CJAA performance cam

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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Does anyone know if there is any performance camshafts available for a 2011 Jetta TDI engine code CJAA? I have searched relentlessly for a week and so far have not come up with anyone who will do a custom grind.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
How have you decided that one of the two camshafts is a holdup in making more power out of the engine? How much power are you making right now? Have you looked at the ports in the head? How much more valve opening can the engine tolerate?
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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I don't know if either cam is holding up power. Several of my rocker arms failed and scarred the cam so I am looking for options to replace them. Why go back with stock parts if you can go bigger?
 
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scdevon

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That's the first i've heard of a 2.0 CR having cam and cam follower wear problems other than maybe a fatal timing bellt failure with piston-to-valve collision.
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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That's the first i've heard of a 2.0 CR having cam and cam follower wear problems other than maybe a fatal timing bellt failure with piston-to-valve collision.
I had several rocker arms fail and they scarred the cam in the process.

I may be able to get my hands on the specs for performance regrind camshafts. I'll see if I can find some place to do the regrind.
 

scdevon

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I had several rocker arms fail and they scarred the cam in the process.
Do you have any pics of the damage? I'm assuming that you run good synthetic oil at the proper intervals. I'm wondering if there might be an oil supply problem to the top end of the engine, but there would most likely have been hydraulic tappet noise from lack of oil pressure if that were the case. The top end of these engines have been generally pretty solid so far. Is there any cam bearing wear? I'm curious about your failure.

Anyway, the specs on the stock cams are pretty decent. I'm not sure what kind of additional horsepower you're looking to make if any, but maybe just a stock replacement is the way to go for now until there are more performance cam options available. These "ring cams" aren't the easiest design to work with as far as aftermarket performance options.
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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No of was all operator error. I got in too much of a hurry and didn't double check the cam timing. The timing was off a little when I put it back together and I think I may have adjusted the it the wrong direction. :mad:
 
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Dirtracr95

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How have you decided that one of the two camshafts is a holdup in making more power out of the engine? How much power are you making right now? Have you looked at the ports in the head? How much more valve opening can the engine tolerate?
He's gtb2260. Cams would be a very good idea to push the powerband up where the turbo lives.
 

A5INKY

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...These "ring cams" aren't the easiest design to work with as far as aftermarket performance options.
Indeed. I recently had a conversation with one of our performance cam vendors about these. He was of the mind that the CR cam's design being what it is, regrinding like what happens for the performance cams we have for older TDIs is not going to be viable. The heat and forces placed on the cam during regrind can allow the lobes to move on the shaft. Might be awhile (if ever) before we have options for this reason. The other thing keeping this from happening is that the CRs don't have cam issues like what drove development for PD cams. It's not broke, no need to fix it.
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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Originally Posted by scdevon
...These "ring cams" aren't the easiest design to work with as far as aftermarket performance options.
Indeed. I recently had a conversation with one of our performance cam vendors about these. He was of the mind that the CR cam's design being what it is, regrinding like what happens for the performance cams we have for older TDIs is not going to be viable. The heat and forces placed on the cam during regrind can allow the lobes to move on the shaft. Might be awhile (if ever) before we have options for this reason. The other thing keeping this from happening is that the CRs don't have cam issues like what drove development for PD cams. It's not broke, no need to fix it.
A performance regrind has been done by at least one other person so it is possible to do.
 

scdevon

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A performance regrind has been done by at least one other person so it is possible to do.
Oh, yeah. It's totally possible, just not as easy or as cheap as with conventional solid iron cams. Clearly VW engineers were looking to reduce the mass and therefore the total rotational mass of conventional iron cams in the CR engines so they went with these lightweight ring cams.

Not only that, the long term aftermarket performance demand for CR engines is now in question with this emissions scandle B.S. Would-be aftermarket developers are now probably pausing a bit to see if there's a mass buy-back by VW to remove massive quantities of these cars from the road or if they will be fixed by VW and kept on the road. High performance people usually don't care about emissions anyhow especially in emission friedly states, but there's still a chance that many of these cars will simply "go away" and be crushed.

Thanks for the update!
 

oilhammer

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Looks like 5 cams have been reground by Colt Cams. I have found 1 of them is for sale. I hope to get my hands one it soon!

That is strange, as that engine has TWO camshafts. You'd think they'd do them in pairs, and there would always be TWO for sale. I guess one cam could make half the extra power that two would.

These do not use intake and exhaust specific cams (I'm sure you knew that, though).
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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That is strange, as that engine has TWO camshafts. You'd think they'd do them in pairs, and there would always be TWO for sale. I guess one cam could make half the extra power that two would.
These do not use intake and exhaust specific cams (I'm sure you knew that, though).
Yes 5 sets. I'm still not used to referring to two cams.
 
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Buckwild90

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Yes 5 sets. I'm still not used to referring to two cams.

Man I love to finally see someone on a true quest for power out of mk6s. If you can ever get a good dyno let us know how much performance increase you see. As you continue to find power running the 2260 and upgrading other parts it shows me that 2260 is the way to go instead of 2566. I just want to be able to jack the NA v8 gassers when they get cocky. Seems you are building a recipe
 
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turbobrick240

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Man I love to finally see someone on a true quest f. power out of mk6s. If you can ever get a good dyno let us know how much performance increase you see. As you continue to find power running the 2260 and upgrading other parts it shows me that 2260 is the way to go instead of 2566. I just want to be able to jack the NA v8 gassers when they get cocky. Seems you are building a eecipe
Good luck with that. The NA V8's are making north of 400 hp stock these days.
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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Good luck with that. The NA V8's are making north of 400 hp stock these days.
I could almost keep up with a programmed 360+ HP v8 up to 80 mph before I started to run out of fuel with the stock HPFP. Can't wait to see what it runs like with good ported heads. This setup will give them a run for there money at slower speeds at least.
As you continue to find power running the 2260 and upgrading other parts it shows me that 2260 is the way to go instead of 2566.
The GTB2260 is only good for 310 HP in optimal conditions. Curious to see what I can get out of it.
 

turbobrick240

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I could almost keep up with a programmed 360+ HP v8 up to 80 mph before I started to run out of fuel with the stock HPFP. Can't wait to see what it runs like with good ported heads. This setup will give them a run for there money at slower speeds at least.
The GTB2260 is only good for 310 HP in optimal conditions. Curious to see what I can get out of it.
Right on. I'd love to see what kind of quarter mile times your car can lay down once everything is well tuned. I'd think mid to low 13's should be pretty attainable. I believe TurboJohan here has a pretty sick mk6 build also.
 

oilhammer

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Early on there seemed to be a lot of high hopes for the 16v CR engine in the power mod department. But then once a few folks got one apart and saw how tiny and convoluted the cylinder head ports are, they started to have second thoughts.

I am sort of objectively watching with interest, and I still hope for the best. I think running more boost and more fuel will probably be the key here, as it is on the 4 valve heads in other manufacturers' engines.

The question always comes down to how much can the rest of the engine, and to a greater degree, the car handle. I remember years ago being at a drag strip when an A1 GTI was kickin' ass and takin' names with its turbocharged 16v 2.0L gasser (it was a seriously quick little car). Until it broke its 020 transmission case IN HALF when the weakest link between the engine and the tires had enough. Literally threw the differential out against the steering rack. It was an awesome sight. :eek: And this was after they went through about a half dozen CV axle versions before they found one that didn't twist into a pretzel on launch.
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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Early on there seemed to be a lot of high hopes for the 16v CR engine in the power mod department. But then once a few folks got one apart and saw how tiny and convoluted the cylinder head ports are, they started to have second thoughts.
I am sort of objectively watching with interest, and I still hope for the best. I think running more boost and more fuel will probably be the key here, as it is on the 4 valve heads in other manufacturers' engines.
A ported head, oversized valves, and performance camshafts should go a long way in the power department. The vortex effect in these heads are a big blockage point in making more power.
The question always comes down to how much can the rest of the engine, and to a greater degree, the car handle. I remember years ago being at a drag strip when an A1 GTI was kickin' ass and takin' names with its turbocharged 16v 2.0L gasser (it was a seriously quick little car).
Doubt I'll get any good 1/4 mile time. I'd need a set of slicks to do this power justice and then every thing else would start tearing up.
 

Buckwild90

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Good luck with that. The NA V8's are making north of 400 hp stock these days.

The factory hopped up versions are yes. But most people are driving around 35000 dollar base models stock. Base camaro is like 318hp at the flywheel. And weighs about 3800 lbs, without driver, so power to weight ratios are very close for an mk6 pushing 250whp+, it's more or less the shock value off them not pulling away from you and them wondering why they spent so much money. Of course I don't expect my car to ever stay with a supercharged hell cat challenger or a gt500 mustang. If I broke into the 13s in the quarter and can get 45mpg on the highway then my goals are met. DSG equipped cars have shorter gearing so I believe my goals to be possible even though I am jealous of the taller geared manauls better MPG
 

Buckwild90

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A ported head, oversized valves, and performance camshafts should go a long way in the power department. The vortex effect in these heads are a big blockage point in making more power.

Doubt I'll get any good 1/4 mile time. I'd need a set of slicks to do this power justice and then every thing else would start tearing up.

Have you heard of wavetrac differentials, they use some technology no one else is using in their differentials that may help you get more hook up out of the hole. Tires definitely effect 1/4 mile times though. Keep on keeping on brother
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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If I broke into the 13s in the quarter and can get 45mpg on the highway then my goals are met. DSG equipped cars have shorter gearing so I believe my goals to be possible even though I am jealous of the taller geared manauls better MPG
With the GTB2260 and stock HPFP I'd make 45 mpg @ 80 mph on road trips. 50 mpg @ slower speeds is easily attained. Than again this is a manual trans. Have not been on any road trips since cp3 install so don't know yet how it will affect mpg. They say the cp3 takes less power to run then the cp4.1. I'll probably lose some mpgs though with ported heads. Quess we'll soon find out soon if that vortex effect does anything for mpg.
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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Have you heard of wavetrac differentials, they use some technology no one else is using in their differentials that may help you get more hook up out of the hole. Tires definitely effect 1/4 mile times though. Keep on keeping on brother
Maybe next time I have to pull the transmission I can look into a new diff. So far I have been more focused on increasing top end power as these syncros don't like 1/4 mile runs with an SMF. I've had to replace them once already.
 

shortysclimbin

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IMO the GTB2060VKLR is an amazing turbo on these cars for those not looking to loose low end spool. It was a nice stage 3++ for me prior to everyone putting cr170s on. The GTB2260 is slightly (~100rpm) slower spool than the GTB2060VKLR, but had slightly better upper end. We are still finding the turbo is too small once the fueling system is upgraded (boost creep)! This leaves me to lean to thinking that even a 2260 isn't big enough for these blocks. Ryan's Hybrids, or maybe that 2566 might be moving in the right direction. Optionally, the turbo is sized right, but what is happening is the headflow is making the turbo push air through a straw.

I'd like to see a dyno after the headwork, and will put down my guess of 305whp after this work is done. (this is assuming the tune is adjusted for the rpm and fueling tweaked a bit)
___________________________________
Transmission wise I had a wavetrack in my 02S... IMO go with a pelequin, I have had both and loved the Pelequin more. Also, Id suggest the to transmission braces that darkside offers. I'm not a huge fan of the wearable bearing design and manual adjustment for the shaft support, but it will save syncros... a ratcheting roller bearing design would be amazing, but not enough people are breaking these to justify that complicated of a design.
 

UFO (under fueled oiler)

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IMO the GTB2060VKLR is an amazing turbo on these cars for those not looking to loose low end spool. It was a nice stage 3++ for me prior to everyone putting cr170s on. The GTB2260 is slightly (~100rpm) slower spool than the GTB2060VKLR, but had slightly better upper end. We are still finding the turbo is too small once the fueling system is upgraded (boost creep)! This leaves me to lean to thinking that even a 2260 isn't big enough for these blocks. Ryan's Hybrids, or maybe that 2566 might be moving in the right direction. Optionally, the turbo is sized right, but what is happening is the headflow is making the turbo push air through a straw.

I'd like to see a dyno after the headwork, and will put down my guess of 305whp after this work is done. (this is assuming the tune is adjusted for the rpm and fueling tweaked a bit)
Ya my thoughts to on boost creep. If I make 300 HP I'll be happy.
___________________________________
Transmission wise I had a wavetrack in my 02S... IMO go with a pelequin, I have had both and loved the Pelequin more. Also, Id suggest the to transmission braces that darkside offers. I'm not a huge fan of the wearable bearing design and manual adjustment for the shaft support, but it will save syncros... a ratcheting roller bearing design would be amazing, but not enough people are breaking these to justify that complicated of a design.
Do you have a link for those transmission braces? I'm not finding them.
 

Buckwild90

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With the GTB2260 and stock HPFP I'd make 45 mpg @ 80 mph on road trips. 50 mpg @ slower speeds is easily attained. Than again this is a manual trans. Have not been on any road trips since cp3 install so don't know yet how it will affect mpg. They say the cp3 takes less power to run then the cp4.1. I'll probably lose some mpgs though with ported heads. Quess we'll soon find out soon if that vortex effect does anything for mpg.
Running a 215/55/17 I can get 47 at 70mph and like 43 at 80mph on a good hot 95° day. Before running 225/45/17 I was lucky to get 42 at 80mph. This is completely stock undeleted exhaust. The dsg 6th gear is .756 vs .716 6spm, and differential is 3.04 vs 6spm 2.76, I'm really hoping that when I upgraded the diff I can get it with taller gearing. As far as the cp3, from what I read on other thrreads, people actually saw a 1-3mpg gain when they switched to the cp3 because apparently it flowing more fuel, it has less resistance in the fuel system and keepsee rail pressure higher, basically the same reason it also increases your power with big turbos. Even with vw's claimed vortex porting swirl, I think a better breathing head equalling a better breathing engine and the turbo not having to work as hard will increase fuel economy. Keep us in the loop as you know more.
 

turbobrick240

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The factory hopped up versions are yes. But most people are driving around 35000 dollar base models stock. . Base camaro is like 318hp at the flywheel. And weighs about 3800 lbs, without driver, so power to weight ratios are very close for an mk6 pushing 250whp+, it's more or less the shock value off them not pulling away from you and them wondering why they spent so much money. Of course I don't expect my car to ever stay with a supercharged hell cat challenger or a gt500 mustang. If I broke into the 13s in the quarter and can get 45mpg on the highway then my goals are met. DSG equipped cars have shorter gearing so I believe my goals to be possible even though I am jealous of the taller geared manauls better MPG
The base camaro these days is a V6 with 320 hp. Pretty impressive. You can get the base model for $26k. The V8 makes 420 hp stock. Similar situation with the Mustang. Neither will get you anywhere near 40 mpg though.
 
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