CL sale turns into an auction

rogerd

Active member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
TDI
2010 JSW, 6 spd, white
Just when I thought the demand for TDI wagons might have cooled a bit due to persistently high diesel prices and dropping gas prices, I called on a 2003 5 spd low miles wagon asking $10,000. They said they'd gotten so many calls that they were not accepting full price offers with a deposit because someone might offer more and they wanted to be able to get that. So they were taking the highest offer and I was free to offer more, cash in hand, no deposits! Geez...
 

johnboy00

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Location
Bridgewater,Ma.,USA
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon, 2004 Jetta, 2003 Jetta wagon
I don't think there is anything wrong with that, IMHO. Who's to say that or best offer has to be a lower amount. At least they were upfront and honest about it. Look at it this way, by the time you called, you weren't getting it anyway.

There have been a lot of cases where people have paid deposits only to find that the seller refunded the money and sold to someone else.
 

rogerd

Active member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
TDI
2010 JSW, 6 spd, white
Jfettig: I didn't.
I was just disgusted by the way they were obviously swept up in the greed.

I've seen this in real estate where a seller collects offers over a period of time and chooses the best one to accept. We had to play that game during the housing bubble to get into a place we wanted. If the buyers want to create some leverage on their end, just put a time limit on their offer, like it expires in 8 hours, but buyers in a bubble panic and let them selves get jerked around. So is there a TDI bubble going?

I suppose it's legal, since advertisements are legally not offers to sell, but invitations to bargain, so that "I'll take it" doesn't form a contract. But I think most of us regard the seller who offers something at a price to have taken on the risk that they failed to set their price well and that a seller with integrity will sell at their asking price even if they quickly realize they could have gotten more. But what am I dong talking about integrity in a used car market?
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
We had to play that game during the housing bubble to get into a place we wanted.

Sorry, you didn't "have" to....you chose to.

You are part of the problem! You played the game and this is why people are able to do what you abhor.

Not hating...just trying to point out that it takes two to tango. I certainly don't blame you for doing what you did. It was in your interest to do so.

Just as it is in the sellers interest to do what they did.

Both parties can walk.
 

tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
Sounds similar to an 1998 84k mile A3 that was listed for sale on Autotrader by a dealer in PA on Friday-it was listed for $6995 on the site,now it's updated to $8995 and says "sorry,sold" :eek:.....if you see a low mileage older tdi,be prepared to pay $$$$$ CASH when you go to look at it-if you don't like it,well,go buy a gas car;)......as much as I hated to do it,I'm putting over $400 worth of work into mine to keep it going a little while longer.....
 
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Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
What's the point of putting up a deposit only to be blown off with a refund? I think if a deposit is accepted, you have a legal contract and you can therefore force the seller to either go get the car back and sell it to you or pay the deposit plus liquidated damages.
 

ibid

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2003
Location
Chicagoland, IL
TDI
Jetta, 2002, Red
^ yeah, I keep telling my mom she could get a mint for her 2002 TDI with only 42k miles on it... (Almost all she uses it for is to commute between Phoenix and Chicago once or twice a year... lol)
 

rogerd

Active member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
TDI
2010 JSW, 6 spd, white
Powderhound: Legally, yes, you have an enforceable contract once the offer is made and accepted. But if the seller in the mean time takes a higher offer and hoses the first offeror, practically, what are you going to do? Courts won't force the seller to go get the car back from the buyer and sell it to you. That's called "specific performance" and courts only do it in the case of unique property, like real estate or art. For a car, you'd have to prove the measure of your damages. Maybe you could go out and buy another one and haggle over the price difference as a measure of damages, but that's hard to do, since the prices would differ for all kinds of reasons. Damages are supposed to get everyone where they would have been if the contract had been performed. You could argue that you should get the difference between what you offered and what the actual buyer paid. Say you offered $10,000 and the seller took a later offer of $12k, you argue that if you had bought it for $10k, you would have had a $12k car, making $2k in profit in the deal, so that is what you should get from the seller, who should have sold you the $12k car for $10k, losing $2k in the deal you got. Then you can supposedly go out in the market with your extra $2k and buy another one for $12k. But you'll spend so long doing this just to end up with $2k, it isn't worth it. Spend your time searching for the next deal instead of litigating the last one. And if you are going through a dealer, their Offer to Buy form they make you use probably calls the deposit "liquidated damages" which means that's all you get in case of breach.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
I think there is a bit of a "Renaissance" in TDI's since the last round of higher oil prices. Earlier this year, I had a fixer 2001 Jetta 5 speed with 175,000 on it that I put into nice shape. I listed it here, eBay and on CL and was bombed with calls in one day. I sold it for $5850 and today I could easily get more for it.

Could it be that with all the advertising that VW is doing for it's diesels that a heightened demand is there for the older units?
 

ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
A 2001 Golf/Bora with 175k would sell for less than $1200 over here!!!

This greed is what crippled our countries in the first place!
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
A 2001 Golf/Bora with 175k would sell for less than $1200 over here!!!

This greed is what crippled our countries in the first place!
How about a neighbor's son getting 5 stitches in his forehead last moth from a fall and getting a bill from the hospital (emergency room) of $3,000.00!
 

Jetter_Sprinta

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
TDI
2 Peeps sharing 1 UseYerName//an array of cars
Look at it this way: well maintained, low-mileage TDIs are like works of art. If there is a buyer willing to pay, and a seller willing to part with a car for which they have taken primo care, then that is the market.

Personally, I think my TDIs are priceless. That is why they are not for sale. I will say, the care I have taken has to be worth something....
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
This seller didn't accept a deposit, so there was no contract. And this was for a Jetta Wagon, the new unicorn of TDIs (replacing the Passat Wagon, sorry Jetter). Sedans in comparable condition can sell for half what a wagon will fetch.

A seller is allowed to get his or her best price. I had multiple full price offers for my B4V when I sold it last year, decided to sell at asking price and not entertain bids. The buyer flipped the car and got an additional $3K. It irked me in part because I could have used the $$, but also because the buyer mislead me, promising he would not flip the car. So it works both ways.

I've twice paid over sticker for a new car. Ironically, I didn't particularly like either and sold them soon after, both at substantial losses. Never again. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. Remember it's a depreciating asset.
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
Anyone that pays 10K for and 8 year old car is nuts anyway. To me it does not matter if its a TDI or not its not worth 10K.

Greg
 

KITEWAGON

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Location
Seacoast, NH
TDI
2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
Anyone that pays 10K for and 8 year old car is nuts anyway. To me it does not matter if its a TDI or not its not worth 10K.

Greg
All 8-yr old cars are not equal. There are some nice clean 8+ year old TDI's out there that are worth north of $10k to many rational buyers.
 

red2002

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Location
Grand Forks BC
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
I paid $11.000 for my 2002 five speed Jetta, heated mirrors,heated leather seats, sunroof , 46,000 likometers. Almost as it came from the showroom floor, I did not feel bad about paying the price the original owner asked.
 

MikeS_18

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Bow, NH
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, '13 Passat SE, '64 Ford Econoline
This greed is what crippled our countries in the first place!
I've read this three times and couldn't not chime in. This is not greed - this is about as far from it as possible. This is the way a free market works. I have something to sell and I get to state the terms of my sale. You don't get to tell me what I can charge or what the terms are; especially if you are not a prospective buyer. If you agree to my terms, great, if not, you can influence me to change my terms but I don't have to.

If we agree to terms and we have an executed contract with consideration and potential damages, then either of us can take that to court. If we don't have a contract that is enforceable then shame on you or me, but tough noogies.

And separately, as a 2003 wagon owner, I hope he gets $15k for it!

end rant.

PS: IBW, I still consider the 2dr Golf the unicorn; although you have one whose antler has been broken off...
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I've twice paid over sticker for a new car. Ironically, I didn't particularly like either and sold them soon after, both at substantial losses. Never again. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. Remember it's a depreciating asset.

not to mind the thread derail, what's the story behind those cars?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
You're just gonna make me feel old. One was a Honda CRX, 1984, one was a Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2000. I've conveniently blocked out how much over sticker I paid for the Honda, but I think it was $1000 for the Toyota. I can tell you that a guy with three kids who travels all the time should not buy a 2 seat car with no trunk. Duh.
 

Turbodude1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Location
Auburn Maine
TDI
1999.5 Golf 2dr. RCII, sprint 520s, shine susp
IBW, that wagon you have is not practical... You should sell it to me :D.

I find it really difficult to buy WAY above book value. Like IBW says they are depreciating assets. Also, if the car gets totalled you are going to be screwed when dealing with the insurance company. If you decide to sell later on, selling can be an issue because anyone that buys it above book will have to put a hefty down payment if they are borrowing.

The clean low mileage wagons I've seen are selling quite a bit above NADA.
 

Thermo1223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Location
Easton, PA
TDI
'00 Jetta 5M-'04 JW A5
I still laugh at the many over 100k wagons trying to be sold locally for big $$$.

The one dealer has been sitting on his for a long time now. $15,000 for 150k, no thanks. Another $12,000 for 114k miles. No thanks.

Lets not forget they are automatics(well one is a think) and 6 year old cars. I've been told by my bank that even a 2006 Jetta with 150k is really pushing it in terms of financing.
 

Turbodude1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Location
Auburn Maine
TDI
1999.5 Golf 2dr. RCII, sprint 520s, shine susp
Even funnier to see the high price tags on Auto's. I don't know about the DSG's, but the old style ones are Junk. Its a 100K mile tranny mounted to a 300K mile car.
 

whynotvw

Active member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Location
oc ca.
TDI
2002 Jetta gls tdi
I'm kind a new to the TDI's. I purchased 2002 Jetta wagon 5sp w/160K miles couple of months ago for $7,800. The wagon was fully loaded with leather, heated seats, maintenance records, and from the original owner. Mileage was kind of high but the wagon drove and looked like a new car. This car was advertised in CL at 10pm. I didn't want to call late at night so I called next morning at 6:30am in the morning and apologized for calling so early. They said I was second caller. (first caller was a flake) I asked if I could leave a deposit and I could catch the first train out there. They gave me until 1:00 pm to come and buy the wagon. I got there from O.C to San Diego by Noon and they picked me up. (very nice senior couple) When they picked me up they said they got at least 10 calls and had 5 people waiting in line if the deal didn't go through. Thank God these nice people kept their words. (not greedy) Initially when I called the owner said the price was flexible. But when it was time to pay the PO looked at me and said since he had so many calls he would like to be firm. I said no problem. But he gave me $200 discount anyways.:)

I know the PO's could've had a bidding war going on also. But thank God there are people out there that think their words are worth more then money. (came with stock wheels)

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=79112&title=img-07431&cat=503
 

Nich

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Location
Pheonix, AZ
TDI
5 spd 03 Jetta TDI
As for a refund issue I would expect a little extra back for my time and gas/milage but I agree seller has every right to accept the highest offer as long as he returns the deposit. Steeling money from an unprepared seller is not a damage that you faced.
 

Thermo1223

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Location
Easton, PA
TDI
'00 Jetta 5M-'04 JW A5
Even funnier to see the high price tags on Auto's. I don't know about the DSG's, but the old style ones are Junk. Its a 100K mile tranny mounted to a 300K mile car.
DSG's can last long I'd imagine if the oil was change regularly enough. Being keen on the tranny operating right as well.

You are dead on about the old style, I wouldn't not touch one above 100k personally.
 

tda2007

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Fairfield, Iowa
TDI
2001 Beetle TDI, 1985 Golf
The funny thing is, I'm actually in this same situation right now with my 01 Beetle. I have had at least 10 people ask to buy my car in the last 2 weeks. I literally just bought the thing a month ago. Im seriously considering putting it up for auction just in that group of 10 people. I really dont think there is anything wrong with that is there?
 

Mcgink

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
South of Boston MA
TDI
I-Red,"The Passat formerly known as Harlequin" 97 B4, a non VW GTDI too
The funny thing is, I'm actually in this same situation right now with my 01 Beetle. I have had at least 10 people ask to buy my car in the last 2 weeks. I literally just bought the thing a month ago. Im seriously considering putting it up for auction just in that group of 10 people. I really dont think there is anything wrong with that is there?
I don't think there would be an issue if it was intended to be an auction. The OP stated that the owner was "asking $10,000" If a buyer offers the $10K and backs it up with money then it should have sold for the asking price IMO. The seller could have changed his selling format or price only after the first refusal of the initial customer(s)
This happened to me when I sold my truck for (apparently) less than I could have gotten for it. The phone rang off the hook, and I sold it in 12 hours to the first person who arrived with cash. In fact, He ran to a bank local to me to get a cash advance on his credit card. Who knew that a factory ordered 1 owner Dodge with every option available would be so in demand :)
 
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