking from the bottom, but I'll double check it. I've been doing 13K mile change intervals, but f**k it, I'll just get it done right and change it all out anyways. Been like 70K-ish since I last changed it, and I'm already in there, so I might as well do it and seal it back up right.

 

[pkhoury]

You'll never be wrong to change out that rear main seal while the transmission is out. And as for the flywheel and friction plate; you already have that all out in order to inspect/replace the main seal, so go ahead and replace the flywheel and clutch as well. This is a great time to install the G60/VR6 setup as you mentioned in another post wanting to ensure you had enough clutch for the mods you want to do.

I'm still not wild about using my spare dual diaphragm, but I guess it is what it is. If anything, maybe I'll find another decent pressure plate down the line to reuse my existing clutch, but on this job, I'm just going to do new everything, since I already have it here, and do the dreaded 500 mile clutch break-in.

I'm just worried about the condition of the pressure plate after much deliberation and talking to two friends about it - one, a retired Volvo/Saab professional mechanic and the other, someone trusted on this site.

 

[pkhoury]

So for an update - I talked to a local machinist who's been doing the craft over 50 years, and another friend of mine who's a mechanic, and both said my flywheel looks good. Suggested non-directional wiping with 120 grit sandpaper, scotchbrite and non-chlorinated brake cleaner, so I'll just go that route. Still using a new friction disc and pressure plate, even though my old friction disc is still okay. I'll keep it around as a spare, given that I technically have two cars with this same clutch setup, though I hope I don't have to pull the transmission on either (after this job is done) anytime soon.

Now I'm just waiting on my transmission mounting bracket, replacement rear main, and a tool to get RTV out of the tube without causing excruciating pain, and I can finish this job. And yes, squeezing out RTV causes debilitating pain. Getting a consistent bead around a whole oil pan for me is impossible, thanks to thumb arthritis I've had since I was a kid. I can usually suck it up, but some things, I have to take breaks. Guess that's this is a hobby and not my career.

 

[454k30]

I can usually suck it up, but some things, I have to take breaks. Guess that's this is a hobby and not my career.

Good to hear that the flywheel is reusable. Certainly saves the trouble of either sourcing a new one or having a machinist turn it for you.

Don't overthink the clutch break-in period. Just do normal stop and go driving. Dont ride the clutch to hold a hill, lug the engine, or go to the dyno for about 500 miles, and you'll be fine. All OEM clutches from the last 40 years were designed to be taken off of the dealer lot and just driven like a normal vehicle. Even my old 1983 Chevy truck owner manual has zero mention of clutch break-in. High performance clutches that are dramatically different in function from OEM style are different story, but we aren't discussing that application.

No shame in the pain. I was Navy for 21 years, and while I love wrenching on airplanes, to do that now for even a full day absolutely cripples me for a couple of days.

 

[dieseldonato]

Arnt there any machine shops that can resurface the flywheel? The shop I worked at would do tons of them during the week. Normally just a light skim on the grinder is all it would take to get them dead flat again.

 

[pkhoury]

Good to hear that the flywheel is reusable. Certainly saves the trouble of either sourcing a new one or having a machinist turn it for you.

Don't overthink the clutch break-in period. Just do normal stop and go driving. Dont ride the clutch to hold a hill, lug the engine, or go to the dyno for about 500 miles, and you'll be fine. All OEM clutches from the last 40 years were designed to be taken off of the dealer lot and just driven like a normal vehicle. Even my old 1983 Chevy truck owner manual has zero mention of clutch break-in. High performance clutches that are dramatically different in function from OEM style are different story, but we aren't discussing that application.

No shame in the pain. I was Navy for 21 years, and while I love wrenching on airplanes, to do that now for even a full day absolutely cripples me for a couple of days.

Interesting to know on the break-in. I just drove mostly normal the last time I installed one, without having fun hauling @ss with the car until after the break-in, though I don't usually overdo it on speeding. 500 miles, sadly, is about 4-5 days of driving to San Antonio and back for me.

Thank you for your service, btw! And yeah, the pain can be pretty bad. Anything that requires gripping my index and thumb causes debilitating pain, so I just gotta space it out when it starts to hurt.

Arnt there any machine shops that can resurface the flywheel? The shop I worked at would do tons of them during the week. Normally just a light skim on the grinder is all it would take to get them dead flat again.

This one was local, and it was still 40 minutes of driving. Most of it on absolute $hit dirt roads full of bumps. I laughed that the speed limit said 30mph. Maybe in my side by side, but in my car, I was doing 15 at the most.

Anyways, his machine is geared more towards truck/tractor flywheels. Mine was a bit too small. I called around - Napa apparently used to do it, but the problem is they've either sold their machines, or the young bucks working there have no clue/desire to learn how to use it. And I couldn't find ANY automotive shops that do it, either. Same goes for brake rotors - nobody turns them anymore, when it's cheaper to buy new rotors.

So like I said, this machinist said that the surface looked really good and just cleaning it up with sandpaper and brake cleaner would suffice. Of course, the pressure plate will also be new. I didn't pull the clutch because it was slipping, but because of the clutch fork failure, so I'm still thinking I should be okay.

 

[dieseldonato]

Interesting to know on the break-in. I just drove mostly normal the last time I installed one, without having fun hauling @ss with the car until after the break-in, though I don't usually overdo it on speeding. 500 miles, sadly, is about 4-5 days of driving to San Antonio and back for me.

Thank you for your service, btw! And yeah, the pain can be pretty bad. Anything that requires gripping my index and thumb causes debilitating pain, so I just gotta space it out when it starts to hurt.

This one was local, and it was still 40 minutes of driving. Most of it on absolute $hit dirt roads full of bumps. I laughed that the speed limit said 30mph. Maybe in my side by side, but in my car, I was doing 15 at the most.

Anyways, his machine is geared more towards truck/tractor flywheels. Mine was a bit too small. I called around - Napa apparently used to do it, but the problem is they've either sold their machines, or the young bucks working there have no clue/desire to learn how to use it. And I couldn't find ANY automotive shops that do it, either. Same goes for brake rotors - nobody turns them anymore, when it's cheaper to buy new rotors.

So like I said, this machinist said that the surface looked really good and just cleaning it up with sandpaper and brake cleaner would suffice. Of course, the pressure plate will also be new. I didn't pull the clutch because it was slipping, but because of the clutch fork failure, so I'm still thinking I should be okay.

Interesting, guess he didn't have different wheels for the grinder. We did automotive, and truck on the same grinder just changed different wheels depending on how big the flywheel was. Times sure change I guess. But thinking about it I haven't cut a rotor in years either.

 

[Nuje]

And yes, squeezing out RTV causes debilitating pain. Getting a consistent bead around a whole oil pan for me is impossible, thanks to thumb arthritis I've had since I was a kid. I can usually suck it up, but some things, I have to take breaks. Guess that's this is a hobby and not my career.

The VW OE RTV for the oil pan comes in a short (like 5") tube that fits in a caulking gun. I used that on my most recent oil pan replacement and my finger joints thanked my profusely.
Edit: here's the stuff I got from the parts counter at local VW dealer.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/oil-pan-gasket-silicone-sealant-80ml/d176404m2/

 

[pkhoury]

The VW OE RTV for the oil pan comes in a short (like 5") tube that fits in a caulking gun. I used that on my most recent oil pan replacement and my finger joints thanked my profusely.
Edit: here's the stuff I got from the parts counter at local VW dealer.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/oil-pan-gasket-silicone-sealant-80ml/d176404m2/

That stuff ain't cheap, that's for sure. I ended up using Permatex Ultra Black. Decided to be more diligent this go around. Waited about an hour after putting in the pan to get all the bolts to torque spec (11 ft lbs). Then am waiting two hours to put oil in. That expires in about 2-ish hours. Which is fine, because I'm exhausted. Finished securing my CV bolts, refilling the 02J. All that's left is engine oil and possibly replaced my accidentally crimped oil feed braided line.