Cluster and electrical troules.

wenholzm

Member
Joined
May 9, 2015
Location
Austin Texas
TDI
2000 ALH Jetta in 1985 Vanagon
I am new to the forum, hoping to be a long time member to the TDI Club. I think in terms of reliability, maintenance, efficiency etc there is no power plant like the TDI. I have been a first time owner of a TDI engine now for the better part of one year, but the previous comments from me were based on what I have read, not on actual experience. I bought components from a wrecked ALH 2000 Jetta, and am in the long process of working with a local mechanic in converting into my Vanagon Westy 1985. I started this project by visiting a local junk yard and finding the afore mentioned vehicle and taking out the harness, ecm (computer) engine, turbo, intercooler and that was about all I thought I needed. All the above have been installed and I believe it looks great, but then again I am not a mechanic…. What do I know? I work in Agriculture, I am a frustrated car guy; always have been, so I thought the conversion would be good for me to fill that void in my life.

Hopefully someone can help this frustrated car guy agronomist to show me how to resolve my problem. I did an incomplete research on the conversion. I did not know about the cluster in the dash of the 2000 Jetta that connects the scanner tool with the ecm. Most of my research was done on what other converters have done in ALH but from pre 2000 (A4 body), and I did not know about the cluster.

A couple days ago I got the diagrams that shows how to hook up the cluster thanks to Andy Bees via rsxsr, thanks to both since this has allowed me to know why I have been stuck for sooooooo long….

I am close to getting the project to start, almost there. I took the ecm to a local key guy and he removed the immo in the ecm (computer) so that I can start with the original Vanagon key. (That is if he is being straight with me). Oh, I forgot to mention, all this is taking place in GuadalajaraMexico, my last venue of employment, I am since retired).

So my questions to the group: Is there a way to bypass the cluster to connect the scanner to the ecm?

If this is impossible:

Option 1: I have sourced a cluster from a gas 2000 Jetta, can I use this to hook up the scanner to the ecm? (I cannot find a diesel cluster from a 2000 Jetta here in Mexico)

Option 2. Try to source a mechanical pump and go w/o a computer. Truthfully this is looking appealing since I am about to go crazy with the electrical issues I am having.

Option 3. Look for a Jetta gasser engine and do a re-do and chuck the diesel, and this will be the shortest post in the history of the TDI Forums.

Hopefully there is a solution out there. Thank you all for your time, all the best.

Mark Wenholz
GuadalajaraMexico



I am new to the forum, looking forward to be a long time member to the TDI Club. I think in terms of reliability, maintance
 

Alchemist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Location
Lethbridge, Alberta
TDI
'04 ALH Golf
As you have now found out, there is a Gateway in the Instrument Cluster to interface the various modules to the OBD port K line.

If all you require in your conversion is the engine it can be done without the VW cluster by connecting the Can Bus leads directly to the OBD port.

Can Low is an Orange/Brown wire on Pin 6 of the 121 Pin ECU.
Can High is an Orange/Black wire on Pin 7 of the 121 Pin ECU.

Can Low connects to Pin 14 of the OBD connector.
Can High connects to Pin 6 of the OBD connector.

You will then be able to use a Can Bus capable scan tool to communicate with the ECU.
 

wenholzm

Member
Joined
May 9, 2015
Location
Austin Texas
TDI
2000 ALH Jetta in 1985 Vanagon
Thank you for the information. Looks promising. But as I stated in the opening I am new to all this.

In the solution you are sending me will I be able to use a VCDS software and adapter from Ross Tech. http://www.ross-tech.com/index.html so that I can make adjustments to the ecm, or will I just be able to use only a Scan Gauge like http://www.scangauge.com/ for the lighter day to day needs.

Thanks for your help
Mark
 

Alchemist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Location
Lethbridge, Alberta
TDI
'04 ALH Golf
If you do that minor rewire, you will be able to use VCDS. It will, however, have to be a model that will work with Can Bus since you will no longer be using the K line.

I know this works because I did it last week on an ALH as part of my research on a conversion.
 

mtushmoo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Location
MI
TDI
97 Passat. 99 A6 avant in process. Parting '96 Passat. Parting '01 Passat Wagon.
You should be able to hook the K-line directly to the diagnostic port.

Pin 16 on the ECU and pin 7 on the port.

Which ECM are you using? It should be something like EDC15 XXXX for the pins I just gave and which has pin 6&7 for the CAN lines.
 

wenholzm

Member
Joined
May 9, 2015
Location
Austin Texas
TDI
2000 ALH Jetta in 1985 Vanagon
You should be able to hook the K-line directly to the diagnostic port.

Pin 16 on the ECU and pin 7 on the port.

Which ECM are you using? It should be something like EDC15 XXXX for the pins I just gave and which has pin 6&7 for the CAN lines.
Not sure which ecu I am using, it has 121 pins, I have the serial number but do not see any numbers like EDC15XXXX.

Serial is Bosch 083 906 012 BD This taken off the tag on the ecu.

Do I need to use the K Line? Will the CAN work for me?
 

wenholzm

Member
Joined
May 9, 2015
Location
Austin Texas
TDI
2000 ALH Jetta in 1985 Vanagon
If you do that minor rewire, you will be able to use VCDS. It will, however, have to be a model that will work with Can Bus since you will no longer be using the K line.

I know this works because I did it last week on an ALH as part of my research on a conversion.
OK - I will look to make this work. Thanks
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Very interesting Thread.

Glad to have helped with the info I have.

I'd like to know which pins from the ECU and/or OBD that could be used to connect LEDs to provide the Flashing GP light and the CEL. Those two indicators would be most helpful.

If that's possible, I may opt out of a TDI cluster in my next conversion!
 

Alchemist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Location
Lethbridge, Alberta
TDI
'04 ALH Golf
I have been experimenting with an EDC15 VM+, VW P/N 038 906 012FD and found the following.

There is no wire on T121-24 for MIL.
I connected a wire to this pin and tried, but it doesn't operate the MIL.

There is a Blue/Green wire on T121-40 which connects to T10W-8. This does operate the glow plug light by grounding to turn on.

There is a Green/Brown wire on T121-27 which connects to T10-9, and should be a tach signal, but I haven't tested this yet.

It seems as if the MIL lamp driver is buried in the CAN bus.

Can anyone confirm this or find a way around the bus?
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
I have been experimenting with an EDC15 VM+, VW P/N 038 906 012FD and found the following.

There is no wire on T121-24 for MIL.
I connected a wire to this pin and tried, but it doesn't operate the MIL.

There is a Blue/Green wire on T121-40 which connects to T10W-8. This does operate the glow plug light by grounding to turn on.

There is a Green/Brown wire on T121-27 which connects to T10-9, and should be a tach signal, but I haven't tested this yet.

It seems as if the MIL lamp driver is buried in the CAN bus.

Can anyone confirm this or find a way around the bus?
shhh!!! .... not too loud or my truck with functioning mil, tach and glow light with NO can wires might hear you !!... yes those pins are definately present in the 121 pin ecm's as i discovered over four years ago on my truck conversion
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
to the op...k line (grey/white) directly to grey/white on the diag port along with power and ground and you will have have full diagnostic and flash capability with no can wires connected period !
 

Alchemist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Location
Lethbridge, Alberta
TDI
'04 ALH Golf
shhh!!! .... not too loud or my truck with functioning mil, tach and glow light with NO can wires might hear you !!... yes those pins are definately present in the 121 pin ecm's as i discovered over four years ago on my truck conversion

Did your ECU have a White/Blue wire on Pin 24 as Bentley shows? Mine has no wire on this pin, and when connected to a test light I get no indication. Do I need to use the circuit some clever guy designed?

Paul
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Did your ECU have a White/Blue wire on Pin 24 as Bentley shows? Mine has no wire on this pin, and when connected to a test light I get no indication. Do I need to use the circuit some clever guy designed?

Paul
yes mine had a wire .... what year is the fd ecm from ?... ive had both early and late ecm's in my truck and both activated the cel just fine ... that clever guy is around here somewhere and his circuit works great ;)... although if you can't get the mil to flash in output tests the activation may not be in the flash or hardware
 

Alchemist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Location
Lethbridge, Alberta
TDI
'04 ALH Golf
I have 2 ECMs, one is from an 02 5 speed, the other is from an 03 auto. Neither one has the MIL wire, and they both operate the same way.

Could this be a job for a tuner to reflash to a different version?
 
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