CKRA Oil consumption

[RacingArcher]

I purchased a 2013 Passat TDI a few months ago from a private seller with 158,000mi. The car is in amazing condition and seems to run fine, just took it on a 1200mi trip and my fuel economy was 38mi/gal, which isnt great but not bad. My issue is, it goes through oil like nothing else, 1qt/500mi or tank of fuel. At this rate I almost don't see a need to do an oil change. When I purchased the vehicle I changed the oil and filter using Mobil 1 esp 0w-30. While changing the oil I found a leak at the crank pulley so I replaced both the cam and crank front seals and now not a drop has leaked since. I have inspected the intercooler hose for oil and found nothing substantial other than a film. I think this thing is burning the oil almost as fast as I can put it in but with the DPF you would never know it because it never makes it to the exhaust tip. I am thinking that carbon build up on the oil rings may be causing this issue and was wondering if anyone has dug deeper into this motor for this reason and what did they find. My car is out of dieselgate warranty, probably the reason the previous owner sold the vehicle. I have done extensive reading and have found numerous owners with oil consumption but have yet to find a solution to the issue. I plan to do a compression check and leakdown test but I am not in any hurry because the car runs so good. Can carbon buildup be removed using spray chemicals in the intake like is recommended for direct injected gasoline engines, I did this on my 2013 F150 ecoboost and it seemed to work great, not sure if it would be safe on a high compression diesel though with DPF.

 

[oilhammer]

The vacuum pump exhausts into the engine. If there are any vacuum leaks in the system, it will cause an increase in oil consumption. Also, the breather regulator (part of the valve cover) may be bad.

The CKRA has had a lot of issues with turbochargers, they extended the warranty on them, but they usually fail suddenly and with no warning.

Compression check won't tell you anything useful. If it starts easy, runs good and strong, then the compression will be fine.

The CKRA also has an issue with the dipstick guide tube breaking, which can cause a false reading on the stick, leading you to think it is using more oil than it actually is, because you are overfilling it (extra oil will burn off faster through the ventilation system).

 

[eugene89us]

Your CKRA has a little more "experience" than mine - mine is at 120,000mi currently. Never had any oil consumption until I discovered ever-increasing leak of the valve cover than pooled in injector well. There was some leaking around the perimeter, but was very minor and most was sticking to the sides of the engine with minor contamination of exhaust manifold itself. Basically nothing that would show up on the bottom cover or leak on the ground. You have done pretty extensive work-up of the engine, I think most leaks have been found and removed (as oilhammer mentioned are usually valve cover, camshaft seals, and the oil galley that tend to leak as the engine ages). I was surprised to find so many 2015 models reporting sigificant oil consumption "within VW spec" that almost sounds ridiculous. Even my N47 diesel engine says that some consumption is acceptable, within spec.

Your consumption of 1 liter over 500 miles is too much. Now, I had a stupid idea with my BMW diesel to install an oil catch can, which ended up clogging and causing turbo seals to leak due to high crankcase pressures. Once I removed the dumb idea, the engine went back to zero oil consumption. These turbo seals are not "true seals" per-se, they help to keep oil away from themselves by flinging them, but if you overload then with oil backup, they will leak, either into intake or exhaust. Despite DPF, I saw some white smoke in my exhaust when I would start the car. This is what triggered me to connect OBD and monitor EGTs. Since turbo was discharging oil through exhaust side, it was burning in the DPF, causing EGTs to rise to regen temps and even higher. Interestingly, ECU never threw an MIL, though it did throw an info code about EGTs being higher than calculated. My EGTs (3 of them) run between 280 and 350C when non in regen, and goes up to 600C when regen. When I had the seal leak, it was running at 500 to 700C and regen status was at 0 (not active). Glad I noticed, it burned through a quart of oil when I diagnosed the issues, refilled the lost quart, removed the concoction, and got my car back to normal. No oil consumption ever since.

So maybe likely culprit is some sort of oil leak from turbo seals, possibly on exhaust side? Check the EGTs and make sure they are within spec. If you are leaking oil into exhaust, it will burn and raise EGTs. If you're leaking oil into intake, I am sure the car would otherwise throw a code, since diesels are so heavily fuel dependent. There will be some calculated vs measured error for fuel. Same as if you had a boost leak and had unmetered air, car is able to precisely calculate and throw an error for deviation. If everything else is bone dry, there has to be some internal consumption.

 

[RacingArcher]

Thanks for the replys guys, I don't think I have a turbo problem, The turbo was replaced under a recall warranty of some kind at 152,000 according to the previous owner and he gave me all the service records that show the new turbo, EGR, DPF and some other stuff. The old turbo failed and took a bunch of stuff with it. That doesn't mean that the new turbo isn't failing though, I will keep an eye on it.

The vacuum leak is interesting though, never thought that would make a difference. How would I go about checking? If it were a small block, I would just use starting fluid to find leaks, I am old fashioned, but not sure if that would be safe with a diesel.

I haven't found any additional oil leaks and monitoring the EGT's sounds helpful also, what did you connect to the OBD to get the readings?

I think the dip stick tube is OK, when I changed the oil and filter it took just under 5qts to get to the fill mark which seemed good to me.

 

[Tom in PT]

To get EGT readings, I use an ELM327 wifi adapter in the OBD11 port and a car scanner app on my phone, of which there are several available from the app store. EngineLink was a good one I use on my truck, you can configure all kinds of displays for various engine parameters such as EGTs, oil temps, coolant temp, engine load, throttle percentage, etc etc., as well a see and clear diagnostic codes. FWIW my '13 has never burned any oil at all, I have other issues with the car at 52,500 miles though.

 

[robco]

Have you been able to solve this issue. I have a 2013 tdi. I have replaced the valve cover and the turbo. Car runs great no smoke, no oil on exhaust tips. No check engine light. Using 2 quarts every 400 miles. I noticed there was a question about it starting hard. Mine sometimes turns over slow and takes several cranks to start. It is push button start. When it’s warm usually starts right up. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[turbobrick240]

Have you been able to solve this issue. I have a 2013 tdi. I have replaced the valve cover and the turbo. Car runs great no smoke, no oil on exhaust tips. No check engine light. Using 2 quarts every 400 miles. I noticed there was a question about it starting hard. Mine sometimes turns over slow and takes several cranks to start. It is push button start. When it’s warm usually starts right up. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I hope you're using cheap oil, lol. That motor is either leaking, worn out, or your second turbo is failing.

 

[robco]

Thank you so much turbobrick240, that was very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to give us all such helpful information that will be on here for years to help others troubleshoot their vehicles.

 

[turbobrick240]

No problemo. Are you still buying motor oil by the pallet?

 

[Dalon]

Have you been able to solve this issue. I have a 2013 tdi. I have replaced the valve cover and the turbo. Car runs great no smoke, no oil on exhaust tips. No check engine light. Using 2 quarts every 400 miles. I noticed there was a question about it starting hard. Mine sometimes turns over slow and takes several cranks to start. It is push button start. When it’s warm usually starts right up. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dumb question but are you positive it is not leaking anywhere? 1 quart every 200 miles seems like you would see some obvious signs if it was burning it (different color exhaust smoke, smell, etc). Oil cooler is a prominent issue on these cars...does the coolant look ok?

 

[jjblbi]

The rate of oil use sounds more like a leak than oil being burned. Have you pulled the belly pan and checked it for oil and investigated the car underneath?

Park in the same spot for a week or two and check the ground for drips. I thought I had a bad valve cover gasket when it was the cam seal. I procrastinated enough to rust proof my car with DelVac 1.

 

[robco]

Here is where I am at now. Took it to a reputable VW shop that charges Dealer prices! ( he did work at a dealer for years). He did the timing belt/ seals/ a sensor then wanted to replace the DPF for $3,000. So I brought it home and did a delete with Rawtek/tunezilla. It now starts faster, runs great but still burning oil but not as much. Smells like oil and fuel when driving it. Greyish blueish smoke at idle. Not a lot. Sometimes when you lay into it up a hill it smokes like crazy. Any ideas.

 

[robco]

I hear that a vacuum leak can cause this. How do you check that ?

 

[RacingArcher]

robco, Sorry I have not been here in awhile. I have not found the problem with my oil consumption issue. I am in the same boat, about 2 quarts every tank of fuel. I have also deleted mine using a Darkside Diesel kit and the runs fine with no issues just uses oil. I am still suspecting its due to carbon buildup, either on the valves or rings. I did do a compression test just to get the info and my results were 350-360psi on all cylinders, which isn't great but not horrible either which again leads me to carbon buildup. When I get more time or am forced to I will dig into it deeper and let you know here.

 

[Offrder]

Hey, Just caught up on this thread, first thing I noticed... youre using 0w30 oil in youre TDI?? thats super thin oil, should be using a "10w40 diesel oil" I personally use a 15W40 diesel amsoil, mainly because I get it free from work ;-) been a mechanic over 20 years so it helps having access to stuff. I think you should try changing your oil and run it for a full tank of gas and check back how that worked out for ya. And I have a 2012 TDI with 170K, and replaced everything but the bottom half of the engine trying to find the impossible oil leak that came from the little hole on the block with ball bearing... if ya dont know about it consider yourself lucky

 

[acsr477]

I too am having high oil consumption. 1 quart every tank of fuel. I thought it was carbon buildup as well. I have been using hotshots stiction eliminator for the last 10,000 miles and it has not helped. I suspected the rings we possibly stuck. My next quest is to look at the crank case vent valve. I have no leaks anywhere. My car is tuned with the Malone economy tune and rawtek exhaust. I’m right at 100,000 miles. I bought the car with 72,000 miles. Its oil usage has been like this since the purchase. My mpg is around 38. It starts and runs fine, slight smoke at startup only for a moment. I replaced injectors at 88,000. One was nailing really bad when cold.

My wife has a 2012, purchased it with 70,000 miles. Now it has 123,000, completely stock, it uses no oil and gets 42-44 mpg.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

I too am having high oil consumption. 1 quart every tank of fuel. I thought it was carbon buildup as well. I have been using hotshots stiction eliminator for the last 10,000 miles and it has not helped. I suspected the rings we possibly stuck. My next quest is to look at the crank case vent valve. I have no leaks anywhere. My car is tuned with the Malone economy tune and rawtek exhaust. I’m right at 100,000 miles. I bought the car with 72,000 miles. Its oil usage has been like this since the purchase. My mpg is around 38. It starts and runs fine, slight smoke at startup only for a moment. I replaced injectors at 88,000. One was nailing really bad when cold.

My wife has a 2012, purchased it with 70,000 miles. Now it has 123,000, completely stock, it uses no oil and gets 42-44 mpg.

Have you check the bottom on the intercooler to see if you have oil accumulated?

 

[acsr477]

Have you check the bottom on the intercooler to see if you have oil accumulated?
[/QUO
I have checked it. There is no oil in there besides a maybe 1/2 of a teaspoon.
From what I’ve read on the coolers, if they are bad there is a lot.

 

[Offrder]

I too am having high oil consumption. 1 quart every tank of fuel. I thought it was carbon buildup as well. I have been using hotshots stiction eliminator for the last 10,000 miles and it has not helped. I suspected the rings we possibly stuck. My next quest is to look at the crank case vent valve. I have no leaks anywhere. My car is tuned with the Malone economy tune and rawtek exhaust. I’m right at 100,000 miles. I bought the car with 72,000 miles. Its oil usage has been like this since the purchase. My mpg is around 38. It starts and runs fine, slight smoke at startup only for a moment. I replaced injectors at 88,000. One was nailing really bad when cold.

My wife has a 2012, purchased it with 70,000 miles. Now it has 123,000, completely stock, it uses no oil and gets 42-44 mpg.

Well in all fairness, driving habit makes a huge difference for MPG, i average 38mpg doing 70-75mph and ill get 46mpg doing 60mph.. but back to your consumption,
-what oil are you using?
-any oil on the pressure side of the turbo?
-check the black hard plastic hose coming out of the top of the valve cover going to throttlebody (its easily visable when ya open the hood) does it have oil build up around the ends, because thats 1 indication the egr valve has failed or failing (its built into the valve cover)
-you can do (or have done) a compression test, and a cylinder leak down test to determine if it is the piston rings.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

Usually the turbo seals go bad and oil gets pulled from the turbo and goes to the intake side.

Too much can cause a runaway.

 

[bifster]

just wondering if this went anywhere?
I have a 2014 now and similar issue. a liter every 600 kms
had some shaft play in the turbo so i pulled it apart and once inside i notice the exhaust side is dry but lots of carbon, so its obviously burning the oil rather than leaking it. i figured the turbo shaft was leaking.
same thing though, high egt temps in the 6-700s not in regen mode
so its definitely burning it vs pouring it out the turbo.

going to reassemble and try to test crankcase pressure and check vacuum pump for air leaks

 

[luke j]

Cam shaft, crank shaft seals leaking? Valve cover? You’re not burning oil it’s leaking somewhere? Oil hammer probably knows another spot as well.

 

[jjblbi]

Bifster,

First determine if your consumption is due to a leak vs. burning oil. Remove bottom engine cover and inspect for drips, thoroughly degrease the cover and pressure wash it. Check the engine and wipe any drips. Inspect the valve and timing belt covers for leaks. Degrease motor. Repeat after 200kms.

If you are over 300k kms and it is leaking, my bet is the cam seal and you might as well do the valve cover while you are in there. Good luck, John

 

[americanie2]

Hi all,
Having EXACT same issue with oil consumption. ZERO external oil leaks and adding about 1 quart every 200 miles. I bought Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L in bulk because of this issue. Car has 225,000 miles and has started experiencing more oil consumption around 90k, while still under some sort of VW warranty. I had to pay for an oil consumption test: they top off the oil, then put white-out on the dipstick, drain plug and filler cap so you don't open it and add/drain oil lol. They had me drive for 600 miles and come back. They said it was "within spec"... fast forward many miles and now it will run out of oil before it runs out of fuel. Brand new turbocharger, brand new injection pump, new injectors (pump failed and killed the injectors. THOROUGHLY cleaned all fuel lines, and passages and put all back together and changed the fuel filter 3 times (500 miles, 1000 and 1500 miles) and it has been running perfectly for the last 70,000 miles or so, but STILL drinking oil like crazy. I have a rawtek kit and malone tuner, so I definitely see blue/gray exhaust all the time, but I have not been able to pinpoint why this engine is using so much oil. Have any of you figured out a definitive reason for the excessive oil consumption? I am a mechanic by trade and have done all the repairs thus far by myself and have contemplated purchasing a low mileage LKQ engine just to swap it out so I don't have to check/add oil every morning in the garage. My wife drives this car and gets between 46-56 MPG on a constant basis.
Quick little story of the incredible MPGs. When we bought the car brand new, maybe a year later we drove it from central NJ down to the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Spent the week there, and drove back home.... still had some Diesel left in the tank. For that complete trip, we averaged 69.5 MPG and got OVER 1,000 miles on that single tank of Diesel. Drove no more than 65 MPH and took mostly local highways. Anyway, these cars are amazing, especially with the 6-speed manual transmission (which was NOT even covered by the Dieselgate settlement as the manual transmission cars were exempted due the fact that it could only meet the emissions standards 1 out of 3 times it was tested by the EPA. I got the original $500 dealership credit and the $500 gift card, but NOT the settlement amount of about $8,000. The only way to get that would have been to sell it back and I wanted to keep it.)
Anyway, if anyone has any input on the oil consumption I would love to hear. I will check into the vacuum return system. And, NO, the new turbo is not failing, as the oil consumption stayed the same before the turbo shaft snapped as it did after the replacement.
Many thanks in advance!!!!

 

[Offrder]

Hi all,
Having EXACT same issue with oil consumption. ZERO external oil leaks and adding about 1 quart every 200 miles. I bought Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L in bulk because of this issue. Car has 225,000 miles and has started experiencing more oil consumption around 90k, while still under some sort of VW warranty. I had to pay for an oil consumption test: they top off the oil, then put white-out on the dipstick, drain plug and filler cap so you don't open it and add/drain oil lol. They had me drive for 600 miles and come back. They said it was "within spec"... fast forward many miles and now it will run out of oil before it runs out of fuel. Brand new turbocharger, brand new injection pump, new injectors (pump failed and killed the injectors. THOROUGHLY cleaned all fuel lines, and passages and put all back together and changed the fuel filter 3 times (500 miles, 1000 and 1500 miles) and it has been running perfectly for the last 70,000 miles or so, but STILL drinking oil like crazy. I have a rawtek kit and malone tuner, so I definitely see blue/gray exhaust all the time, but I have not been able to pinpoint why this engine is using so much oil. Have any of you figured out a definitive reason for the excessive oil consumption? I am a mechanic by trade and have done all the repairs thus far by myself and have contemplated purchasing a low mileage LKQ engine just to swap it out so I don't have to check/add oil every morning in the garage. My wife drives this car and gets between 46-56 MPG on a constant basis.
Quick little story of the incredible MPGs. When we bought the car brand new, maybe a year later we drove it from central NJ down to the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Spent the week there, and drove back home.... still had some Diesel left in the tank. For that complete trip, we averaged 69.5 MPG and got OVER 1,000 miles on that single tank of Diesel. Drove no more than 65 MPH and took mostly local highways. Anyway, these cars are amazing, especially with the 6-speed manual transmission (which was NOT even covered by the Dieselgate settlement as the manual transmission cars were exempted due the fact that it could only meet the emissions standards 1 out of 3 times it was tested by the EPA. I got the original $500 dealership credit and the $500 gift card, but NOT the settlement amount of about $8,000. The only way to get that would have been to sell it back and I wanted to keep it.)
Anyway, if anyone has any input on the oil consumption I would love to hear. I will check into the vacuum return system. And, NO, the new turbo is not failing, as the oil consumption stayed the same before the turbo shaft snapped as it did after the replacement.
Many thanks in advance!!!!

With that many miles id bet its all blowby. Do a compression test and then an oil leakdown test. Rings are most likely all worn, and ya may even have 1 or more broken rings. Also 5w30 at this stage is a little on the thin side. You will get a slower oil loss with a 10w40 or 15w40. Write back with ya findings if ya test it!

 

[privateTDIjet]

anyone tested with ceratec? it dramatically slows consumption down in my cbea. never tried it for the ckra

 

[americanie2]

With that many miles id bet its all blowby. Do a compression test and then an oil leakdown test. Rings are most likely all worn, and ya may even have 1 or more broken rings. Also 5w30 at this stage is a little on the thin side. You will get a slower oil loss with a 10w40 or 15w40. Write back with ya findings if ya test it!

Thank you for the advice! Regarding the blow-by, that is definitely where I am heading, but it started when the engine had less than 100k miles. Broken ring a definite possibility... I didn't consider that. So, what I am going to try is the following to help reduce the oil consumption:
- Berryman Oil Change Flush 16oz, goes in the crankcase: going to use this in conjunction with the others below.
- Berryman B-12 Chemtool Fuel Injector Cleaner 15oz, going to remove the glow plugs and dial the pistons about midway and then put approx 3.5oz in each cylinder, let it sit overnight, hand crank engine or use vacuum pump to remove any remaining liquid, then key crank it a few times and then put glow plugs back in and fire it up.
- AC Delco Top Engine Cleaner 32oz, part #s 10-3015 and 19355198, actually going to try this first. Spoke to a local GM tech and he says his techs in the shop swear by it for carbon removal. Going to do the same procedure as the Berryman B-12.
- Change oil/filter approx 500 miles after procedure.
I'll try and get around to this on Saturday or Sunday. I'll post my results, but it will take some time as I want to make sure that I have accurate readings on the dipstick vs miles.
Again, just wanted to say thank you for all the advice and help. Much appreciated.

 

[americanie2]

With that many miles id bet its all blowby. Do a compression test and then an oil leakdown test. Rings are most likely all worn, and ya may even have 1 or more broken rings. Also 5w30 at this stage is a little on the thin side. You will get a slower oil loss with a 10w40 or 15w40. Write back with ya findings if ya test it!

Considering the Rawtek components, I will try upping it to 15w40 Kirkland Synthetic Blend and see what happens. I have a lot of this in my shop as I do quite a bit of Diesel work for a handful of customers (mostly Ford 6.0/7.3 and Duramax 6.6, with the occasional Cummins 6.7).

 

[jjblbi]

If you are leaning towards stuck rings or carbon build up, Yamaha has a good aerosol marine combustion chamber cleaner.