Clutch needed for 200-250hp daily driven ALH TDI

AWD-TDI

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Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
I just acquired this little gem in the rough and I need to put a GREAT clutch in there that will last and hopefully not slap around like the current unit.

This has the 225hp audi tt 6MT and AWD. What clutch should I be looking for? Audi TT clutch? TDI clutch? Some combo of the two? Are the trans input splines the same on the tt trans as the stocker?

If anyone has some specific recommendations I would very much appreciate it. Looking for the best possible option. I strongly favor an option that simulates the DMF and operates quietly.

What about the flywheel? I know single mass is a must. I believe the unit in there now is very lightweight which kind of sucks for low RPM take off performance but I can deal with that as long as the other performance gains are worth while.

Thoughts ? Opinions? Ridicule ?

Thanks

Ps the old owner says he has a 500ft lb capable clutch in there that lasted about 50k. Maybe it's a fine choice and was just abused... currently the clutch slips in the power band and is not long for this world.

Anyone have experience with the south bend 425+ ft lbs endurance clutch or the DKM twin disc?

DKM is super nice and maybe the only clutch that will handle the abuse and also not rattle... Not sure of the rattling tho. Will it rattle with a single mass flywheel?
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
Northern MD (HAGERBUSH)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress)
South Bend clutch, Enduro stage 2 with a lighter 14lbs flywheel. winner combo. was putting 230 down to that baby with no issues.
 

AWD-TDI

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Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
South Bend clutch, Enduro stage 2 with a lighter 14lbs flywheel. winner combo. was putting 230 down to that baby with no issues.
Did it rattle at idle? I sure would like to get rid of that annoyance.

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Yourbuddysatin

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Oct 28, 2016
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Pennsylvania
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2013 Jetta tdi
I emailed them weeks ago no response. They may not know what to recommend since it's got the audi tt 6MT on it? I will follow up.

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Hmmm maybe call then. I would think by now someone had done something along these same lines as your set up. If not then maybe a custom set up. I have used southbend for everything diesel and not one problem from them.
 

AWD-TDI

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Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
Hmmm maybe call then. I would think by now someone had done something along these same lines as your set up. If not then maybe a custom set up. I have used southbend for everything diesel and not one problem from them.
Wellllll turns out they did email me back and I missed it. So am going back and forth now. Will advise what comes from it. Hoping to avoid having to take car apart to figure out what clutch it needs before ordering new one. Down time is a pain. To complicate things the internal gears were swapped with a newer tdi 6mt set for better highway rpm. No clue what is actually in the case or spline count etc. I'd be real surprised anyone could tell me with confidence what will work but still hoping. Maybe all spline counts are the same across all possible options?

Joy of custom car building :)

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Yourbuddysatin

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Oct 28, 2016
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
It’s either a 2.5 trans or 2.0 trans from a mk6 that has super long gears for being gas. I’m 99% it’s a 2.0 gear box. The 5ft gear is longer than 6th on a tdi trans. I’m just not so sure about swapping gears from a newer gear box into an older Audi trans.
 

AWD-TDI

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Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
South bend got back to me saying I need the 1.8T audi clutch with 23 splines. Call me superstitious but I plan to take it apart and then order parts. Not getting warm fuzzy feelings that this is a certainty and dont want to mess with returning a clutch across a border. I'll post back when I get it sorted.

Cheers

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adamss24

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Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Its best to do that, you dont want to find out that your new clutch isnt anything like the one you've just removed ! I would suggest a sachs SRE organic clutch plate and stronger pressure plate- stock like OEM feel with just a litle more pedal pressure...You will need to measure your clutch/flywheel stack to see what it works from their lineup !
 

AWD-TDI

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Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
Update:

Old clutch looked good...

Got a DKM twin plate 650+ ft/lb capable clutch on order.

Fitment exactly per Audi TT for all parts as recommended by vendor.

Thoughts ?


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ducesrwld

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Jan 10, 2009
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WI
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none
dear lord....650 ft-lbs capable clutch on a daily driver you nuts? I've got a SB think they used to call it stg 3+ good for 425-450 from recollection and I wouldn't want anymore on the pedal than where its at and I pound 100 miles a day. if I were you i'd dial the powerband up the hill a little add hp and dial the torque back as that is what really tolls the diesel engine. but hey just my 2 cents. as most people say big power and DDing don't go together I tried blending my setup as middle of the road as possible to make it work.
 

turbobrick240

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Nov 18, 2014
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Twin disk setups are usually not great daily drivers. The clutch is either fully engaged or disengaged- feathering a twin disk is very difficult. So they can be fairly herky jerky.
 

Votblindub

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Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Location
NY
TDI
MK4 Jettas: Sedan & Wagon

I usually see the 6/4 puck (pictured right) type is for a race application and the full disc (pictured left) is more of a comfort driving application.

The SBC Stage 3 clutch i have for my wagon is a full disc type. From what other drivers told me, it's a comfortable clutch that holds down great power and it's only a little stiffer than a daily and feels good. The engagement is good, soft and pleasant, so feathering it or being in traffic doesn't make you hate life. AWD-TDI are you looking for a comfy clutch or whatever, as long as it gets the power down?
 

AWD-TDI

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Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
that honestly looks just fine. how does the springs and the fork look?
All seems fine. Will take a closer look at the fork since I didint check real close. It definitely slipped around peak TQ

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AWD-TDI

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Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
Twin disk setups are usually not great daily drivers. The clutch is either fully engaged or disengaged- feathering a twin disk is very difficult. So they can be fairly herky jerky.
I read some good reviews on the DKM and since the price was right I went for it. I dont expect it to be a problem but will see!

I prefer a heavy clutch to be honest

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AWD-TDI

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Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta

I usually see the 6/4 puck (pictured right) type is for a race application and the full disc (pictured left) is more of a comfort driving application.

The SBC Stage 3 clutch i have for my wagon is a full disc type. From what other drivers told me, it's a comfortable clutch that holds down great power and it's only a little stiffer than a daily and feels good. The engagement is good, soft and pleasant, so feathering it or being in traffic doesn't make you hate life. AWD-TDI are you looking for a comfy clutch or whatever, as long as it gets the power down?
The one I got on order is full face organic twin disc, like the left one shown.

I was hoping to have it all, massive power handling, quiet SMF operation, great driveability and cost!

Will report back after the clutch is installed a month from now.... Long lead time on this sucker

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CNGVW

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Sep 15, 2009
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Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
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Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car fitted with CNG dual fuel conversion.
Ok as the only one here racing a Audi TT AWD as a 1.8T and CR2 now I can tell you what worked for us. I had a South bend CR2 Stage 3 kit for IDPARTS on the first race lasted 2 hr ripped the disc apart. installed a new IDParts SM lasted a few races never slipped 225 HP.
Ran a ALH tranny just front wheel drive welded dif used IDPARTS SM lowcost kit lasted 8 hr race fine pulled it out looks like new.
Now run a CR2L and a DSG setup LOVE it
 

adjat84th

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Dec 13, 2008
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Virginia Beach, VA
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'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
There's a thread here somewhere where someone has reported slipping on the 650lb-ft rated twin disc DKM and I'd say they're not even at 400ft-lbs (2.0CR CBEA with 2260). That's a lot of headroom to be slipping. I got 150k miles out of a SBC stage 3 in my ALH making maybe 300-325lb-ft. Just adding a reference point for you.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
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Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Update:

Old clutch looked surprisingly good... I'm guessing once these slip they glaze fast and then it's a wrap... Could probably deglaze, light hone and send it again but decided to go all out...
I'd bet on it actually being flywheel and PP wear
the ceramic will eat steel surprisingly quick, and then there is going to be less clamp load. The 'hack fix' would be to use a flywheel grinding machine and cut down the PP mounting surface on the flywheel by 2x the depth of the wear step you can measure in the flywheel friction surface. 2x to compensate for the wear in the PP.

That said, I'd look very closely at the spring hub before trying to reuse that disc, they're usually what fails, being torn out of the disc. Next time I'd really recommend you get an unsprung hub disc.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Ran a ALH tranny just front wheel drive welded dif used IDPARTS SM lowcost kit lasted 8 hr race fine pulled it out looks like new.
I've been thinking about welding the diff on a winter-only car
Only thing holding me back is the longevity of the CV joints, being that they're all constantly under as much force as the tires' traction can provide rather than being idling along most of the time.

you have any trouble with them? (obv you aren't putting 10k miles on but still, only welded 02j I've seen mentioned)
 

AWD-TDI

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Aug 8, 2019
Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
I'd bet on it actually being flywheel and PP wear

the ceramic will eat steel surprisingly quick, and then there is going to be less clamp load. The 'hack fix' would be to use a flywheel grinding machine and cut down the PP mounting surface on the flywheel by 2x the depth of the wear step you can measure in the flywheel friction surface. 2x to compensate for the wear in the PP.



That said, I'd look very closely at the spring hub before trying to reuse that disc, they're usually what fails, being torn out of the disc. Next time I'd really recommend you get an unsprung hub disc.
Thanks for the tip. I don't see or feel much of a step. How do springs on the friction disc affect power holding? Aren't those just there to dampen engagement/disengagement? Either way all springs look fine

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[486]

Top Post Dawg
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MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Aren't those just there to dampen engagement/disengagement?
nope, they dampen driveline windup, sort of like the torque mount's flex

the marcel spring is to soften engagement, but they can only use that in a full face kevlar or organic lining
if you look between the two linings on a generic clutch disc you can see the wavy drive plate, that feature is the marcel spring

really, running a solid disc and a solid flywheel you can't really tell from the drivers seat, but there are less failure points
 

Votblindub

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Dec 22, 2010
Location
NY
TDI
MK4 Jettas: Sedan & Wagon
There's a thread here somewhere where someone has reported slipping on the 650lb-ft rated twin disc DKM and I'd say they're not even at 400ft-lbs (2.0CR CBEA with 2260). That's a lot of headroom to be slipping. I got 150k miles out of a SBC stage 3 in my ALH making maybe 300-325lb-ft. Just adding a reference point for you.
Was it just lacking clamp force? 650lb is a LOT, like Corvette power and from a V8 that's damn near triple in displacement. How did that happen?
 

AWD-TDI

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Location
Barrie Ontario
TDI
ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
nope, they dampen driveline windup, sort of like the torque mount's flex



the marcel spring is to soften engagement, but they can only use that in a full face kevlar or organic lining

if you look between the two linings on a generic clutch disc you can see the wavy drive plate, that feature is the marcel spring



really, running a solid disc and a solid flywheel you can't really tell from the drivers seat, but there are less failure points
Interesting point on the marcel spring. Good feature for sure. I have not driven on a SOLID disc so can't comment to much but seems like it would be noticeably less friendly

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AWD-TDI

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Barrie Ontario
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ALH - 2003 AWD Jetta
Was it just lacking clamp force? 650lb is a LOT, like Corvette power and from a V8 that's damn near triple in displacement. How did that happen?
I too now have heard of some quality issues on this DKM I bought but have yet to receive.... another report such as the above from a different source.

I think the above point is that without exceeding the rating, there was still a failure. I hope they have it figure out since I'm kind of committed at this point.....

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