Clean Diesel DPF Data Collection Thread

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
This thread was started so that members can post information about their DPF’s. This info is obtained using VAGCOM. Using VCDS, select “Control Module”, then “01-Engine”, “Measuring Blocks” or "Advanced Measuring Blocks".
108 or 241 for Oil Ash Volume. 360,365 can also be used.
105 # of requested regens.
Dedending on which car you have, measuring blocks vary. I will update the data table throughtout the month as members post their info here. This is NOT a discussion thread. PM a member if you want to discuss details further.
Only the past 12 months data is showing. For older data, click here.
Entry Format
MemberName:
Model Year:
Model:
Tranny:
Miles:
Oil Ash Volume:
Oil Type: (ex. Castrol LL03, Mobile 1 ESP, etc.)
Avrg. MPG:
Comments: (not required)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
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MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
MemberName: MacBuckeye
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta Sedan
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 40,950
Oil Ash Volume: 39 ml
Avrg. MPG: 38.5
Comments: Taken on 9-16-10. I have also included in the spreadsheet all my other readings.
 

WVU TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2007
Location
Beckley, WV
TDI
2013 Passat SE 6m
MemberName: wvu tdi
Model Year: 2010
Model: Golf, 4dr
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 23525
Oil Ash Volume: 18ml
Avrg. MPG: group 240 gives me 27L, 550km, and 432 unknown units? 550km/27L = roughly 48mpg. The highest hand calc'd mpg I've seen in the car is 45.6mpg, highest the MFI has shown is 45.3, both during my last tank. Avg mpg for the life of the car so far is 40.3mpg.
No. of regens: 4.0
Current soot load: 15.6
Oil type: Lubro Moly Top Tec 4200 http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1967

Other comments: I turned the car off in the middle of a regen ohhh, a week ago or so? 550km since then seems high, but not by much.

Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see. I'd be glad to assist :)
 
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TDIFred

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Location
Hamilton, Ontario
TDI
Jetta Sportwagen, 2009, Graphite
Entry Format
MemberName: TDIFred
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta Sportwagen
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 37217 (59895km)
Oil Ash Volume: 30mL
Avrg. MPG: 47 (Imperial gallons) approx. 39 per US gal)
Comments: number of regens 3, fuel consumption since last regen 11.1 l, 200 km since last regen, time 204 (not sure units), DPF soot load, calculated 13.2g, soot load measure 1.2g
Location: ON
Oil: Castrol (dealer-serviced)
 
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JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
Entry Format
MemberName: JSWTDI09
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta Sportwagen
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 32,325
Oil Ash Volume: 30
Avrg. MPG: 38
Comments: Mobil 1 ESP oil used since 10k oil change. Most driving is in town with only occasional highway trips.

Have Fun!

Don


 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
Our DPF's can't be cleaned... ?

Here's a response I received from a company who services (cleans) DPF's....
"From the pictures in Gxxx Rxxxx tear down of a DPF, it looks pretty much impossible to clean these DPFs as illustrated by it having to be cut it apart. In order to clean effectively, one needs access to both faces of the DPF. I recommend you follow the manufacturer recommendations on low ash oil since by doing so the DPF life will be maximized. Ash will eventually clog a DPF enough to cause increased regenerations. The back pressure sensor cannot tell the difference between ash and soot. It just knows that there is too much back pressure and tells the ECM to perform an active regeneration. This of course only burns off the soot but the ash will remain. Ash is made up of inert inorganic metals and mineral compounds from lubricants and engine wear. Over time the ash will cause the DPF to fail. This looks as though it will be a very expensive replacement and it is unfortunate that the engineers or bean counters didn't feel it was cost effective for them to put a disconnect flange on either side of the DPF to allow for future maintenance. GM did the same thing on their Duramax trucks but Dodge and Ford (with the exception of 2010) made them cleanable."
If this is true and we have to have them replaced, the question now becomes when? At what point does the car stop performing a regen cycle and the DPF cloggs up? I'm going to email a couple dealerships to see if they can shed some light on what the life expectancy is and perhaps what technical specs (amount of oil ash build up??) the DPF can hold before it needs replaced.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
I've used Castrol LL03 for the the first 4 oil changes. For my 50k OC, I'll be using Mobil 1 ESP.
 

Absolute Diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Location
USA
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG (SOLD)
Here's a response I received from a company who services (cleans) DPF's....
"From the pictures in Gxxx Rxxxx tear down of a DPF, it looks pretty much impossible to clean these DPFs as illustrated by it having to be cut it apart. In order to clean effectively, one needs access to both faces of the DPF. I recommend you follow the manufacturer recommendations on low ash oil since by doing so the DPF life will be maximized. Ash will eventually clog a DPF enough to cause increased regenerations. The back pressure sensor cannot tell the difference between ash and soot. It just knows that there is too much back pressure and tells the ECM to perform an active regeneration. This of course only burns off the soot but the ash will remain. Ash is made up of inert inorganic metals and mineral compounds from lubricants and engine wear. Over time the ash will cause the DPF to fail. This looks as though it will be a very expensive replacement and it is unfortunate that the engineers or bean counters didn't feel it was cost effective for them to put a disconnect flange on either side of the DPF to allow for future maintenance. GM did the same thing on their Duramax trucks but Dodge and Ford (with the exception of 2010) made them cleanable."
If this is true and we have to have them replaced, the question now becomes when? At what point does the car stop performing a regen cycle and the DPF cloggs up? I'm going to email a couple dealerships to see if they can shed some light on what the life expectancy is and perhaps what technical specs (amount of oil ash build up??) the DPF can hold before it needs replaced.
This is a very big concern IMO. I think it's safe to say that eventually, the DPF will become clogged and need to be replaced, whether that's at 100K or 250K. If they cannot be cleaned as I was hoping, VW better find a way to bring the price of replacing these down to a few hundred rather than thousands. Otherwise I see DPF deletes in many people's future or dumping their CR VW (which is a shame b/c this car is awesome) for possibly Mazda Sky-D.
 

OILPowered

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Location
Orange County, CA
TDI
335d (still a TDI, technically)
This is a very big concern IMO. I think it's safe to say that eventually, the DPF will become clogged and need to be replaced, whether that's at 100K or 250K. If they cannot be cleaned as I was hoping, VW better find a way to bring the price of replacing these down to a few hundred rather than thousands. Otherwise I see DPF deletes in many people's future or dumping their CR VW (which is a shame b/c this car is awesome) for possibly Mazda Sky-D.
Agreed. Hopefully a more cost-effective solution will surface as the need increases.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
MemberName: roninwarior007
Model Year: 2010
Model: golf
Tranny: 6mt
Miles: 62263
Oil Ash Volume: 60ml
Avrg. MPG: 42
Comments: just switched to b2-5 most recent fuel up
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
So....... based on the data collected thus far, the oil ash volume is building up at a rate of about 10 ml per 10,000 miles. I'm going to take a very uneducated guess and say the DPF can hold at least 1 liter of this crud. A little simple math and...... wait for it......... could it be true?????
1 million miles before the DPF clogs up!!!! OK, let's say it would only hold half that amount (1/2 liter). That still gives us 500K miles before the DPF is clogged. I'm OK with that. What are your thoughts? Even being more conservative would put us around 250K miles. That is still OK in my book. I've never owned a car that long or with that many miles.

Appreciate the data fellas. Hope to see additional member posts as well as future data from you.
 

bobt2382

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 CW GOLF 4DR 6MT TDI
23 July 2011
MemberName: bobt2382
Model Year: 2010
Model: Golf, 4dr
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 16316
Oil Ash Volume: 9ml
Avrg. MPG: 47.16
No. of regens: 3.0, 190 km since last regen
Current soot load: 12.9g
Oil type: Lubro Moly Top Tec 4200 ( have approx 6k miles on this oil)

Other comments: I've turned the car off in the middle of a regen 3 times over the last two months. Use B2-B5 blends and Opti-lube.

24 July, Just returned from a 80 mile trip, mostly highway miles, turned the car off and the fans were running, Checked to see if it was a REGEN or just due to a hot engine. Looks like a REGEN.

Miles: 16396
Oil Ash Volume: 9ml
Avrg. MPG: 47.16
No. of regens: 2.0, 0 km since last regen
Current soot load: 5.0 g
 
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EJS

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
Northern VA
TDI
2009 Jetta
MemberName: EJS
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta
Tranny: 6A
Miles: 40,485
Oil Ash Volume: 39ml
Requested regens: 3.0, 230 km since last regen
Current soot load: 11.1g
Oil type: Fuch's 507.00 spec, changed @ 39,800

Sorry for being late to the party, been too damn hot to do the scan :D (car is outside all the time)
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
So....... based on the data collected thus far, the oil ash volume is building up at a rate of about 10 ml per 10,000 miles. I'm going to take a very uneducated guess and say the DPF can hold at least 1 liter of this crud. A little simple math and...... wait for it......... could it be true?????
1 million miles before the DPF clogs up!!!! OK, let's say it would only hold half that amount (1/2 liter). That still gives us 500K miles before the DPF is clogged. I'm OK with that. What are your thoughts? Even being more conservative would put us around 250K miles. That is still OK in my book. I've never owned a car that long or with that many miles.

Appreciate the data fellas. Hope to see additional member posts as well as future data from you.
IIRC, in VCDS didn't the note say that the range of the Oil Ash Volume was 380 ml? If that is an indication of maximum volume, then that would put the mileage in the 380k mile range at the 10 ml / 10k rate.

Also, VW states:

When the load condition reaches 1.59
ounces (45 grams), service regeneration
is no longer possible. Because the
danger of destroying the filter is too
great with this load, the filter must be
replaced.


A quick search indicates the density of diesel soot is usually less than 0.1g/ml. So, a simple calculation shows that 45 g of soot load is (45 g / (0.1g/ml)) = 450 ml. Again, could that be close to the storage volume of the DPF before it needs replaced?

VW's recommended inspection of the DPF data at 120k miles is likely a severe service scenario - like those NYC TDI taxis someone was selling on here a while back which were likely driven mostly in the city and ideling alot. I believe that the life of the DPF under "normal" service conditions is a lot more than the 120k miles.
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
Plus 3-
Good stuff. For some reason I couldn't get the little "info bubble" to come up while VCDS was running. I'm not sure if the info from VW (45 grams of soot load) is the same as oil ash volume. The soot burns off during regens. Not sure if all of the soot burns off or if a percentage remains. I've watched the soot load measurements increase and then drop back towards zero after a regen. If the measurements are correct, then all the soot is burned, thus a reading of 0.0 after the regen is complete. The lowest soot load measured during my scans was 1.5. Even after a regen it didn't go to 0.0. Soot load calculated does go to 0.0 after a regen. I'm wondering if the "45 grams" VW is referring to is not oil ash volume, but the soot load. If the soot load (either measured or calculated) reaches 45 gr, then an emergency regen is no longer safe. But, as long as the car is able to regen on a regular basis, the soot load would never get this high. The highest my soot load (measured) ever reached was 16.2 gr.
The oil ash volume has never decreased from the few observations/measurements I've taken. I would like to see more gradual increases and not increases of 8-11 ml. in one shot. I guess I'll have to keep the laptop with me more often and get a lot more readings. I sent a PM to a member with a 2009 that has 92K miles on it. I'm hoping he can scan his car and give us the oil ash volume. Doesn't Rod Bearing have a high mileage 2009?
If we can get between 250K - 380K miles out of a DPF that gives us some time to save up for a new one! :)
 

bobt2382

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 CW GOLF 4DR 6MT TDI

VW Skoda Audi Seat
DPF Additive
Satacen 25
used to remove soot from the diesel particulate filter
part number
g052143a2
or
g 052 143 a2
used in the 2.0 diesel
the system takes 4 litre to fill
and will require filling at 80.000 to 120.000 miles
you will get a warning light come on telling you are low
this is normally the engine management light
this action is for 1 litre

This looks like the Adblue that the new US made Passat will use.​



I ran across a DPF "cleaner" available in Europe. The link:
http://www.jlmlubricants.com/Diesel.html

1) JLM DPF Cleaner
The first version is the JLM Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) Cleaner Fluid, which comes in a 100ml can and is added to the fuel tank every service interval or 10.000km for maximum cleaning power of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). It cleans blocked diesel filters (1st stage warning) and enables full diesel filter regeneration in difficult drive cycles (ie. city driving) .

To read about the first test results read this convincing PDF file (click link below)
JLM DPF Cleaner test results (JLM Diesel Particuatel Filter Cleaner Test Results)


Bob​
 
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JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
1) JLM DPF Cleaner
The first version is the JLM Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) Cleaner Fluid, which comes in a 100ml can and is added to the fuel tank every service interval or 10.000km for maximum cleaning power of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). It cleans blocked diesel filters (1st stage warning) and enables full diesel filter regeneration in difficult drive cycles (ie. city driving) .

To read about the first test results read this convincing PDF file (click link below)
JLM DPF Cleaner test results (JLM Diesel Particuatel Filter Cleaner Test Results)


Bob​
This might help with regens when doing only city driving, but it will do nothing for ash accumulation which is primarily what this thread is about. Ash is the result of burning off soot and this chemical is supposed to help with the burning off of soot. Once that soot is burnt off, the resulting ash is what will limit the life of the DPF in the long run. When the ash accumulation is enough to block the flow of exhaust gases it must either be emptied out or the DPF replaced. We can all hope that someone figures out a cost effective way to empty it out. It might even be as simple as a shop-vac with a properly curved attachment. Only time will tell.

Have Fun!

Don
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV, 2015 Spark EV
VW Skoda Audi Seat
DPF Additive
Satacen 25
used to remove soot from the diesel particulate filter
part number
g052143a2
or
g 052 143 a2
used in the 2.0 diesel
the system takes 4 litre to fill
and will require filling at 80.000 to 120.000 miles
you will get a warning light come on telling you are low
this is normally the engine management light
this action is for 1 litre

This looks like the Adblue that the new US made Passat will use.​



I ran across a DPF "cleaner" available in Europe. The link:
http://www.jlmlubricants.com/Diesel.html

1) JLM DPF Cleaner
The first version is the JLM Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) Cleaner Fluid, which comes in a 100ml can and is added to the fuel tank every service interval or 10.000km for maximum cleaning power of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). It cleans blocked diesel filters (1st stage warning) and enables full diesel filter regeneration in difficult drive cycles (ie. city driving) .

To read about the first test results read this convincing PDF file (click link below)
JLM DPF Cleaner test results (JLM Diesel Particuatel Filter Cleaner Test Results)


Bob​
This isn't Adblue, it's called Eolys fluid and is used in European diesels in a tank that dispenses a measured amount at each fill-up into the fuel. Adblue is injected into the exhaust after the DPF. The fluid lowers the temperature that the soot will burn at, so the amount of post injections are lessened, which also means less fuel is used for the burning. The only manufacturer that mentions the use of this fluid is Peugeot, but they're all using it.
http://www.peugeot.com/en/innovation/engines/hdi-fap-engines/fap-how-does-it-work-.aspx
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
Who wants to be the first one to run a bottle of JLM DPF cleaner in their 2009 + TDI? :eek:

I should be getting some maintenance info from the dealer tomorrow on the DPF system. They are going to fax it to me. I'll scan and post it as soon as I can.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
Unfortuately, these two products do not clean the ash from the DFP.

They appear to simply lower the balance point temperature oxidizing more soot all else being the same. Thus, the frequency of active regens and the likelihood of needing a service generation are reduced. My guess is that the reduction in ash buildup using these products will not extend the DPF life significantly. The products might prevent DPF replacement due to soot buildup for those that operate their cars in severe conditions like TDI taxis in NYC.

One last point, there are studies that show using, IIRC, B5 lowers the balance point temperature by 50*C.

I won't spend $ on these products.;)
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV, 2015 Spark EV
So, you're saying Peugeot is incorrect when they say the Eolys fluid more than doubled the service period of their DPF?
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
So, you're saying Peugeot is incorrect when they say the Eolys fluid more than doubled the service period of their DPF?
What I'm saying is ash is ash and soot is soot. There is no evidence that eolys can somehow magically reduce ash buildup. It does nothing more than what biodiesel does and that is lowers the balance point temperature. Also, it's the combination of post injection and the additive that has extended the service period which appears to relate to soot oxidation not ash accumulation. Perhaps, Peugeot was having problems with soot accumulation clogging the DPF prior to ash clogging it.

If you can find that eloys reduces ash buildup, I'll buy it.:D
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV, 2015 Spark EV
VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Volvo, Ford, Fiat and Citroen all use Eolys fluid along with Peugeot. They have tanks built into the cars for dispensing the fluid into the fuel tank.
 

EJS

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
Northern VA
TDI
2009 Jetta
Put me in the "extend it to what" camp - 39ml @ 40,000 = 390,000 if the limit is 380ml. Doesn't appear to be worth the trouble.

Who wants to be the first one to run a bottle of JLM DPF cleaner in their 2009 + TDI? :eek:
Not this cowboy, I ain't putting anything through the HPFP except diesel fuel............I ain't giving VW any wiggle room :D
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
VW DPF Regen info

I attached the link to a pdf file. This came from VW and is part of the Engine Management System dealing with Regenerations / DPF issues.
No where does it talk about Oil Ash Volume, only Soot Load. I've asked my dealer contact to try and dig a little deeper to see if there is any literature that specifically mentions "oil ash". Perhaps these terms are used interchangeably??? No one really knows. There are 4 pages... interesting read.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4323/VW_DPF_Regen_System_Info.pdf

Four Types of Regens
Passive Regen
Active Regen
Distance Regen
Customer Initiated Regen
Service Regen

I have a longer drive to work now, so I hope the soot loads and oil ash volume increase at a much slower rate (or none at all). More "Passive Regens" for me please! One could only hope.
 

Absolute Diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Location
USA
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG (SOLD)
MacBuckEye thanks for posting all this great info.

If your calcs are correct, and we can truly get 250k - 500k+ out of this DPF, then I'd be quite happy. I wish some CR's with 100K would provide their data. I'll be adding my data as soon as I get my VAG-COM.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
I attached the link to a pdf file. This came from VW and is part of the Engine Management System dealing with Regenerations / DPF issues.
No where does it talk about Oil Ash Volume, only Soot Load. I've asked my dealer contact to try and dig a little deeper to see if there is any literature that specifically mentions "oil ash". Perhaps these terms are used interchangeably??? No one really knows. There are 4 pages... interesting read.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4323/VW_DPF_Regen_System_Info.pdf

Four Types of Regens
Passive Regen
Active Regen
Distance Regen
Customer Initiated Regen
Service Regen

I have a longer drive to work now, so I hope the soot loads and oil ash volume increase at a much slower rate (or none at all). More "Passive Regens" for me please! One could only hope.
Those pages (and my quote above on 45 grams) are from the Self Study Program 826803 2.0 Liter TDI Common Rail BIN5 ULEV Engine which has been referenced many times over the past few years. I believe this link works for the full document: http://www.filemount.com/2010/10/self-study-program-826803-2-0-liter-tdi-common-rail-bin5-ulev-engine/
 

theedudenator

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Location
Chicago
TDI
09 Jettawagon
MemberName: Theedudenator
Model Year: 2009
Model: JettaWagon
Tranny: 6spd manual
Miles: 74867
Oil Ash Volume: 78ml
Oil Type: Not Sure - buy online
Avrg. MPG:
Comments: My light came on solid today
Fuel consumption since last regen = 67.2l
Mileage Since Last Regen 1200km

 

darrelld

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Location
North Texas
TDI
2014 Tesla Model S85, 2017 Chevy Bolt
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