clutch/crank gremlins? No fit on new clutch

[u1859]

After a tune my current smf clutch started to slip. Around 25000 miles later I got the ambition to replace with a new one.
So first clutch was a sachs G60. No go. Figured dealer got bad parts and got a second one. The second is just the same. Turns out that when both current valeo and new sachs are set on a bench the pp fingers are at the exact same height. however the sachs flywheel has a recess on the back of about 0.675 inch where the valeo has a recess of just 0.125" Installed the sachs clutch will not fully release. This makes sense as the assembly sits nearly 1/2 inch closer to the motor. I am running out of throw on the slave cylinder.
I guess My question is has anyone else ran into this? Are there different crank off-sets? I cant be the only person that this has happened to. Maybe there was catastrophic engine damage before my ownership of the car that was repaired with non correct parts? But after calling valeo their part numbers all matched what I have. Car was produced late 05 and sold as a 06. tdi 1.9 5 speed.
By the way, anyone looking to do a clutch swap, its not too hard. After several r&r's to measure everything I'm getting pretty good at it. Thanks for any input

 

[GCBUG00]

The system stack height is the possible interesting measurement. You cannot measure a clutch spring tip height on the bench uninstalled.

If you could put the two systems together bolted up and create a measurement reference from the back of the FW where it bolts to the crank, now measure to the bolted up (with disc) tips.

Part numbers of the kits might help too.

 

[u1859]

Seems I am on the right path. Called Cascade German auto parts. They knew the problem right off the bat(hopefully.) They said the brm has a different flywheel and I must be getting the older design. According to SBC they only have the one design for the tdi. New flywheel should be here the middle of the week. I will give updates. SBC part number is k70316f hd0

 

[Nuje]

I had something similar happen when I decided to get a clutch stateside (US) for my 02M transmission that I bought from Europe. (Details here)

It "almost" held...but not quite, due to difference in pressure plate height.
(US - for gasser 02M on left; Euro TDI 02M clutch on right)

 

[GCBUG00]

I had something similar happen when I decided to get a clutch stateside (US) for my 02M transmission that I bought from Europe. (Details here)

It "almost" held...but not quite, due to difference in pressure plate height.
(US - for gasser 02M on left; Euro TDI 02M clutch on right)

That is exactly what doesn't work for comparing clutches.

They must be bolted down on a FW with a full thickness disc then you can make a measurement of the spring tip height from the crank mounting surface if the FW's were different designs.

Any chance those were self adjusting clutches?

 

[Nuje]

Well, I don't know much about clutches, but if I'd done this comparison before installing the one on the left, I wouldn't have the shreds of clutch disc you can kinda see there; after I put the Euro clutch (on the right) on, that sucker has held rock-solid with ~280ft.lb. coming out of the engine.

 

[GCBUG00]

If you can identify the actual manufacturer of each clutch and any etched on part numbers possibly a bit of mystery about the clutch could be figured out. Both Sachs and LuK put information on the cover facing the trans. I don't have any info on "Euro" vs US production. It's all mfgr part numbers that tell the facts. And those shreds of friction material might actually be holding the spring tips down.

 

[u1859]

Seems we are good to go now with the flywheel from Cascade German. Flywheel from South bend has a "VF98200" etched in it. While Measuring the difference of the South bend and Cascade german I came up with close to 7/16" difference. I don't know how SBC couldn't tell me what was going on as I was pretty specific about BRM. This flywheel should fit 99-06 tdi's. All 06 models except the Jetta that is.

 

[GCBUG00]

This http://https://www.idparts.com/g60vr6-single-mass-flywheel-22-lb-p-996.html marked VF98200?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Valeo specifies different part numbers for conversion kits for BRM TDIs than other 5 speed TDIs. However, Sachs and LUK do not. We've sold countless G60/VR6 kits to BRM owners and they're had no problems with the install. But if you're buying a Valeo kit it's important to get the correct one, manufacturer's part number 52285616.

Of course you cannot mix and match flywheels and clutches, single or dual mass.

 

[u1859]

The id parts g-60 is the first kit that I purchased. Not knowing the exact similarities I ordered a sbc when it didn't release right. I figured that manufacturing tolerances would be off just a titch. This was the exact same thing. Still no go. A third flywheel that I picked up had enough of a extended mounting point to kick the clutch assm out enough to fully release. Just as a fyi with the g-60 and sbc flywheels installed I could measure in the slave cylinder hole 1 3/8" With the third flywheel I get around 7/8". With the wore out valeo I had about 3/8" from the slave mounting pad to the throw out arm. Imagine that. I like my odd projects. They add a little struggle to life. But for now this one can be checked off the list. The SBC flywheel had the Vf98200 stamp.