CJ-4 oil data and discussion repository

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
wjdell said:
Does Amsoil make a a Ea0 for the ALH -- that would be my next move BOB. Did you see what George showed by switching to Ea0 - a drop of 4 numbers 18/17/15 to 14/13/11 in oil cleanliness. IIRC. You are right up there at the top and your history shows its not a fluke. The only way I can see you making any improvement would be by superior filtering, Ea0 or by -pass.
I think all Amsoil makes for ALHs is the air filter, no oil filters:(
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Looking at TBN for D1 ESP, it starts at 10.1, and my 10K UOA show it at 6.32. 40% of the TBN is gone! Can't go much past 10K then... isn't 50% kinda the magic number?
 
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OilGuy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
Bob_Fout said:
Looking at TBN for D1 ESP, it starts at 10.1, and my 10K UOA show it at 6.32. 40% of the TBN is gone! Can't go much past 10K then... isn't 50% kinda the magic number?
No it's not the magic number (though maybe a good idea to be aware of it dropping below 50%) One can go well below 50%, but even so, TBN-related corrosive wear is not likely a drain limiting issue for TDIs.

There are 2 different TBN tests as well. One for the data sheet (D2896), and one that most UOA labs use (D4739). The latter will always test lower, even with brand new oil (it focuses on the longer lasting TBN retention ability of the oil vs including some of the more quickly used up TBN that D2896 measures. Don't know why they confuse everybody with 2 different tests, but it helps to know why the test results for the same oil sample would generate 2 different numbers.
 

silverbox

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Location
Halifax Nova Scotia
TDI
jetta wagon 2003 silver
Wow it's good to see Esso XD3 0w30 and 0w40 are now CJ4. these are quite inexpensive in Canada. IIRC they had a ton of calcium in the old CI4+ formulation. I wonder what the chemists have done to them.
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
silverbox the additive levels have dropped and the base oii has improved. use with confidence.

Bob - your TBN is the least of your worries - you have no worries - You just need to watch for coolant in the future. That will be the only thing that would harm your ALH at this point.
 

D-Roc

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Edmonton
TDI
None
silverbox said:
Wow it's good to see Esso XD3 0w30 and 0w40 are now CJ4. these are quite inexpensive in Canada. IIRC they had a ton of calcium in the old CI4+ formulation. I wonder what the chemists have done to them.
Where are you finding the Esso XD3? I was at Wal-Mart and they had the XD3 0W40 CJ4 and it was $35.14 for a 4L...a year ago it was @22.96.:eek:
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
D-Roc said:
Where are you finding the Esso XD3? I was at Wal-Mart and they had the XD3 0W40 CJ4 and it was $35.14 for a 4L...a year ago it was @22.96.:eek:
I read long ago that UFA sells a synthetic 0w40 which is relabeled Esso XD-3. So check out United Farmers of Alberta and report back.
 

silverbox

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Location
Halifax Nova Scotia
TDI
jetta wagon 2003 silver
D-Roc said:
Where are you finding the Esso XD3? I was at Wal-Mart and they had the XD3 0W40 CJ4 and it was $35.14 for a 4L...a year ago it was @22.96.:eek:
I guess this is the price of progress, up until recently it was CI4+ it is now CJ4
Better additives and base stocks? Or was it priced too low last year?
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
base oil had to improve to meet wear of CI4+ with less additves - we also see that additve packs changed. Get used to it from what I understand CI4+ will no longer be bottled after 2010.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
Lex4TDI4Life said:
are all CJ-4 oils Group IV?
Absolutely not. Most of them are conventional, not synthetic. The synthetic ones are Group III or IV, don't know about any Group V.
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
Drivbiwire said:






What is the maximum temperature a Group II conventional oil can handle?

Obviously the BS factor has you guys baffled, FWIW "Hydrocracking" is also known as the conversion process that produces "Conventional" oils ONLY thus resulting in usable products from Crude oil and are NOT synthetic in any respect.

This oil is a basic conventional and not even in the ballpark of a dumbed down Group III much less a Group IV PAO.

I wouldn't run that cr@p in my lawnmower much less a modern HSDI engine like the TDI!

DB
there is a VW OEM dino 15W-40 that's 505.00. Saw it in Europe. so you think Delvac 15W-40 or any other equivalent won't meet 505.00 ?
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
Dimitri16V said:
there is a VW OEM dino 15W-40 that's 505.00. Saw it in Europe. so you think Delvac 15W-40 or any other equivalent won't meet 505.00 ?
Who cares? I wouldn't put any dino 15w40 in my TDI, no matter which specs it might meet.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Updated Redline TBN and Ash per e-mail convo with Dave at Redline.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Location
Chicagoland
TDI
2004 golf
I guess DBW thinks that our TDIs are SOOOOO much harder and stressful on the oil than all the ford powerstrokes, which run just fine on 15w-40 made for them. Work trucks, haulers, vehicles that are overloaded and abused brutally, etc.

That being said... i still wouldnt use a 15w-40.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
Revolutionary_mind said:
I guess DBW thinks that our TDIs are SOOOOO much harder and stressful on the oil than all the ford powerstrokes, which run just fine on 15w-40 made for them. Work trucks, haulers, vehicles that are overloaded and abused brutally, etc.

That being said... i still wouldnt use a 15w-40.
Two factors here...

One, a 0wXX or 5wXX diesel-rated synthetic oil will produce less wear during cold starts than a 15wXX, conventional or synthetic.

And two, the piston rings on TDIs are closer to the top of the piston, closer to the intense heat of combustion, than on other harder-working engines. Synthetic oil with a high flash point is necessary, not optional.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Location
Chicagoland
TDI
2004 golf
Agreed, I definetly wouldnt run the 15w40 stuff in any type of cold weather, even if they claim its good down to 20, I wouldnt use it anything under 50.

I totally understand the ring position... that being said, I still think a good heavy duty 15w40 would be fine on a well maintained TDI.
 

lovemybug

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2002 Red Beetle
I'm still running DEO in my car. Haven't had any problems with it and it uses very little oil over the 10k mile change interval So little, in fact, that I've never had to add any. Over 60k miles running DEO, and it's still running strong.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Do you have UOAs too? That would be great.

That's the lower NOACK working for ya ;) Euro oils have enjoyed it for quite a while.
 

lovemybug

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2002 Red Beetle
No UOA's but been changing it about every 10k miles. Good compression on it when I had the timing belt done. That's what Jason said, anyhow. One of these time's I'll get it tested just to see how the engine is doing.


Bob_Fout said:
Do you have UOAs too? That would be great.

That's the lower NOACK working for ya ;) Euro oils have enjoyed it for quite a while.
 

damnyankee

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Location
Houston, TX.
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
aNUT said:
Were clearly missing the forest for the trees here.



I mean - It's the official motor oil of NASCAR! What more do we need???

Seeing how NASCAR mandates FLAT TAPPET cams, it would seem we need nothing else!
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Folks,

Should I be concerned about the difference in flash point of D1 ESP (249*C) vs. that of Amsoil DEO (226*C)? (I recently changed from D1 ESP to Amsoil DEO)

Seems most are around 220*C to 230*C, which the exception of D1 ESP and Redline.
 
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