CJ-4 oil data and discussion repository

OilGuy

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CJ-4 defines a minimum hurdle. How far (or if) an oil exceeds the minimum hurdle is harder to find data to support.
 

ducatiz

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Passat SEL 2012
OilGuy said:
CJ-4 defines a minimum hurdle. How far (or if) an oil exceeds the minimum hurdle is harder to find data to support.
can't you just ask the manufacturer? :rolleyes:
 

hskrdu

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Bob_Fout said:
Based on what criteria? IIRC no single one of them can be used to determine which oil is better. They all meet CJ-4 and are all pretty close in their properties.:p
No, to clarify, I mean that many of us look at the chart and then need to search for an interpretation of the data. A simple note that helps us compare or interpret the numbers would make the chart more user friendly.
 

Bob_Fout

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hskrdu said:
No, to clarify, I mean that many of us look at the chart and then need to search for an interpretation of the data. A simple note that helps us compare or interpret the numbers would make the chart more user friendly.
Ah, something that explains what the different criteria mean?
 

hskrdu

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Right, and how to compare the numbers. In other words, when you look at the data, it has immediate value to you. When I look at it, I have to search each item for 20 minutes to figure out what it means, or what value the number holds.
 

Bob_Fout

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I just pulled an oil sample at 5K on D1 ESP CJ-4, will send in for analysis.

hksrdu I've not forgotten about the labels for ya.
 

OilGuy

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Blue_Hen_TDI said:
TDT CJ-4 is now available at Pep Boys in quarts for $6.49. Here's a pic of what I bought tonight:
Just saw the 1 gal jug of CJ-4 M1TDT at Wally World yesterday.
 

TornadoRed

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hskrdu said:
Right, and how to compare the numbers. In other words, when you look at the data, it has immediate value to you. When I look at it, I have to search each item for 20 minutes to figure out what it means, or what value the number holds.
I have a little more familiarity with what each property is, and which values are better or worse. None of the oils in that chart are much different from the others, so there is no way to take that data and calculate which oil is best. Some would say that the M1 TDT, with the slightly higher total base number (10.7), makes it the top choice. Since it's already the oil I use, I don't see any reason to change.

Viscosity Index (VI) is a measure of how much the viscosity changes with temperature. Higher is better, but the differences between the best and the worst in this chart aren't terribly significant.
 

Bob_Fout

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TR, I think he's wanting the definitions of each of the various properties. Pour point, NOACK, ash, etc. etc.
 

TornadoRed

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Bob_Fout said:
TR, I think he's wanting the definitions of each of the various properties. Pour point, NOACK, ash, etc. etc.
He can find that anywhere. The Oil Analyzers website is a good place to start.
 

fitzski

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Ottawa
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Uh... hmm... Well, none...
VOA results for Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W40 (CJ-4)


Not sure if the add pack numbers jive with what we're seeing in the UOA's, i.e. P, Zn, and Mg.
 

wjdell

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They really thinned it down, 13 vis. Are you going to use this oil in the passat or one of the Jetta's.
 

fitzski

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Uh... hmm... Well, none...
wjdell said:
They really thinned it down, 13 vis. Are you going to use this oil in the passat or one of the Jetta's.
It's in the W8. A 13 vis makes it a bit short of a 40 weight... have to see how it holds up. I'll do a 5k mile UOA for sure.

This stuff seems to be all over the map... VOA vis was 13... Bob saw 14 after 5k, Mark is better than 16 after 15k... wth?!

Compare the VOA additive numbers to Bob or Mark's UOAs, though:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2224246&postcount=641
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1206647#Post1206647
 
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wjdell

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Maybe its not all over - 13 @ VOA - 14.4 @ 5k and 16 @ 15k. Maybe its by design, we know so little about CJ4 at this point. Or, it is a new oil and maybe the batches are running inconsistant. Mobil will get it worked out in time if it its. As for yours, 13 is closer to what VW wants anyway.
 

aNUT

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Were clearly missing the forest for the trees here.



I mean - It's the official motor oil of NASCAR! What more do we need???
 

Bob_Fout

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aNUT said:
Were clearly missing the forest for the trees here.



I mean - It's the official motor oil of NASCAR! What more do we need???
I never knew NASCAR ran CJ-4!
 

comp

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eville In.,,,,USA
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none yet
aNUT said:
Were clearly missing the forest for the trees here.



I mean - It's the official motor oil of NASCAR! What more do we need???

LOL LOL go to Joe Gibbs oil site and read a little :D
 

MrMopar

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AndyH said:
What are the implications of formulating CJ-4 oils with the new chemical restrictions?

Sulfur limit of 0.4% minimizes the possibility to use higher sulfur Group I stocks. Reduction in sulfated ash directly reduces allowable detergent TBN levels that may affect marketing claims and potentially reduced oil drain intervals, assuming all other factors remain the same.
So, for my vehicles that use a diesel motor oil, does this mean that the change interval should be shortened given that TBN numbers have the potential to be lower? How will this affect vehicles prior to MY2007 which do not specifically require a CJ-4 rated oil? Will CI-4 oils stay on the market, and can these CI-4 oils be used in a newer vehicle to maintain the robust oil change interval?
 

Lex4TDI4Life

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very very interesting. my UOA for Elf 507 was not stellar and I think low virgin TBN might have something to do with it, although others have had greater success.

I am going to try the new Mobil 1 TDT CJ-4 and pull a sample at 7500.

MrMopar said:
So, for my vehicles that use a diesel motor oil, does this mean that the change interval should be shortened given that TBN numbers have the potential to be lower? How will this affect vehicles prior to MY2007 which do not specifically require a CJ-4 rated oil? Will CI-4 oils stay on the market, and can these CI-4 oils be used in a newer vehicle to maintain the robust oil change interval?
 

fitzski

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Uh... hmm... Well, none...
wjdell said:
Maybe its not all over - 13 @ VOA - 14.4 @ 5k and 16 @ 15k. Maybe its by design, we know so little about CJ4 at this point. Or, it is a new oil and maybe the batches are running inconsistant. Mobil will get it worked out in time if it its. As for yours, 13 is closer to what VW wants anyway.
Note that the spec sheet sets viscosity @ 100C at 14.7; TBN is right on the money (10.1, per specs).
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_ESP_5W-40.asp
 
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Bob_Fout

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wjdell

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I noticed and the first UOA I have shows it as 14.1 @ 6800 miles, the range being 13.5 to 14.5. I would not worry about the oil testing 13 - its thick enough for any VW engine. Its seems that VI improvers are most of the ash.
 

AndyH

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MrMopar said:
So, for my vehicles that use a diesel motor oil, does this mean that the change interval should be shortened given that TBN numbers have the potential to be lower? How will this affect vehicles prior to MY2007 which do not specifically require a CJ-4 rated oil? Will CI-4 oils stay on the market, and can these CI-4 oils be used in a newer vehicle to maintain the robust oil change interval?
These aren't designed to be extended drain interval oils, so you're back to using UOA to set an interval that works for the oil you're using.

CJ-4 is designed to be backward compatible so it's supposed to work at least as well as CI-4+.

CI-4+ is staying on the market because of both lower price and longer drain interval capability for those engines that don't have particulate filters.

Andy
 

Bob_Fout

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Latest UOA from my Jetta. 10K miles on Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 (CJ-4) with Sprint 520s and an 18 PSI tune. I don't drive gently either.

 

TornadoRed

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I think it would run great on any good 5w40. The oil you use didn't have anything to do with the low soot numbers.
 

Bob_Fout

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TornadoRed said:
I think it would run great on any good 5w40. The oil you use didn't have anything to do with the low soot numbers.
I know. That's probably due to my nozzles, tune and additives.
 

wjdell

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Does Amsoil make a a Ea0 for the ALH -- that would be my next move BOB. Did you see what George showed by switching to Ea0 - a drop of 4 numbers 18/17/15 to 14/13/11 in oil cleanliness. IIRC. You are right up there at the top and your history shows its not a fluke. The only way I can see you making any improvement would be by superior filtering, Ea0 or by -pass.
 
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